Llambias Q&A with Chronicle: OP updated with Thursday's articles

[Dave]

That does make for a good read. However you're forgetting how bad Big Sam actually was when in charge here.

 

Agreed. Good post though, and I agree with it in general.

[ikri]

That does make for a good read. However you're forgetting how bad Big Sam actually was when in charge here.

 

I've seen much worse this season to be honest and while I can't disagree with anyone who claims Big Sam was in general pretty rubbish in his time here I believed in time even under Ashley he'd have turned us around in terms of top 8 which we would all kill for right now.

 

Not that my points are about Big Sam himself, more what his appointment meant in terms of how FS saw the future, recognised the past and his plans to turn the club around on and off the pitch. Lets remember when he was appointed most fans were in favour and even those that didn't like him or rate him highly nor wanted him here recognised that what he believed in, science, diet, fitness, scouting, building from the back and his experience at working with small budgets was very much inline with what was needed at the club and indeed required.

 

I believe the arrival of a man worth £2bn lifted expectations and upped the preasure levels. I mean as soon as Ashley took over many on here were debating what that meant for Big Sam and whether the goalposts had moved and did we now require a different type of manager. That was always in the backs of fans' heads, not all of course but a good number, increasing the likelihood of less patience. Mind the loss to Derby didn't do him any fabours, nor his tactics and some of the team's performances.

 

All I know is I was happy when he was appointed, could see some sense in it all and some hope for the future, a one that was better than what we had seen under Souness and Roeder. Today I have zero hope and see no sense in any of Ashley's so-called plans. I guarantee they will fail unless he appoints a competent manager and gives that man full control and even then there is no guarantee.

 

We were shit under fat sam, truly utterly shit.

 

We might have been in the top 8 under fat sam's management, but it'd be the top 8 of the championship.

[Dave]

I thought Allardyce was fucking shit but I've never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

[madras]

Ironically, over a year after he was sacked, we are in more need of an Allardyce type operator now than when he was actually appointed.

 

We can pin the blame on Freddy Shepherd regarding the financial state of the club as much as we like but the real reason why we haven't progressed financially since the day we appointed Big Sam (an admission by Shepherd that we could no longer carry on as we had done prior to Big Sam arriving with the reckless spending) is due to Mike Ashley not carrying out any form of due diligence which most of his decisions since taking over (mostly all counter productive and backfiring) have resulted from.

 

Had he, he'd have quickly lost his interest in buying the club, allowing Shepherd's plan to get the club out of the mire on and off the pitch, to go on as he had intended with his appointment of Big Sam. It is a matter of debate of course but we could theoretically be almost 2 season's down that line of gradual progress under Shepherd and his choice of manager. Now you could argue with great justification that we are actually behind from where FS left us which was with an on-side crowd, a competent and qualified manager the majority of fans were pleased with and importantly a squad of players who could see something ahead of them, content players. Shay Given certainly didn't complain, nor did Charles N'Zogbia!

 

The complete opposite of what we have now basically, on the pitch and in the dugout anyway. We are in a much worse state now then we were when FS was last making decisions at the club. 

 

Ashley isn't even doing anything new either because FS was well into a period of frugality which started with the decision not to spend any money in the January transfer window before Souness was sacked (when many were calling for him to "back or sack", myself included), the decision to keep Roeder on permanently, subsequently under funding him and then the real admission - appointing Big Sam. All measures designed to cut back spending and to move the club forward in a different way to the usual spend spend spend nature under FS which at his most reckless came with Souness as manager.

 

Ashley has had almost 2 seasons to build on that but has reversed it to the point now where we have to start all over again. This time with Kinnear as manager and a broken team that has lost its world-class 'keeper, a promising winger and in the summer its record signing among other players who will want out or be sold. And maybe a division down too!

 

At least FS had other plans to turn around the club with land redevelopment and stadium expansion plans which would have seen companies pay the club to expand the ground's capacity. Also as a PLC there was always options to seek further investment from shareholders if the worst ever came to the worst.

 

Ashley via his various mouthpieces keep banging on about inheriting all these problems and all this debt, well Mike, in you we have inherited the owner equivalent.

 

If only we had the option of being able to carry out due diligence on Mike Ashley. Me? I'd have stuck with Shepherd thankyou, at least he had a workable plan to get us out of the s*** in Big Sam/ground developments and had the club's best interests at heart.

 

FS nor our debt before the takeover has forced Ashley into running the club the way he intends, not doing due diligence has and all those other f***-ups he's made since, each impacting the other.

