U23s & Academy

[Guest HTT II]

1 hour ago, OCK said:

 

This isn't unique to Sunderland. Academies have a lot of younger coaches that were once academy players and never made it, but were liked by whoever does the recruiting. I was told early on it isn't what you know, but if your face fits, by an NUFC Academy coach... and they're not wrong. It doesn't surprise me one bit at the current coaches currently coaching from u7s-u16s at the club. It's also one of the reasons I realised I probably wouldn't want to or enjoy coaching at Academy level (at least locally). It becomes life consuming too. 

 

The entire Academy system is a bit of a farce, I'm talking as a whole here, not specifically NUFC or SAFC. For some its jobs for the boys, for others its hiring coaches that are good with kids. Some take feedback from the coaches, others don't. Some coaches share feedback and progress reports between 2-4 year age gaps to make sure transitions are covered, others don't. If one coach doesn’t like a kid - it's over.

It's just a protection of investment and potential fee in the making, which to me says everything I need to know - they don't treat the kids as kids, or even footballers, but commodities.  Disposable, replaceable, resources.

Ideally, the local grassroots club should be linked directly to whatever semi-pro/professional club is in their region and any kids that are developed there are eligible for scholarship programs and once they turn 16. Before that professional coaches should be going along to the grassroots clubs to coach the team.

 

That way you have coaches (that are being paid) at grassroots, the grassroots scene is healthy, kids are still with their mates, attending school (not getting caught up in the routine and demands of a professional football while still a kid) and the churn shouldn’t happen as much. You might think that the coach is wasting their time coaching the entire team for that 1 kid, but are they not increasing the ability and standard for all children on the team? They might not all make it pro or semi-pro, but as a byproduct it increases the standard of football at grassroots rather than it being ‘reluctant parent doing it so the 7 players that didn’t get a team aren’t turned away’. It's a pet peeve of mine how little regard we have for coaches in this country, where only elite level coaches get paid (or community coaches which are more sports activators and PE Cover providers than football coaches). 

 

I think it'd also show those who DO want to coach and aren't just doing it because they can't do anything else (which goes back to former academy players not being prepared for life outside of football). There are plenty of coaches I can think of that are coaching professionally at youth level that wouldn't be doing it if they weren't being paid or weren't attached to a professional football club. There's no way they'd be doing it at grassroots level as they don't love coaching, they just like that they have job and can use it to brag about on their linkedin profile or whatever. 

 

I don’t for one minute believe it’ll ever happen, and I’m sure there’s plenty of downfalls I haven’t considered, but at the moment the way Academies currently operate doesn’t seem healthy. I supposed it might harm the open training mentality some grassroots have and increase trials and turnaway. I really don’t know.

I guess I really don’t like how football has become such a big business from top to bottom, and I mean bottom – I’m talking Grassroots. The amount of grassroots clubs out there that treat their teams below the age of 16 as Champions League contenders is nuts.

So really, I don't know what the answer is. I just know that I don't like the current setup and feel it's harmful to kids, and just some sort of ego factory for parents and coaches to use as a tool to brag about "My kid is at..." "I coached that player when he was a kid..." when in truth I think a vast majority of the pros that made it would probably have made it without Randy Noone coaching them for 12 months in the u9s. The amount of coaches I've met that flaunt they have a UEFA B and ridicule others on their level of qualifications in the region is nuts -- and yes, they're ex academy players that never made. Perhaps they have a chip on their shoulder and it isn't a true reflection of other coaches outside of the region (or even the environment these failed players where raised in). 

 

 

 

 

Great post couldn’t agree more mate.

[Guest HTT II]

45 minutes ago, OCK said:

It might have changed over the last ten years, but they'd literally look at the parents and make a decision based on the parent's build and height. It hasn't been unheard of for some ethnicities to be turned away too, simply due to their cultural diets and habits (not officially of course). The whole thing is stone age people piloting a starship at times. I know of one academy player that was measuring themselves constantly as they knew if they weren't 6' they would get binned since they were a CB. KIDS doing this. Like anyone u18 needs that stressor or blatant body shaming. It's bizzare. 

 

You don't get that (or shouldn't get that anywhere) at grassroots level. 

 

Strangely, I think the way that women's football do it is for the best, and it used to be how men's football was. Everyone plays for their grassroots team (and is encouraged to) then the talented players are invited to attend a regional talent centre once a week for extra coaching. Although the end product here is to produce England players, not Club players, so I guess that plays a part in it. 

