Dave Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 If Owen stays, he'll still be on very, very high wages relatively speaking. He'll still be injury-prone. He'll still be getting older, slower and less effective. If Owen goes, that's your £8m gone right there to find a half-decent replacement. We're stuck with this problem. The faster Owen, and those of his kind are out of the club the better. We want young, hungry players with something to prove, not players relying on their reputation, and sitting on a mountain of cash. What, like Xisco? Yeah because he has really had a chance. Not his fault the deal was made in the way it was. Dave's just being a snide, man. He'll be telling you about how he's signed up for a 3 year deal soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 If Owen stays, he'll still be on very, very high wages relatively speaking. He'll still be injury-prone. He'll still be getting older, slower and less effective. If Owen goes, that's your £8m gone right there to find a half-decent replacement. We're stuck with this problem. The faster Owen, and those of his kind are out of the club the better. We want young, hungry players with something to prove, not players relying on their reputation, and sitting on a mountain of cash. What, like Xisco? Yeah because he has really had a chance. Not his fault the deal was made in the way it was. Wise clearly thought he was good enough. Who is to say he isn't? How old is he? How many games has he played? Obviously he isn't playing for some reason, with the rumours of it being a financial reason, then I can't see how we can judge him as a player. It could be other things, he might not have settled in the country well, he might not be able to communicate effectively, he might not be as good as we thought. I'm not judging him as a player. Just saying, the guy in charge of transfers is Wise, not the manager. The principle of which I still completely disagree with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 1. The club have never dealt with Nusc we are not in discussions with them. We've tried and ended up inviting ourselves to the fans forum to discuss stewarding. 2. We have no interest in talking keegan if he thinks that's what were about then he really is clueless. 3. He goes on about us charging a fee yet to set up an 'official' club recognized supporters club every member has to be a season ticket holder (and then still pay) 1. Is the first one not exactly what Llambias said? 2. Peasepud may indeed not have any interest in discussing Keegan, but the fact is other members of the committee do & they don't go with the majority vote. 3. So what? What does he think about the claims that NUSC went about everything the wrong way at the start? It’s not true that we have blanked them. We have engaged with them and had dialogue since they formed. I assume Peasepud denies this outright. I meant was it not what Llambias said had happened One of them must be lying. Mind I couldn't blame them for wanting nothing to do with a group like this The NUSC, with a fast growing membership, will soon be writing to the club's main sponsors and advertisers to request that they end their business relationship with a Mike Ashley owned Newcastle United. If the nightmare scenario of an Ashley owned Newcastle United continues to next summer, then we will organise a highly visible and energetic campaign amongst supporters to boycott any new kit and merchandise being sold by Adidas. In the meantime NUSC repeats its call to supporters to continue to boycott all club merchandise and Sports Direct outlets until we are rid of Mike Ashley!" I wonder if this is still the plan? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Highlights of the interview include: :: Derek Llambias apologising to Toon fans and admitting that the board's silence since Kevin Keegan left was wrong. :: A promise to give the fans a voice at the club. :: Predicting that Newcastle will lose millions this year but maintaining "we are not a selling club". :: Revealing that Mike Ashley believes Newcastle can challenge for EVERYTHING within the next five years. Guy certainly has a sense of humour, how would we do this then? Because Newcastle are a big club with a huge income, once the clubs outgoings are down to something sensible you would think we could be making £20 million profit every year which could be pumped straight back into the team, add to that the £20 million Ashley said he would put in every year (which he did put in last year) and you have a very healthy football club which can push back up to where we think we should be. A few fans will jump off the bandwagon and cancel their 3 year deals that they signed up for on the back of Keegan but they will be back when the club turns itself around. Trimming the wage budget to make profit and using that to boost the transfer kitty has it's downfalls, as it limits us to a certain calibre of player in most cases. Also the club is going to be paying back Mike's loan as soon as we do start to make a profit. We will still have a flawed structure in place with people in charge that are 'unfamiliar' with the football world. They believe Kinnear is the man for the future. That is how we can challenge everything Yet Everton manage to do well despite paying out around £25 million less than us in wages. They challenge everything do they? They've challenged the top 4 in the past few years, as are Aston Villa even though they don't pay out wages anywhere near ours. As a club progresses and brings in more money then they can go on to pay bigger wages to better players, it's all part of the building process. What clubs can't afford to do is to pay out big wages while there is no progress, otherwise they just end up like us. Skint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 When we're in league one it'll be ok as long as they change their story and blame the press for twisting things. He says he wants to emulate Villa (Which is at odds with Ashley who wants to be Arsenal), but Villa spent over £30M last summer. He's putting up £8M. Forgive me if I don't spunk on my gussett. Well obviously it won't be OK, but I thought we were talking about communication and all the quotes you highlighted? Nobody is happy with the current position of the club FFS, certainly not me. Difference is some of us aren't already planning suicide because of a bad few months... and we don't choose to rant on about an owner that is now here to stay. Your the kind of bloke who takes his lass back when she's been whoring about aren't you? I'll not go through every one because some were more flippant than others, but can you read these quotes and say they don't tell flat out lies to suit their needs as and when? "This club had £100million-worth of debt which has now been cleared" "We have started talking about who we will be bringing in and Kevin will have the final say" How can you sit back watching them say one thing then do another over and over again and keep going back for more? I'm not planning suicide, but there's no reason to make it comfortable for them. When their actions speak far more loudly than their words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 1. The club have never dealt with Nusc we are not in discussions with them. We've tried and ended up inviting ourselves to the fans forum to discuss stewarding. 