 

That and the Cockney Mafia out banner of course

 

we can argue this way and that over wether we'd have been better off or not under fred/allardyce (i personally think allardyce would have took us down),even if he hadn't i'm not at all sure,given the financial state of the club, wether fred and co would have got more credit to cover the losses let alone team building.

 

 

wasn't it fred who once said he'd like to take the club off the stock market as it is easier to finance as a private concern ?

 

also with the land development thing. i understand the reason it didn't go ahead was certain people massivly overvalued it.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I thought Allardyce was f***ing s*** but I never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

Same here. I actually thought and I said it on here at the time as well that he'd have picked up a few more points than KK did during his first few games after Big Sam got sacked. Remember not long before he went we were not conceding many and had recently drew 1-1 with Arsenal and narrowly lost 2-1 to Chelsea. Under KK we were getting stuffed at home to Man Utd, away to Villa etc. and struggling badly to the point at half-time away to Birmingham I thought we could go down which I never felt under Big Sam. We would have been in the mix like but we were under KK too. Going down is a real possibility now however...

[madras]

That does make for a good read. However you're forgetting how bad Big Sam actually was when in charge here.

 

I've seen much worse this season to be honest and while I can't disagree with anyone who claims Big Sam was in general pretty rubbish in his time here I believed in time even under Ashley he'd have turned us around in terms of top 8 which we would all kill for right now.

 

Not that my points are about Big Sam himself, more what his appointment meant in terms of how FS saw the future, recognised the past and his plans to turn the club around on and off the pitch. Lets remember when he was appointed most fans were in favour and even those that didn't like him or rate him highly nor wanted him here recognised that what he believed in, science, diet, fitness, scouting, building from the back and his experience at working with small budgets was very much inline with what was needed at the club and indeed required.

 

I believe the arrival of a man worth £2bn lifted expectations and upped the preasure levels. I mean as soon as Ashley took over many on here were debating what that meant for Big Sam and whether the goalposts had moved and did we now require a different type of manager. That was always in the backs of fans' heads, not all of course but a good number, increasing the likelihood of less patience. Mind the loss to Derby didn't do him any fabours, nor his tactics and some of the team's performances.

 

All I know is I was happy when he was appointed, could see some sense in it all and some hope for the future, a one that was better than what we had seen under Souness and Roeder. Today I have zero hope and see no sense in any of Ashley's so-called plans. I guarantee they will fail unless he appoints a competent manager and gives that man full control and even then there is no guarantee.

couldn't agree more about needing to appoint a competent manager.

[Tooj]

I thought Allardyce was f***ing s*** but I never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

Same here. I actually thought and I said it on here at the time as well that he'd have picked up a few more points than KK did during his first few games after Big Sam got sacked. Remember not long before he went we were not conceding many and had recently drew 1-1 with Arsenal and narrowly lost 2-1 to Chelsea. Under KK we were getting stuffed at home to Man Utd, away to Villa etc. and struggling badly to the point at half-time away to Birmingham I thought we could go down which I never felt under Big Sam. We would have been in the mix like but we were under KK too. Going down is a real possibility now however...

 

The thing is. KK got us playing our way out of that by making the players believe in themselves again. We would't have recovered under Big Sam.

[Wallace]

I'm no fan of Allardyce but if Shepherd had still been at the club, it may have been different for him because he would have had the backing of the chairman and all his moans about the club acting too slow in the transfer market would not have been the case.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Ironically, over a year after he was sacked, we are in more need of an Allardyce type operator now than when he was actually appointed.

 

We can pin the blame on Freddy Shepherd regarding the financial state of the club as much as we like but the real reason why we haven't progressed financially since the day we appointed Big Sam (an admission by Shepherd that we could no longer carry on as we had done prior to Big Sam arriving with the reckless spending) is due to Mike Ashley not carrying out any form of due diligence which most of his decisions since taking over (mostly all counter productive and backfiring) have resulted from.

 

Had he, he'd have quickly lost his interest in buying the club, allowing Shepherd's plan to get the club out of the mire on and off the pitch, to go on as he had intended with his appointment of Big Sam. It is a matter of debate of course but we could theoretically be almost 2 season's down that line of gradual progress under Shepherd and his choice of manager. Now you could argue with great justification that we are actually behind from where FS left us which was with an on-side crowd, a competent and qualified manager the majority of fans were pleased with and importantly a squad of players who could see something ahead of them, content players. Shay Given certainly didn't complain, nor did Charles N'Zogbia!

 

The complete opposite of what we have now basically, on the pitch and in the dugout anyway. We are in a much worse state now then we were when FS was last making decisions at the club. 

