Paul Gascoigne

[Thomson Mouse]

Nope. He's a cock. Absolutely no idea.

[Ronaldo]

TM, I might be whatever but I also don't say anything on here I wouldn't say in person. We both know you wouldn't, so just give it a rest, yeah. Not interested in your resentment.

 

KI, I've had addictions, sure. The first step to being decent is to take responsibility for your actions and how they affect those around you. Obviously that goes against this 'no fault' utter bollocks. Of course it's partially the alcoholic's fault for taking a drink - especially when they've access to the best of the best in professional help. I understand it's far more difficult for some to stop than others, and those who make the effort have my full respect. Gazza's just a coward, a lowlife wife-beating scumbag who doesn't really deserve this amount of discussion.

[Andymc1]

TM, I might be whatever but I also don't say anything on here I wouldn't say in person. We both know you wouldn't, so just give it a rest, yeah. Not interested in your resentment.

 

 

[Thomson Mouse]

TM, I might be whatever but I also don't say anything on here I wouldn't say in person. We both know you wouldn't, so just give it a rest, yeah. Not interested in your resentment.

 

KI, I've had addictions, sure. The first step to being decent is to take responsibility for your actions and how they affect those around you. Obviously that goes against this 'no fault' utter bollocks. Of course it's partially the alcoholic's fault for taking a drink - especially when they've access to the best of the best in professional help. I understand it's far more difficult for some to stop than others, and those who make the effort have my full respect. Gazza's just a coward, a lowlife wife-beating scumbag who doesn't really deserve this amount of discussion.

 

Mate, if you were such a cock in real life I'd happily say it to your face.

 

It's very unlikely to happen though as I live half way across the world and if I was home you wouldn't be the first person I'd be looking up.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

If you can't find in yourself some kind of empathy for Paul Gascoigne or show some kind of sadness for him then its pretty damn sad given he is a genuine human being.

 

He's no monster, he's no saint, but he's a troubled troubled man and has been throughout his entire adult life. I feel sorry for him personally, desperately sorry.

 

I know alcoholics and have lived among them and with them. Its not fucking nice and its so so hard for the individual even with the best of help and their own best intentions to stay sober to do just that.

 

Is it a disease? I'm not so sure, I think its an escape from real problems like depression, stress, anxiety and personality disorders and with alcohol being so easy and cheap to obtain and so easy to become hooked on and hard to get away from, it then takes over completey and ruins the individual in every way pretty much.

 

Body, mind, career, family, relationships, friends, finances. Its fucking devastating as Paul's whole life shows really.

 

I refuse to call him 'Gazza' by the way, that's part of the problem. For him to recover he needs removed from the cult of Gazza if you like, and all those attached or who attache themselves to it. Unfortunately I feel given his own personality and the footy side of things that is impossible.

 

The future is very grim for him, he will do well to be here in the next 2 -3 years I suspect sadly.

[Guest firetotheworks]

TM, I might be whatever but I also don't say anything on here I wouldn't say in person. We both know you wouldn't, so just give it a rest, yeah. Not interested in your resentment.

 

KI, I've had addictions, sure. The first step to being decent is to take responsibility for your actions and how they affect those around you. Obviously that goes against this 'no fault' utter bollocks. Of course it's partially the alcoholic's fault for taking a drink - especially when they've access to the best of the best in professional help. I understand it's far more difficult for some to stop than others, and those who make the effort have my full respect. Gazza's just a coward, a lowlife wife-beating scumbag who doesn't really deserve this amount of discussion.

 

So your opinion is that he should be doing better based on what you know about him, which I assume you've taken from him being in the public eye, the stories about him, talk ins, interviews, headlines etc as someone with no real knowledge of mental health problems, addiction, his personality and his specific circumstances surrounding his mental health and his addiction?

 

I'm not sure how he hasn't taken responsibility considering the amount of times that he's went into rehab and then relapsed tbh, in my eyes that's him being decent and being responsible for his actions by attempting to get better. At this stage the only person that he's really hurting is himself and he doesn't look like he's reveling in or happy with his problems, so I fail to see how you think rational decision making should be a part of his mind set at this point when all of the evidence points to him not being in a rational state of mind at all.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

No fault of his own ffs. Christ.

 

Don't take this personally, but you're everything that's wrong with the world.

 

Yeah, demonstrating belief in one's ability to control and suppress destructive urges is everything that's wrong, Ian.  

