Newcastle United Finances - 2008 Accounts Recently Filed

[madras]

Has anyone mentioned Daldlish's master stroke of Pistone for £4.5m?

some may mention paul kitson or carl cort or viana as other managers mistakes.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Has anyone mentioned Daldlish's master stroke of Pistone for £4.5m?

some may mention paul kitson or carl cort or viana as other managers mistakes.

 

No one will mention Kitson.

 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Has anyone mentioned Daldlish's master stroke of Pistone for £4.5m?

some may mention paul kitson or carl cort or viana as other managers mistakes.

 

No one will mention Kitson.

 

 

£2.25m, sold for £2.3m

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Has anyone mentioned Daldlish's master stroke of Pistone for £4.5m?

some may mention paul kitson or carl cort or viana as other managers mistakes.

 

No one will mention Kitson.

 

 

£2.25m, sold for £2.3m

 

But absolute shite all the same.

[Robster]

 

But absolute shite all the same.

I bet on him to score a hat-trick in that home FA Cup tie against Swansea. I think the mans a legend 

[ToonTastic]

Has anyone mentioned Daldlish's master stroke of Pistone for £4.5m?

some may mention paul kitson or carl cort or viana as other managers mistakes.

 

No one will mention Kitson.

 

 

£2.25m, sold for £2.3m

 

But absolute s**** all the same.

 

Wasn't that bad really, was ok at Everton as well. Remember we had Pearce to fill in at left back as well while he was there so least we had a decent player and cover.

[indi]

Has anyone mentioned Daldlish's master stroke of Pistone for £4.5m?

some may mention paul kitson or carl cort or viana as other managers mistakes.

 

No one will mention Kitson.

 

 

£2.25m, sold for £2.3m

 

But absolute s**** all the same.

 

Wasn't that bad really, was ok at Everton as well. Remember we had Pearce to fill in at left back as well while he was there so least we had a decent player and cover.

 

 

Pearce would probably have done a better job.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We are talking about Paul Kitson, aren't we?

[ToonTastic]

Oops misread the quote sorry.

[stalker]

Can't be bothered to read the entire thing but £17.8 million of our £20million pre tax loss is the down valuing of players as assets on the clubs books. I know this is perfectly legal but am I right in thinking therefore in real money outgoings the pretax loss is only about £3 million quid?

 

And am I also right in thinking that even as the original poster says that these are the costs spread over the players contracts that their whole original costs are already included in the debts?

 

[quayside]

Can't be bothered to read the entire thing but £17.8 million of our £20million pre tax loss is the down valuing of players as assets on the clubs books. I know this is perfectly legal but am I right in thinking therefore in real money outgoings the pretax loss is only about £3 million quid?

 

And am I also right in thinking that even as the original poster says that these are the costs spread over the players contracts that their whole original costs are already included in the debts?

 

 

In real money (ie cash) the loss for the year was the amount of money Ashley had to put in to keep the club going - £30 million. And that sum included very little invested in players, it was mostly just to make sure the club could pay the players and meet its minimum financial commitments.

[UV]

Can't be bothered to read the entire thing but £17.8 million of our £20million pre tax loss is the down valuing of players as assets on the clubs books. I know this is perfectly legal but am I right in thinking therefore in real money outgoings the pretax loss is only about £3 million quid?

 

And am I also right in thinking that even as the original poster says that these are the costs spread over the players contracts that their whole original costs are already included in the debts?

 

 

In real money (ie cash) the loss for the year was the amount of money Ashley had to put in to keep the club going - £30 million. And that sum included very little invested in players, it was mostly just to make sure the club could pay the players and meet its minimum financial commitments.

 

Is the net debt included in the accounts? If so is the change in net debt not a truer reflection of the actual monetary loss in a year? Is part of that £30m held as working capital sat in a bank collecting interest (replacing the overdraft facility we had)? Can anyone PM me a link to the accounts so I don't have to keep asking questions?

 

(Before anyone says it I realise there's a need to have working capital, and am not suggesting we can just go out and spend it on players, I'm just curious about where the money Ashley's put in has gone)

[quayside]

Can't be bothered to read the entire thing but £17.8 million of our £20million pre tax loss is the down valuing of players as assets on the clubs books. I know this is perfectly legal but am I right in thinking therefore in real money outgoings the pretax loss is only about £3 million quid?

 

And am I also right in thinking that even as the original poster says that these are the costs spread over the players contracts that their whole original costs are already included in the debts?

 

 

In real money (ie cash) the loss for the year was the amount of money Ashley had to put in to keep the club going - £30 million. And that sum included very little invested in players, it was mostly just to make sure the club could pay the players and meet its minimum financial commitments.

 

Is the net debt included in the accounts? If so is the change in net debt not a truer reflection of the actual monetary loss in a year? Is part of that £30m held as working capital sat in a bank collecting interest (replacing the overdraft facility we had)? Can anyone PM me a link to the accounts so I don't have to keep asking questions?

 

(Before anyone says it I realise there's a need to have working capital, and am not suggesting we can just go out and spend it on players, I'm just curious about where the money Ashley's put in has gone)

 

All debt is included in the accounts. The term "net debt" is one macbeth uses and I am not sure what he means. The figure he quotes for 2008 includes all normal trade creditors, which wouldn't normally be classified as "debt". He quotes two figures for 2007, one at £70 odd million which is correct and one at £124 million which isn't. The second one seems to be implying that debt of £54 million was originally excluded from the accounts in error, which is not true. His net assets graphs look spot on.

 

 

Anyway the fixed debt went from £70 million to £100 million in the year. The additional £30 million was funded by Ashley. There is no bank account earning interest in the group accounts, the only bank account was overdrawn.