2. We have no interest in talking keegan if he thinks that's what were about then he really is clueless. 3. He goes on about us charging a fee yet to set up an 'official' club recognized supporters club every member has to be a season ticket holder (and then still pay) 1. Is the first one not exactly what Llambias said? 2. Peasepud may indeed not have any interest in discussing Keegan, but the fact is other members of the committee do & they don't go with the majority vote. 3. So what? What does he think about the claims that NUSC went about everything the wrong way at the start? It’s not true that we have blanked them. We have engaged with them and had dialogue since they formed. I assume Peasepud denies this outright. I meant was it not what Llambias said had happened One of them must be lying. I know who I'm inclined to believe tbh. Snipped the rest of your post as it's irrelevant mud-slinging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalker Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 CAN you explain why Mr Ashley completely ignored a request from NUSC to meet in a location of his choice to liaise with fans? WE’RE in dialogue with them. We have a monthly meeting and we need to get the record straight – we are in dialogue with NUSC. We have a monthly supporter meeting where a reasonably representative group of people who represent our fans tell us what for. They have been invited to be part of that forum so there are four or five of them coming along. It’s not true that we have blanked them. We have engaged with them and had dialogue since they formed. And we’re sitting down again with the group. Their initial approach was not in the correct tone. They are a small group and they are charging a subscription fee which was a bit strange to us. They are welcome to come along to our forums. That’s fine, they are coming on February 12 and there will be four or five of them. The whole idea of the panel is basically to give them an idea of where we are going and what the expectations for the future are. We don’t want to talk about Kevin Keegan, which is an issue they will insist talking about. Unfortunately, that’s not what the tone is. There are breakaway supporters groups. They (the NUSC) are a small group and given more credence than they deserve. Anyone any idea who these supporters who have been invited to the meeting are? Given the extra credence that NUSC are given compared to what they deserve it can't be them can it. Personally just have more contempt for the regime after this interview full of platitudes and bullshit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 crap questions, crap answers. i expect the better stuff will be in the journal. why the fuck did they waste a question on jiminez who we know has left the club? also, the dennis wise response - thanks for clearing that up derek. i do get the impression that they still dont 'get it' - they dont realise theyve made mistakes and that they're still making mistakes and just put it down to 'poor communication' as if everything would be fine if only theyd talked more. talk of wanting us to be like aston villa is pointless, everything thats happened since they came in has moved us away from how villa are being ran. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I know who I'm inclined to believe tbh. Snipped the rest of your post as it's irrelevant mud-slinging. You can snip it all you want, but it's the sort of thing that was mentioned in the interview with Llambias printed today as to why the club aren't affording them any special treatment over and above the established supporters panel. For that reason it's relevant. The committee of NUSC have one or two members who like to "do their own thing" so it wouldn't surprise me if everyone is aware of all the facts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 nothing wholly unexpected about it all, thought he came across reasonably well if a little condescending (although given the actions of some of our fans, it's to be expected). spot on about "the NUSC" - perhaps the fog of war will start to lift from their eyes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 crap questions, crap answers. i expect the better stuff will be in the journal. why the fuck did they waste a question on jiminez who we know has left the club? also, the dennis wise response - thanks for clearing that up derek. i do get the impression that they still dont 'get it' - they dont realise theyve made mistakes and that they're still making mistakes and just put it down to 'poor communication' as if everything would be fine if only theyd talked more. talk of wanting us to be like aston villa is pointless, everything thats happened since they came in has moved us away from how villa are being ran. Villa were a club that was self sufficient under Ellis so any money put in by Lerner could go into improving the first team, the difference here is that any money put in by Ashley is going to keeping the club running. Until that's turned around than we will never have any money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 nothing wholly unexpected about it all, thought he came across reasonably well if a little condescending (although given the actions of some of our fans, it's to be expected). spot on about "the NUSC" - perhaps the fog of war will start to lift from their eyes If the NUSC weren't getting so much press coverage with their demands for communication from the club you can be sure this interview would never have happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I know who I'm inclined to believe tbh. Snipped the rest of your post as it's irrelevant mud-slinging. You can snip it all you want, but it's the sort of thing that was mentioned in the interview with Llambias printed today as to why the club aren't affording them any special treatment over and above the established supporters panel. For that reason it's relevant. The committee of NUSC have one or two members who like to "do their own thing" so it wouldn't surprise me if everyone is aware of all the facts. People did try and point out that NUSC were going about things the wrong way when they started up, the fact that the club have came out and said the same might make them change their ways. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 CAN you explain why Mr Ashley completely ignored a request from NUSC to meet in a location of his choice to liaise with fans? WE’RE in dialogue with them. We have a monthly meeting and we need to get the record straight – we are in dialogue with NUSC. We have a monthly supporter meeting where a reasonably representative group of people who represent our fans tell us what for. They have been invited to be part of that forum so there are four or five of them coming along. It’s not true that we have blanked them. We have engaged with them and had dialogue since they formed. And we’re sitting down again with the group. Their initial approach was not in the correct tone. They are a small group and they are charging a subscription fee which was a bit strange to us. They are welcome to come along to our forums. That’s fine, they are coming on February 12 and there will be four or five of them. The whole idea of the panel is basically to give them an idea of where we are going and what the expectations for the future are. We don’t want to talk about Kevin Keegan, which is an issue they will insist talking about. Unfortunately, that’s not what the tone is. There are breakaway supporters groups. They (the NUSC) are a small group and given more credence than they deserve. Anyone any idea who these supporters who have been invited to the meeting are? Given the extra credence that NUSC are given compared to what they deserve it can't be them can it. Personally just have more contempt for the regime after this interview full of platitudes and bullshit. He says they are in dialogue with fans which is true. The guys from nufc.com some from here and other sections of fans all go to regular meetings with the club. He doesn't say they are meeting soley with NUSC which is the correct way to do it since NUSC has very few members. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 nothing wholly unexpected about it all, thought he came across reasonably well if a little condescending (although given the actions of some of our fans, it's to be expected). spot on about "the NUSC" - perhaps the fog of war will start to lift from their eyes If the NUSC weren't getting so much press coverage with their demands for communication from the club you can be sure this interview would never have happened. Thats rubbish I'm afraid. The club had said before Xmas they would talk after the transfer window. NUSC had sweet FA to do with the interview or the future meeting. In fact I don't even know if anyone on NUSC is part of the meeting, they might be I don't know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 nothing wholly unexpected about it all, thought he came across reasonably well if a little condescending (although given the actions of some of our fans, it's to be expected). spot on about "the NUSC" - perhaps the fog of war will start to lift from their eyes If the NUSC weren't getting so much press coverage with their demands for communication from the club you can be sure this interview would never have happened. This communication has come about because the club was taken off the market and that they would make statements when January was out of the way. Nothing to do with NUSC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 nothing wholly unexpected about it all, thought he came across reasonably well if a little condescending (although given the actions of some of our fans, it's to be expected). spot on about "the NUSC" - perhaps the fog of war will start to lift from their eyes If the NUSC weren't getting so much press coverage with their demands for communication from the club you can be sure this interview would never have happened. This communication has come about because the club was taken off the market and that they would make statements when January was out of the way. Nothing to do with NUSC. Correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I fear that one comment is going to get so confused by people. I hope people realise he has not said they will talk with NUSC he has said they will talk with fans which they have been doing since they took over. It went quiet for a bit around the time KK left but then was started up again saying a meeting would be held in Feb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 crap questions, crap answers. i expect the better stuff will be in the journal. why the fuck did they waste a question on jiminez who we know has left the club? also, the dennis wise response - thanks for clearing that up derek. i do get the impression that they still dont 'get it' - they dont realise theyve made mistakes and that they're still making mistakes and just put it down to 'poor communication' as if everything would be fine if only theyd talked more. talk of wanting us to be like aston villa is pointless, everything thats happened since they came in has moved us away from how villa are being ran. Villa were a club that was self sufficient under Ellis so any money put in by Lerner could go into improving the first team, the difference here is that any money put in by Ashley is going to keeping the club running. Until that's turned around than we will never have any money. aston villa have appointed a top class manager and backed his judgement. we've had a system of bureaucrats meddling in transfer activity and approached old british, and in many cases crap, managers to work with a system they are unsuited to (and vice versa), offering literally nothing to spend but in fact making a profit. different directions. however the comparison of Doug Ellis to Mike Ashley is an excellent one, both have zero ambition and would prefer to risk nothing for financial stability than to invest in the hope of improving the club on and off the pitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consortium of one Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Interesting responses from Llambias. As