 

Ashley isn't even doing anything new either because FS was well into a period of frugality which started with the decision not to spend any money in the January transfer window before Souness was sacked (when many were calling for him to "back or sack", myself included), the decision to keep Roeder on permanently, subsequently under funding him and then the real admission - appointing Big Sam. All measures designed to cut back spending and to move the club forward in a different way to the usual spend spend spend nature under FS which at his most reckless came with Souness as manager.

 

Ashley has had almost 2 seasons to build on that but has reversed it to the point now where we have to start all over again. This time with Kinnear as manager and a broken team that has lost its world-class 'keeper, a promising winger and in the summer its record signing among other players who will want out or be sold. And maybe a division down too!

 

At least FS had other plans to turn around the club with land redevelopment and stadium expansion plans which would have seen companies pay the club to expand the ground's capacity. Also as a PLC there was always options to seek further investment from shareholders if the worst ever came to the worst.

 

Ashley via his various mouthpieces keep banging on about inheriting all these problems and all this debt, well Mike, in you we have inherited the owner equivalent.

 

If only we had the option of being able to carry out due diligence on Mike Ashley. Me? I'd have stuck with Shepherd thankyou, at least he had a workable plan to get us out of the s*** in Big Sam/ground developments and had the club's best interests at heart.

 

FS nor our debt before the takeover has forced Ashley into running the club the way he intends, not doing due diligence has and all those other f***-ups he's made since, each impacting the other.

 

That and the Cockney Mafia out banner of course

 

we can argue this way and that over wether we'd have been better off or not under fred/allardyce (i personally think allardyce would have took us down),even if he hadn't i'm not at all sure,given the financial state of the club, wether fred and co would have got more credit to cover the losses let alone team building.

 

 

wasn't it fred who once said he'd like to take the club off the stock market as it is easier to finance as a private concern ?

 

also with the land development thing. i understand the reason it didn't go ahead was certain people massivly overvalued it.

 

We can argue this and that I agree, you paint a darker picture of relegation and going bust and I obviously paint a better picture. The truth as ever would be somewhere in the middle of our two views which is a damn sight better than where we at now which sees us in a real relegation fight and in debt to the tune of over 240m to one man, a bigger debt than under FS. A debt that to reduce will require more cost cutting as we're seeing or a sale which we haven't. Either way under Ashley it is as bleak as it ever was under FS. Of course it doesn't have to be like that. Appointing a competent manager would be a big step forward which is what FS did in appointing Allardyce...

[madras]

I thought Allardyce was f***ing s*** but I never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

Same here. I actually thought and I said it on here at the time as well that he'd have picked up a few more points than KK did during his first few games after Big Sam got sacked. Remember not long before he went we were not conceding many and had recently drew 1-1 with Arsenal and narrowly lost 2-1 to Chelsea. Under KK we were getting stuffed at home to Man Utd, away to Villa etc. and struggling badly to the point at half-time away to Birmingham I thought we could go down which I never felt under Big Sam. We would have been in the mix like but we were under KK too. Going down is a real possibility now however...

or you could say kinnears nufc got a point at chelsea...overall it's been poor,as was allardyce but i reckon kinnear would go to west brom to try and win ,allardyce wouldn't. remember derby took 4 points off us and deserved 6,remember the team he put out away to sunderland ? remember saying "well we were 3 down after 15mins so its gone from then" without saying we were only 2 down after 17mins and you still had no desire for it ?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I thought Allardyce was f***ing s*** but I never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

Same here. I actually thought and I said it on here at the time as well that he'd have picked up a few more points than KK did during his first few games after Big Sam got sacked. Remember not long before he went we were not conceding many and had recently drew 1-1 with Arsenal and narrowly lost 2-1 to Chelsea. Under KK we were getting stuffed at home to Man Utd, away to Villa etc. and struggling badly to the point at half-time away to Birmingham I thought we could go down which I never felt under Big Sam. We would have been in the mix like but we were under KK too. Going down is a real possibility now however...

 

The thing is. KK got us playing our way out of that by making the players believe in themselves again. We would't have recovered under Big Sam.

 

He did and it worked eventually as I knew it would and trusted would, KK is a good manager, much better than Big Sam, time wasn't really on his side at the time but he just about turned it around by the end of the season which would have continued into this season and beyond no doubt but that's done and dusted with now, sadly.

 

I think Big Sam would have turned us around too, in a totally different way mind but eventually I think he would have.