 

Your lack of empathy is just frightening. Your belief that everyone can just decide to be amazing no matter what the external factors are is what leads to people being ignored and neglected on a massive scale, including by governments.

[Ronaldo]

Ian if you can't or won't acknowledge the difference between deciding 'to be amazing no matter what' and taking (at least partial) responsibility for one's actions there's nowt to say, really.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Never had Ronny down as a heartless bastard like...

[Ronaldo]

That's really cute, HTT, but it isn't really a case of  having a heart or not. It comes down whether you believe that an addiction implies a person can be absolved of all blame for their actions.

 

As for the sympathy aspect. If I knew nothing about Gazza - just another bloke shortening his life and severing relationships because he's compelled to get wasted - yeah, he'd have my sympathy, sure. Unfortunately, it's hard for me to feel any degree for sympathy for someone who's had his opportunities and done what he's done.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I'm joking Ron, I have weighed up whether he deserves any sympathy etc. myself, but because I've experienced what drink can do to people first hand, I just feel sorry for the bloke. He is literally drinking himself to death, most of which is to block out depression, anxiety, stress and other mental issues all of which are far more serious IMO than alcoholism which has never been fully addressed in him or by him. So the drink it is!

 

As a person we all know he beat up his wife, is a shit father, has blown lots of money, has ruined his career and has also had lots of help and support and yet again has blown it - it seems.

 

But... that's what alcoholism can do to a person, it wrecks them beyond repair almost.

 

Don't drink Gazza, say no. It's not as easy as that, the man relies on drinking to basically function which to us would be odd but to him normal, it's his only way basically. Imagine that, imagine having nothing in your life except for drink to look forward to.

 

I know alcoholics and they often wish they were dead as that would be the only way to prevent them from having another drink. We can have a good drink and then stop, they can't, it's drink drink drink. They don't want to drink to get pissed, to be merry, they drink because that's the only way for them to function. It's crippling and killing people, Gascoigne especially.

 

Howay man, he is a fella Geordie, a decent guy underneath everything who made people happy whenever they watched him play. He deserves our empathy, our sadness. Does he deserve more support, more chances? I'm not so sure, he seems hell bent on drinking himself to death.

 

What he does need IMO is to be removed from the cult of Gazza, those that behold him to it and his environment. He basically needs sectioned and placed in care for a few years where he can recover and help establish what turned him to drink and what keeps him attached to it - his various states of mental illness. The true disease or illness.

 

Without he will be found dead soon and that would be a huge tragedy and indeed loss.

[Thomson Mouse]

Would be interested in whether Ronaldo the sociopath has read Gazza's autobiography.

 

I suspect the answer would be yes no matter what though.

[Mick]

No fault of his own ffs. Christ.

 

Don't take this personally, but you're everything that's wrong with the world.

 

Yeah, demonstrating belief in one's ability to control and suppress destructive urges is everything that's wrong, Ian.  

 

Your lack of empathy is just frightening. Your belief that everyone can just decide to be amazing no matter what the external factors are is what leads to people being ignored and neglected on a massive scale, including by governments.

[Ronaldo]

Would be interested in whether Ronaldo the sociopath has read Gazza's autobiography.

 

I suspect the answer would be yes no matter what though.

 

No, I haven't. Does his book offer an excuse for beating his wife and kids for years and also explains why it isn't remotely his fault for the drinking?

 

Honestly, man, do one. You want to hero worship a lowlife like that because he was born in the same postcode area and call other people names for suggesting a modicum of blame might actually rest with him.

[Incognito]

I suspect a young Gascoigne in today's day and age wouldn't have become what he has become. There was a drinking culture in football that he became part of. The likes of Bryan Robson, the day's England captain, Paul McGrath and Graeme Souness were hardened drinkers. And then Gazza went and did Italia 90, and he became part of it. Every man in the country would have bought Gazza a pint then. He was probably idolised more than any player before or since, and with what had gone on in his childhood, ie watching a mate of his getting killed, it all became too much.

 

Excuses? Possibly,  But I think it's fair to say the adulation he received added to the mental health problems he clearly has always had , pushed him down the slippery slope. I, for one, hope he gets well, but I don't think he has the tools in his kit to fix himself, and that is probably the saddest part of the story.

[Leazes_End_Mag]

If you can't find in yourself some kind of empathy for Paul Gascoigne or show some kind of sadness for him then its pretty damn sad given he is a genuine human being.

 

He's no monster, he's no saint, but he's a troubled troubled man and has been throughout his entire adult life. I feel sorry for him personally, desperately sorry.