Yes, at SAFC we were asked our weight, height (as parents), ethnicity, all kinds. Boro have been much better at that mind, they haven’t asked us to sign any such documents regarding stuff like that. NUFC again are apparently much stricter and ask about any illness in the family like heart disease etc. and this for 7 year olds. My nephew’s mum suffers with Sickle cell disease and they asked about that in him and he doesn’t have it, but they ruled him out on that basis. It’s fucked up and needs monitored all these academies who are basically like meat factories. 

[Guest HTT II]

1 hour ago, Consortium of one said:

Great post OCK.  What puzzles me the most is what about the 7 or 8 y/o who goes on to lose the baby fat at 10 or 11?  What about the puny shrimp that has a growth spurt?  Those children who get jettisoned or never had a chance because they weren't physically (or even emotionally) ready at 8 could be so much better if they had the same chance.  

My nephew when he was 7, honestly, he was at a tournament and Peter Beardsley was there with his son Drew, now an academy coach (and he’s awful), my nephew’s team played against his team and my nephew’s team won and Beardsley thought I was my nephew’s dad and said your boy can do stuff with a football I couldn’t do in an England shirt, that’s how it all got started, moving him on to this so-called top team and then the academy. He was weak as piss, smaller than a lot of other kids his age, and lazy, granted, but today he’s 6 ft plus and a fitness freak and is into martial arts, one of the kids they took on at the same time was a big lad and could hit a ball as hard as anything, he’d score from the halfway line for example, now that same kid, lovely kid, is 18 stone, a piss head and still plays but is absolute shite with the ball at his feet. He made it upto 14 at NUFC’s academy and then was just let go once everyone caught up with him physically and him hitting the ball hard wasn’t a ‘skill’

 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by HTT II

[sh74]

When my son was at the academy he was technically very good with the ball but wasn’t very strong and at the parents evenings was told he needs to be more aggressive. The lads in his team they loved was the ones who were like headless chickens with the ball but could put a heavy tackle in and get a ‘get in son’ from the coaches when they they went full blooded into one. My son lasted u9’s till u12’s. 

[Guest HTT II]

7 minutes ago, sh74 said:

When my son was at the academy he was technically very good with the ball but wasn’t very strong and at the parents evenings was told he needs to be more aggressive. The lads in his team they loved was the ones who were like headless chickens with the ball but could put a heavy tackle in and get a ‘get in son’ from the coaches when they they went full blooded into one. My son lasted u9’s till u12’s. 

It’s like that across all 3 NE academies from my experience, I hope your boy is still enjoying his footy and loving it basically. They look for kids who are quick, run their little balls off and never stop running, yet when they get to 7-aside and then 11-aside they often struggle because they don’t have technique, skills or flair, just energy, pace and running ability, that doesn’t work well when you often don’t have the ball or when you have it you can’t just knock the ball past another kid and skin him with pace, the coaching at that level is poor too. There are far better coaches, even from dads with just an FA L1 badge who are better than many of the (again failed former academy products) coaching kids at academies. 

[Guest HTT II]

My boy, isn’t slow, but he’s not rapid, but he slows the game down when he gets the ball and draws his man in then he skins him with unbelievable footwork/skill/flair but he then tries to do it again and again, so he will beat 2/3 men and then has to shield the ball which he’s really good at as he’s strong as an ox, but by that time a move has broken down or like a boxer he’s punched himself out energy wise, his coaches at grassroots level have been working so hard on that side of his game and it’s paying off. He’s 7 and  can do 213 kick ups and I just love watching him play, how he protects the ball, can skin someone from a stand still or just running/dribbling, without having to use any blistering pace (which he doesn’t have), he’s genuinely two footed so often plays either wing, but he’s been played down the middle as a forward lately and the ball just sticks with him.
 

He’s flat footed though and very rash in a challenge, he will charge forward like a bull and just dive in, again his coaches have worked so hard on that side of his game and he’s improving. What I love most about him is his flair and confidence, he scored a rabona the other week and once beat the ‘keeper, put the ball on the line and then headed it in, the other coaches and parents were fuming, fuck off he’s a bairn living his dream as a kid. 
 