[indi]

I thought Allardyce was f***ing s*** but I never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

Same here. I actually thought and I said it on here at the time as well that he'd have picked up a few more points than KK did during his first few games after Big Sam got sacked. Remember not long before he went we were not conceding many and had recently drew 1-1 with Arsenal and narrowly lost 2-1 to Chelsea. Under KK we were getting stuffed at home to Man Utd, away to Villa etc. and struggling badly to the point at half-time away to Birmingham I thought we could go down which I never felt under Big Sam. We would have been in the mix like but we were under KK too. Going down is a real possibility now however...

 

The thing is. KK got us playing our way out of that by making the players believe in themselves again. We would't have recovered under Big Sam.

 

He realised it might have to get worse before it got better.

 

Hmmm...

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I thought Allardyce was f***ing s*** but I never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

Same here. I actually thought and I said it on here at the time as well that he'd have picked up a few more points than KK did during his first few games after Big Sam got sacked. Remember not long before he went we were not conceding many and had recently drew 1-1 with Arsenal and narrowly lost 2-1 to Chelsea. Under KK we were getting stuffed at home to Man Utd, away to Villa etc. and struggling badly to the point at half-time away to Birmingham I thought we could go down which I never felt under Big Sam. We would have been in the mix like but we were under KK too. Going down is a real possibility now however...

 

The thing is. KK got us playing our way out of that by making the players believe in themselves again. We would't have recovered under Big Sam.

 

He realised it might have to get worse before it got better.

 

Hmmm...

 

Ashley can't afford for things to get worse and fans shouldn't be asked to put up with such events in the hope and that's all it is that things could and I cannot emphasise the word could enough, get better. Ironically that was a Big Sam's excuse after the defeat away to derby....

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I thought Allardyce was fucking shit but I've never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

I was convinced we would be relegated if we'd kept him, probably moreso than I have been at any point this season tbh.

 

EDIT: That might be in part due to the amount of shite at the bottom of the table this season.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I thought Allardyce was f***ing s*** but I never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

Same here. I actually thought and I said it on here at the time as well that he'd have picked up a few more points than KK did during his first few games after Big Sam got sacked. Remember not long before he went we were not conceding many and had recently drew 1-1 with Arsenal and narrowly lost 2-1 to Chelsea. Under KK we were getting stuffed at home to Man Utd, away to Villa etc. and struggling badly to the point at half-time away to Birmingham I thought we could go down which I never felt under Big Sam. We would have been in the mix like but we were under KK too. Going down is a real possibility now however...

or you could say kinnears nufc got a point at chelsea...overall it's been poor,as was allardyce but i reckon kinnear would go to west brom to try and win ,allardyce wouldn't. remember derby took 4 points off us and deserved 6,remember the team he put out away to sunderland ? remember saying "well we were 3 down after 15mins so its gone from then" without saying we were only 2 down after 17mins and you still had no desire for it ?

 

Allardyce had a 5 year contract and was delusional and arrogant enough to feel secure even after the takeover to allow him the room to experiment and occasional shit performance/defeat, even if only in his own head. Not excusing him nor such performances and defeats but just because they happened doesn't mean that would have been the norm, not when his record with Bolton weighted so heavily against such a notion. As for Kinnear, he is a negative manager too and is of the belief that you win games by keeping clean sheets, he'd have set us up for a draw at WBA as he was more than happy to get at home to the mackems. Derby away was bad but I've seen just as bad this season under Kinnear. At least Sam had a decent record at Bolton.

[Parky]

I thought Allardyce was fucking shit but I've never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

I was convinced we would be relegated if we'd kept him, probably moreso than I have been at any point this season tbh.

 

EDIT: That might be in part due to the amount of shite at the bottom of the table this season.

 

Your sig looks like a JK teamtalk.

[Mick]

I'm no fan of Allardyce but if Shepherd had still been at the club, it may have been different for him because he would have had the backing of the chairman and all his moans about the club acting too slow in the transfer market would not have been the case.

 

If it wasn't for Ashley, where would Allardyce have got the money from?  Remember, the club spent many £million on trying to restructure debt and from what I've heard they'd been knocked back by a number of banks.  I'm sure the first set of accounts after Ashley took over had £4 or £5 million going out of the club for this purpose.

 

I doubt the shareholders would have been in a position to pump money in as Cameron Hall had a worse set of accounts than we did and they were using money from the club to keep the business going.  That is why they were selling shares from time to time, to prop up Cameron Hall so they were in no position to send cash the other way.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I thought Allardyce was f***ing s*** but I've never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

I was convinced we would be relegated if we'd kept him, probably moreso than I have been at any point this season tbh.

 

EDIT: That might be in part due to the amount of s**** at the bottom of the table this season.