 

I know alcoholics and have lived among them and with them. Its not f***ing nice and its so so hard for the individual even with the best of help and their own best intentions to stay sober to do just that.

 

Is it a disease? I'm not so sure, I think its an escape from real problems like depression, stress, anxiety and personality disorders and with alcohol being so easy and cheap to obtain and so easy to become hooked on and hard to get away from, it then takes over completey and ruins the individual in every way pretty much.

 

Body, mind, career, family, relationships, friends, finances. Its f***ing devastating as Paul's whole life shows really.

 

I refuse to call him 'Gazza' by the way, that's part of the problem. For him to recover he needs removed from the cult of Gazza if you like, and all those attached or who attache themselves to it. Unfortunately I feel given his own personality and the footy side of things that is impossible.

 

The future is very grim for him, he will do well to be here in the next 2 -3 years I suspect sadly.

Bang on.

[Guest firetotheworks]

That's really cute, HTT, but it isn't really a case of  having a heart or not. It comes down whether you believe that an addiction implies a person can be absolved of all blame for their actions.

 

As for the sympathy aspect. If I knew nothing about Gazza - just another bloke shortening his life and severing relationships because he's compelled to get wasted - yeah, he'd have my sympathy, sure. Unfortunately, it's hard for me to feel any degree for sympathy for someone who's had his opportunities and done what he's done.

 

How many addicts do you know or know of that haven't relapsed? Serious question because if you're using him as an example then it's likely you'd actually have sympathy for very, very few addicts. Bearing in mind this is an addict with various mental health problems.

 

Also, no one is saying that he has absolutely zero blame, or any modicum of blame as you put it, of course there's some portion of blame that it's understandable to throw at him, which he's said himself. The point is more that at this stage it's past the point of blame because he's quite clearly deeply into being an addict. Without going too much into it or making it about me, I experienced physical abuse from the same partner multiple times (yeah, I know, lol it's funny because she's a woman and I'm a man and me standing there and taking it means I'm less of a man etc) and obviously there's no excuse for it at all, but there's also a lot more to it than them just simply being a scumbag.

[Thomson Mouse]

Would be interested in whether Ronaldo the sociopath has read Gazza's autobiography.

 

I suspect the answer would be yes no matter what though.

 

No, I haven't. Does his book offer an excuse for beating his wife and kids for years and also explains why it isn't remotely his fault for the drinking?

 

Honestly, man, do one. You want to hero worship a lowlife like that because he was born in the same postcode area and call other people names for suggesting a modicum of blame might actually rest with him.

 

Nah mate, don't hero worship him.

 

I do feel sorry for him. I've worked closely with people that have mental health conditions similar to his and know for a fact it's not a case of 'making choices' or 'pulling your socks up' to get yourself out of it.

 

I do think you're a complete fuckwit for saying what you have. Try reading his book, it'll give you a clue into the person he is. Also, what HTT said.

[HawK]

http://i.giphy.com/GjYjLvGErsggg.gif

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I just don't get the motivation behind being so keen to apportion 'blame'. We're all a product of our genetics and our environment. So what if he could possibly have avoided some drinking at some point in the past? Who knows what demons he was hiding from and what his sober life was like for him?

 

It's fair enough saying 'he has to take responsibility', and to some extent he has. But to what end? Is the conclusion that we shouldn't help people and show compassion when they fail in this way?

[KaKa]

Gazza clearly has major issues that are feeding into his alcoholism, but unless he can stop the drinking long enough to address those things he has no chance. Doesn't seem he's got it in him to do so at this point, and so it's not looking good at all.

 

Even when he was younger and he was so over the top with the silly antics outside of drinking, it always felt like that was a bit of a crutch or defence mechanism. At this point I doubt the guy even knows who he really is, and it appears he hasn't for a long time. Dude is so far gone man.

 

Damn shame.

[Bimpy474]

I just don't get the motivation behind being so keen to apportion 'blame'. We're all a product of our genetics and our environment. So what if he could possibly have avoided some drinking at some point in the past? Who knows what demons he was hiding from and what his sober life was like for him?

 

It's fair enough saying 'he has to take responsibility', and to some extent he has. But to what end? Is the conclusion that we shouldn't help people and show compassion when they fail in this way?

 

Of course not but when you do stop, if that person continues to throw that help back in your face. I guess each individual has their limit to what they can take. As with everything there are some complete over reactions. If you think he's to blame, partly or wholly you a unsympathetic, heartless pile of unfeeling snot. If you think it's not his fault at all, you're a soft shite who thinks Hitler was only misguided.