He’s 7, but now plays for his Saturday team’s under 9s at 7v7 and he has so much fun because he’ll skin a few kids and then suddenly he has all that space and time and he’s getting his shots off from distance, not great power, but good technique, curlers, top bins as he calls it. I think 7 aside suits his game better on a bigger pitch, but the worry is 11v11 and off-sides and of course when they become teenagers. For me, it’s all about how he enjoys his game and just gets what he can out of it wherever it takes him, as a dad, it’s an absolute buzz watching him play and I’m 42 and played from the age of 7 all these years and I can’t do anything like he can and I always tell him be grateful, we played on concrete roads, you have 4G pitches, the best boots, flood lights, the best facilities and in his Sunday team a UEFA B coach who coached in Australia and the MLS in America. I know the odds of him making it at any level is literally lottery winning odds, but the joy watching him and the joy he gets playing and doing his thing is immense as a dad and I imagine for him, fucking huge him just going out an expressing himself the way he does.

[Lazarus]

@HTT II Your keyboard must be sitting in the corner crying after a thrashing like that.

[Guest HTT II]

6 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

@HTT II Your keyboard must be sitting in the corner crying after a thrashing like that.

aye ha ha 

[Guest HTT II]

Seriously watching kids at this level play just for the sheer fun of it, for the love of it, no matter how good or not they are, well it makes my weekend and it’s such a joy to watch, beats any pro footy game any day of the week. And we have some serious talents here in the NE in our kids and grassroots coaches.

[Rafalove]

Those posts are pretty brief by htt’s standards

 

 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Rafalove

[et tu brute]

That loan transfer of that young Mexican striker looks a bit dodgy. He hasn't been anywhere near the U23 squad since he signed.

[Lazarus]

14 hours ago, et tu brute said:

That loan transfer of that young Mexican striker looks a bit dodgy. He hasn't been anywhere near the U23 squad since he signed.

 

Hes been in the first team mate

[Newcastle Fan]

15 hours ago, et tu brute said:

That loan transfer of that young Mexican striker looks a bit dodgy. He hasn't been anywhere near the U23 squad since he signed.

 

I think it was one final piss take from Ashley.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Newcastle Fan

[sh74]

1 hour ago, Newcastle Fan said:

 

I think it was one final piss take from Ashley.

 

 

 

Wasn’t the fat pig in the film.

[LV]

2 minutes ago, sh74 said:

Wasn’t the fat pig in the film.

Yep 

[nbthree3]

 

[Kanj]

Any analysis if this is good?

[SUPERTOON]

He was my coach when I played for Sunderland when I was under 14/15 ?

[Rafalove]

Tell us about him then you traitor 

[SUPERTOON]

7 minutes ago, Rafalove said:

Tell us about him then you traitor 

? he had just retired when I was there from the youth team due to Injury, from what I remember he was very well liked and respected but it was years ago so in terms of his ability I can’t say much.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by SUPERTOON

[Groundhog63]

29 minutes ago, Kanji said:

Any analysis if this is good?

Must be shite. RTG have pied him off

[Guest HTT II]

1 hour ago, nbthree3 said:

 

Can’t say if he’s decent or anything as I’ve not seem him coach, but he comes across very well and is highly thought of at the mackems, to be fair their set up is great and pisses all over ours, they have some quality coaches there, and seem to have a good number of very good young coaches, but they do like them young in chicken town anyway…

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by HTT II

[Guest HTT II]

13 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

? he had just retired when I was there from the youth team due to Injury, from what I remember he was very well liked and respected but it was years ago so in terms of his ability I can’t say much.

 

 

 

Dirty mackem…

[robbo_11]

Interesting that out of the two lads with Morton it is McEntee who is deemed the more promising player as opposed to Tom Allan, who at 22, seems to have not even found his level in Scotland. Out of the players on loan listed on .com could only really see Vilca, Longstaff and Watts potentially get an opportunity longer term to prove their worth.

[Guest HTT II]

4 hours ago, robbo_11 said:

Interesting that out of the two lads with Morton it is McEntee who is deemed the more promising player as opposed to Tom Allan, who at 22, seems to have not even found his level in Scotland. Out of the players on loan listed on .com could only really see Vilca, Longstaff and Watts potentially get an opportunity longer term to prove their worth.

None of them at our academy is good enough and never will be, major overhauls are needed massively!

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by HTT II