someone pointed out earlier, he talked the talk but now the club has to walk the walk. I can understand why they would be wary of any supporters group, at this point. Interesting that he would admit that the failings were pretty much chalked up to them not knowing how to run a football club. I like the honesty but they need an experienced hand at the tiller, no? reading between the lines, anything and everything to do with Keegan was a complete clusterfuck. I get the feeling that Joe coming back is lip service. I think he's not a long term solution and everyone knows that. I think the talk of him potentially getting a long term deal is so that he isn't a lame duck coach. I don't think Kinnear wants the pressure of coaching at this level. I think he wants to use this job as a platform to take a club on a lower level with less stress and expectations. He's not good enough at this level and even he must see that (I hope). The management structure isn't changing. The business model isn't changing. They'll look to cut off some deadwood, grow the roster from the bottom up but Ashley will dig into his pockets if the right purchases are available. One of three things is possible: they're bullshitting the fans, they're bullshitting themselves or they're going about it the right way. Only time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 nothing wholly unexpected about it all, thought he came across reasonably well if a little condescending (although given the actions of some of our fans, it's to be expected). spot on about "the NUSC" - perhaps the fog of war will start to lift from their eyes If the NUSC weren't getting so much press coverage with their demands for communication from the club you can be sure this interview would never have happened. Thats rubbish I'm afraid. The club had said before Xmas they would talk after the transfer window. NUSC had sweet FA to do with the interview or the future meeting. In fact I don't even know if anyone on NUSC is part of the meeting, they might be I don't know. The club said just after christams they'd be speaking in the new year (Ashley's programme notes for the Liverpool game). That never happened though so Kinnear said it would be after the transfer window. Then he said it would be the end of the season that they'd talk to supporters groups. Now Llambias points out they're regularly talking to supporters groups. Nobody at the club is reading from the same page. Anyhow, why did they feel the need to break from their policy of silence, if not due to the pressure they were under? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Interesting responses from Llambias. As someone pointed out earlier, he talked the talk but now the club has to walk the walk. I can understand why they would be wary of any supporters group, at this point. Interesting that he would admit that the failings were pretty much chalked up to them not knowing how to run a football club. I like the honesty but they need an experienced hand at the tiller, no? reading between the lines, anything and everything to do with Keegan was a complete clusterfuck. I get the feeling that Joe coming back is lip service. I think he's not a long term solution and everyone knows that. I think the talk of him potentially getting a long term deal is so that he isn't a lame duck coach. I don't think Kinnear wants the pressure of coaching at this level. I think he wants to use this job as a platform to take a club on a lower level with less stress and expectations. He's not good enough at this level and even he must see that (I hope). The management structure isn't changing. The business model isn't changing. They'll look to cut off some deadwood, grow the roster from the bottom up but Ashley will dig into his pockets if the right purchases are available. One of three things is possible: they're bullshitting the fans, they're bullshitting themselves or they're going about it the right way. Only time will tell. Agreed with that. If the players think he's a dead man walking (pardon the phrasing) then they won't play for him, they'll be looking to the next manager (like when FFS daftly told the world SBR was going at the end of the season and the players thought fuk this, why both?) It's also no surprise this contract offer was announced during the window to show stability to potential players coming to the club. JFK will be gone in the summer, 99% sure of that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 He says they are in dialogue with fans which is true. The guys from nufc.com some from here and other sections of fans all go to regular meetings with the club. He doesn't say they are meeting soley with NUSC which is the correct way to do it since NUSC has very few members. No they don't. That ended when Mort left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 nothing wholly unexpected about it all, thought he came across reasonably well if a little condescending (although given the actions of some of our fans, it's to be expected). spot on about "the NUSC" - perhaps the fog of war will start to lift from their eyes If the NUSC weren't getting so much press coverage with their demands for communication from the club you can be sure this interview would never have happened. Thats rubbish I'm afraid. The club had said before Xmas they would talk after the transfer window. NUSC had sweet FA to do with the interview or the future meeting. In fact I don't even know if anyone on NUSC is part of the meeting, they might be I don't know. The club said just after christams they'd be speaking in the new year (Ashley's programme notes for the Liverpool game). That never happened though so Kinnear said it would be after the transfer window. Then he said it would be the end of the season that they'd talk to supporters groups. Now Llambias points out they're regularly talking to supporters groups. Nobody at the club is reading from the same page. Anyhow, why did they feel the need to break from their policy of silence, if not due to the pressure they were under? It's been known by the people who go to the meetings it would be February for a long time. I don't care what JK said how much of what he says is true anyway Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 IF JK is going then why not now? He could take us down, and a new man now would get the chance to have a good look at the squad instead of just training and any pre-season games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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