 

It's not as clear cut as that obviously, unfortunately sometimes with a blog/online forum like this people tend to jump on each other. Blurs the discussion in the end.

 

I know i've had enough of lies, violence, seeing someone so drunk it's amazing they're still alive and knowing they'll drive their kids to school the next day. Hearing bullshit as to why they have a black eye or have no money and need to borrow some to feed their kids. Even though you gave them money the previous day for the very same thing.

 

No one will be right in this, or wrong for matter, it just becomes a vicious circle and never looks like it will ever end.

 

 

[Ronaldo]

Also, no one is saying that he has absolutely zero blame

 

They did, though. That's the whole point. Do I think it's all his fault? No. I never implied an alcoholic didn't deserve sympathy if they relapse, either. Give them as much support as they need, but for for Christ's sake don't absolve them of all blame, that's like saying they're fighting a losing battle.

[Altamullan]

I suspect a young Gascoigne in today's day and age wouldn't have become what he has become. There was a drinking culture in football that he became part of. The likes of Bryan Robson, the day's England captain, Paul McGrath and Graeme Souness were hardened drinkers. And then Gazza went and did Italia 90, and he became part of it. Every man in the country would have bought Gazza a pint then. He was probably idolised more than any player before or since, and with what had gone on in his childhood, ie watching a mate of his getting killed, it all became too much.

 

Excuses? Possibly,  But I think it's fair to say the adulation he received added to the mental health problems he clearly has always had , pushed him down the slippery slope. I, for one, hope he gets well, but I don't think he has the tools in his kit to fix himself, and that is probably the saddest part of the story.

Putting the 'being shit at life' bit slightly to one side, I suspect a young Gazza wouldn't progress through academies these days as the 'chosen ones' all seem like little robots. Very technically adept, competitive, and most of all very good at listening/paying attention/being well-behaved. Not many who look like they would crack you up on the coach or who have the attention span of a goldfish. Watch a fair bit of under 7 & under 8 and the 'elite' (yep, that's what they call them...) kids seem to have a pretty joyless experience of footy. Real shame, given they're all sold the dream and risk having all their 'self-esteem eggs' in one basket but even from those who last until under 9's, less than 1 in 500 are likely to have a professional career after 21. That said, if someone had appreciated the talent of a young Paul, I really hope he would be better supported and nurtured these days (bizarre as it is, I really wish he'd went to Man Utd instead of Spurs- think Fergie may have done a Giggsy on him). Clubs have a duty of care to their young lads, the kind of pressure they're under must mess with their minds; even those from loving well-balanced families.

[ikri]

I suspect a young Gascoigne in today's day and age wouldn't have become what he has become. There was a drinking culture in football that he became part of. The likes of Bryan Robson, the day's England captain, Paul McGrath and Graeme Souness were hardened drinkers. And then Gazza went and did Italia 90, and he became part of it. Every man in the country would have bought Gazza a pint then. He was probably idolised more than any player before or since, and with what had gone on in his childhood, ie watching a mate of his getting killed, it all became too much.

 

Excuses? Possibly,  But I think it's fair to say the adulation he received added to the mental health problems he clearly has always had , pushed him down the slippery slope. I, for one, hope he gets well, but I don't think he has the tools in his kit to fix himself, and that is probably the saddest part of the story.

Putting the 'being shit at life' bit slightly to one side, I suspect a young Gazza wouldn't progress through academies these days as the 'chosen ones' all seem like little robots. Very technically adept, competitive, and most of all very good at listening/paying attention/being well-behaved. Not many who look like they would crack you up on the coach or who have the attention span of a goldfish. Watch a fair bit of under 7 & under 8 and the 'elite' (yep, that's what they call them...) kids seem to have a pretty joyless experience of footy. Real shame, given they're all sold the dream and risk having all their 'self-esteem eggs' in one basket but even from those who last until under 9's, less than 1 in 500 are likely to have a professional career after 21. That said, if someone had appreciated the talent of a young Paul, I really hope he would be better supported and nurtured these days (bizarre as it is, I really wish he'd went to Man Utd instead of Spurs- think Fergie may have done a Giggsy on him). Clubs have a duty of care to their young lads, the kind of pressure they're under must mess with their minds; even those from loving well-balanced families.

 

Putting Gascoigne in a team alongside Bryan Robson & Paul McGrath would not have been a great idea if you wanted him to avoid drinking.