 

The only thing that prevents me from believing we shall be relegated this season is nothing more than the equivalent of sticking my fingers in my ears, closing my eyes and screaming la la la la la la. I.e. if I ignore it it will go away, that's how shitting it I am. By the start of May we could be in the bottom 3 a few points off. That's fucking scary.

[Parky]

I'm no fan of Allardyce but if Shepherd had still been at the club, it may have been different for him because he would have had the backing of the chairman and all his moans about the club acting too slow in the transfer market would not have been the case.

 

SA did  a fair bit of whinging abuot the quality he was allowed to bring in.

 

iirc he was keen on Diarra and Anelka at the time, but both wanted high wages.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

I thought Allardyce was fucking shit but I've never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

I was convinced we would be relegated if we'd kept him, probably moreso than I have been at any point this season tbh.

 

EDIT: That might be in part due to the amount of shite at the bottom of the table this season.

 

Your sig looks like a JK teamtalk.

 

It was Keegan in his first spell used to pin the opposition team sheet on the wall & say "If we can't beat them we might as well not bother" according to John Beresford.

[indi]

I thought Allardyce was f***ing s*** but I never thought he'd have taken us down. Said the same when he was sacked, fact fans.

 

Same here. I actually thought and I said it on here at the time as well that he'd have picked up a few more points than KK did during his first few games after Big Sam got sacked. Remember not long before he went we were not conceding many and had recently drew 1-1 with Arsenal and narrowly lost 2-1 to Chelsea. Under KK we were getting stuffed at home to Man Utd, away to Villa etc. and struggling badly to the point at half-time away to Birmingham I thought we could go down which I never felt under Big Sam. We would have been in the mix like but we were under KK too. Going down is a real possibility now however...

 

The thing is. KK got us playing our way out of that by making the players believe in themselves again. We would't have recovered under Big Sam.

 

He realised it might have to get worse before it got better.

 

Hmmm...

 

Ashley can't afford for things to get worse and fans shouldn't be asked to put up with such events in the hope and that's all it is that things could and I cannot emphasise the word could enough, get better. Ironically that was a Big Sam's excuse after the defeat away to derby....

 

This is them being worse, hopefully they'll start to get better from here on in. The summer's really important in terms of if, and how quickly, things are going to get turned around. In my view Ashley was left with a choice, fix the team and try and keep the financial side of things ticking over to be addressed properly at a later date, or fix the financial side of the club and try to keep the team ticking over to be addressed properly at a later date. I think he's chosen to fix the financial side first, in the hope that the current squad is good enough to keep us in this division, it's a risk, but I think that's going to happen. I don't think we'll go down this season, there are more than three teams who are worse than us and that's all we need from this season now. I think/hope that in the summer we'll see significant changes to the squad with some big-earning small-performing players leave and quite a few lower-earning (hopefully) better-performing players brought in to replenish the squad. I think the aim will be for that to improve the squad overall with the intention to be securely in the upper-half of the league, maybe even pushing for a UEFA place. Then the following season I think they'll aim to improve further, with the intention of definitely qualifying for Europe. During this time I don't think we can expect to see many big-name signings as they will be implementing things to improve the financial position of the club which may include selling on a couple of players if they can secure a good price for them to re-invest in improving the squad further. I think that's going to be the plan anyway, if it is and we see a general improvement in the overall health of the club, both on and off the pitch then I for one will be happy.

[Dokko]

Has there been new words of wisdom since his 1st lot?

[Dave]

Has there been new words of wisdom since his 1st lot?

 

http://www.newcastle-online.org/nufcforum/index.php/topic,60436.0.html

[mrmojorisin75]

 

OK then. Please tell us that Ashley is doing as well as the old regime in terms of qualifying for europe more often than anybody else in the last 50 years.

 

I think this must be a case of you either stalling, or not having the balls to give a straight reply.

 

 

this stopped me in my tracks when trying to catch up, stupefyingly idiotic sentence if ever i read one - i'd say it was wrong on every single level but it only pertains to operate on one level and it's diabolically wrong on that too

 

 

 

[NE5]

 

OK then. Please tell us that Ashley is doing as well as the old regime in terms of qualifying for europe more often than anybody else in the last 50 years.

 

I think this must be a case of you either stalling, or not having the balls to give a straight reply.

 

 

this stopped me in my tracks when trying to catch up, stupefyingly idiotic sentence if ever i read one - i'd say it was wrong on every single level but it only pertains to operate on one level and it's diabolically wrong on that too

 

 

 

 

the point is that he won't admit it, and still won't in fact, and sidetracked it again. The last regime has been the best in the last 50 years, by a country mile, and it doesn't take much to realise it or admit, but its too much for some.