 

I stuck a basic cash flow up on here earlier in the thread, but in slightly more detail the money has gone as follows:

 

Cash out from day to day operations £5 million

Interest paid on loans that have now been repaid £8 million

Money paid out for players bought £27 million

Money paid out for other assets £3 million

Loan repaid £70 million

 

Total out = £113 million

 

Money in from sale of players £8 million

 

Net cash going out = £105 million (£100 million funded by Ashley, the rest by the bank)

 

I don't have a link for the accounts that works, I've only only got them on PDF. I think macbeth said he could email them if anyone was interested?

 

[Mick]

Newcastle United are now factoring payments, this isn't a good sign.  They will get between 90 and 95% of money owed within 24 hours depending on who we are using.  This tends to suggest that we curently have cash-flow problems.

[ikri]

Newcastle United are now factoring payments, this isn't a good sign.  They will get between 90 and 95% of money owed within 24 hours depending on who we are using.  This tends to suggest that we curently have cash-flow problems.

 

Can we have that in English for those of us who aren't accountants?

[Robster]

I was thinking the other day about how we stand in telling all players they have to take pay cuts. Granted they are on contracts but so are most people in 9-5 jobs and certainly I am hearing the odd stories amongst people in my line of work where people are being asked to take pay cuts.

Can the club do that ?

[Kimbo]

Newcastle United are now factoring payments, this isn't a good sign.  They will get between 90 and 95% of money owed within 24 hours depending on who we are using.  This tends to suggest that we curently have cash-flow problems.

 

Well they've just got £10m from transfers, how bad can it be?

[indi]

I'm not an accountant, but I think it means that they're selling the debts (owed to the club) to a third party at less than what they're "worth" in order to raise cash now.

[Mr Logic]

Newcastle United are now factoring payments, this isn't a good sign.  They will get between 90 and 95% of money owed within 24 hours depending on who we are using.  This tends to suggest that we curently have cash-flow problems.

 

Where does this info come from Mick?

[Guest neesy111]

Newcastle United are now factoring payments, this isn't a good sign.  They will get between 90 and 95% of money owed within 24 hours depending on who we are using.  This tends to suggest that we curently have cash-flow problems.

 

it's how 90% of business's fail, when they don't have enough money to pay wages etc even though the business is profitable

 

it happen's usually when there are a number of payments to make at the same time, if a business owe's another business money and it can't pay that business owed money can file for the company be placed in administration to recoup some of there money back

 

if we are running into cashflow problems then it is a very worrying sign that the club does not have any money in the bank

[Matt]

This will be the season ticket payments, I suspect. Using next year's ticket sales to keep paying players wages.

[Mick]

 

Can we have that in English for those of us who aren't accountants?

 

Basically we have income from various sources and we get paid by a company (which could be a bank like Lloyds) straight away and the company who pays us gets the full amount from the creditor.

[Mick]

I was thinking the other day about how we stand in telling all players they have to take pay cuts. Granted they are on contracts but so are most people in 9-5 jobs and certainly I am hearing the odd stories amongst people in my line of work where people are being asked to take pay cuts.

Can the club do that ?

 

I'm sure that would be breaking the contract and if we did that the players could become free agents, at a guess.

[Mick]

This will be the season ticket payments, I suspect. Using next year's ticket sales to keep paying players wages.

 

It's not season ticket money specifically although it could possibly include that.  I'm not sure that any company would pay us for something that far ahead.

[Robster]

I was thinking the other day about how we stand in telling all players they have to take pay cuts. Granted they are on contracts but so are most people in 9-5 jobs and certainly I am hearing the odd stories amongst people in my line of work where people are being asked to take pay cuts.

Can the club do that ?

 

I'm sure that would be breaking the contract and if we did that the players could become free agents, at a guess.

If things are as bad as they seem, and we havent a bean to our name, then drastic measures are called for. If it meant we had a first team full teenagers but it meant that the huge wage bill was wiped off then whilst its a shuddering thought to think of how the team would perform, we might be that little bit safer from administration (but not relegation obviously)

 

Thats a completely irrational suggestion before anyone says but if we are in such dire trouble, I wonder to what lengths they will go to make sure we dont go under.

[Dave]

Example: Converting invoices to cash

You are owed £5,000 by a company who you expect will pay in a couple of months. You sell your invoice to a factoring company who give you £4,700 immediately. The factoring company then collect and keep the full £5,000 two months later

 

Example: Avoiding hassle of collecting bad debt

You are owed £15,000, but you are having difficulty getting the company who owes you to pay. You sell your invoice to a factoring company for £10,000, under a 'non-recourse factoring agreement' (see factoring terminology for further explanation). They then try to recover the money.

 

Example: Smoothing your cash flow

You issue invoices of approximately £30,000 each month, and have a variety of clients who can take between 1 to 3 months to pay. Therefore, although you issue invoices regularly, the money comes in at unpredictable times, making it difficult for you to manage your cash flow.

 

You contract out the collection of all your invoices to a factoring company who provide a "professional and courteous" service, so you know they won't upset your clients. They pay you immediately for the invoices, as they are raised, say £29,000 each month. They not only collect the debt, but also manage your sales ledger for you, which cuts down on your administration costs.

 

Example: Borrowing money, secured by your debt

You have no assets, but issue invoices of approximately £½million each month. With clients paying in approximately two months you have a book debt of £1million. You want a loan of £750,000.

 

Your bank lends you the money, secured against outstanding invoices that the business holds.

 

Conclusion

Factoring is a quick and easy way of turning your invoices into cash.

 

There are some potential disadvantages, the main ones being:

 

    * cost (which can vary depending on the nature of the debt/invoices) and

    * the fact that your clients have to deal with the factoring companies

 

There may be other financial implications (eg: your ability to borrow may be reduced). Your accountant should be able to examine your individual circumstances and advise whether there may be any additional implications for you.