The College Dropout Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 It is luck. Your relying on the other team missing 4 or 5 very good chances, for the one chance that you create. The defensive gameplan does rely on luck. Football always depends on luck. Very little details often make the difference between winning and losing in the very big games. Just look at Schweinsteiger's penalty against Chech - great, excellent penalty - that went against the post. Look at Drogba's goal against them - how often will he score a header like that in his whole career? Once? Twice? You always need luck, luck with your players, luck with the referees, luck with the opponents. That's football, that's life. Chelsea are a poor example. That run was heaven sent and extremely lucky. Bayern missed a hatful. Barca missed a hatful at the Bridge. Cech saved 4 outta 7 penalties. Harsh to claim that as luck tbh As for the rest there was no more luck involved than there was for Barca a few years earlier though tbf, Chelsea battered them, had a couple of solid penalty shouts waved away, and then went behind in the final minute. Same as Inter who sat back and and took a battering away to Barca in the Semis and conceded a legitimate goal which was flagged off. If your keeper saves 2 penalties that would've meant you would lose each time, luck might not be the word but God is certainly on your side. Really? I'm no Barca fanboy but they dominated the Chelsea games although Chelsea looked very dangerous on the counter at the Bridge. But eventually, Chelsea buckled under the heavy pressure which is often the case when you defend all game (same thing happened against Barca). Barca went on to dominate the final. Chelsea on the other hand can't have had anymore than 8 attempts on target in total in the semi's/final whilst the other teams, missed sitters, hit the post etc. My point is, if the Chelsea tactic is your plan. 9/10 you will lose. Cech played absolute blinders. Messi/Robben/Gomez/Fabregas would be unhappy with their finishing. That Greece team weren't so fortunate when they did the impossible. Battered probably wasn't the right word to be fair, Barcelona were certainly lucky not to be 2 behind though had Droba had his shooting boots on/the referee gave a penalty for the stone wall push. And in 2012, although Chelsea did sit back and invite pressure, they did still score 4 goals over the 2 legs when they needed too, the same against Munich, they conceded late but scored when it mattered, it's entirely possible they could have done so again if Robben had have tucked his penalty away. They had 1 shot on target against Bayern in 120 mins. There was no reason to think Chelsea would've scored their first after Muller scored. For a team to score with their first attempt on target on the stroke of FT is jammy as owt anyway. Obviously they won the tournament and deserved it because the facts speak for themselves. I just think that type of victory is so rare in football, for a side to have so many key moments go in their favour was miraculous. It was the greatest cup run i've ever seen simply because they rode their luck so many times and scored at the vital moments with excellent accuracy (not a chance wasted). If England want to try that route, we will get embarrassed or go out with a wimper. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Walker was superb 89 through to 93 . A very under rated centre back . Without doubt the quickest centre back I've seen. Des Walker was underrated by who? England fans used to sing "You'll never beat Des Walker" must have been just for banter. He was the best centre back of his generation tbf. Also,I hope Liverpool reserve/U18 players are keeping themselves in top nick just in case Roy gives them a buzz to replace the next crock! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Terry IS a great leader though and pretty good with his feet. He's never been quick but he's rarely exposed for that although that's partly due to having pacy CB partners. So his leadership is a great asset (pre Bridge/Anton gate especially) and would push him ahead of 1 or 2 who are better talents. agreed on that point - he does have that extra quality about him and it's proved to be a major asset, but mainly for chelsea, not england. in fact that 'quality' of his leadership and determination actually proved to be the single biggest liability england had in 2010. disagreeing with capello whilst talking to the press for instance, or the fact that against Germany he wanted to act like the hero and went walk-about upfield, leaving the likes of Barry horribly exposed on the counter attack. fucking prick. he also got caught for pace every other week around the time the bridge scandal was coming out. he seems to have adjusted to his failing body by now, but it made him look like he was finished for a good 6-8 months. as someone defending deep he's still got it, but he can't defend a high line anymore, not that he will need to with Hodgson's England. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Walker was superb 89 through to 93 . A very under rated centre back . Without doubt the quickest centre back I've seen. When he was alive my granda used to always go on about Walker and said he was absolutely brilliant. Don't know if it is true or not but he said he was never the same player after playing over in Italy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Didn't Ferdinand only play in 2 international tournaments btw? (World Cups 2002 & 2006, although injuries and being a pillhead didn't help of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Walker was superb 89 through to 93 . A very under rated centre back . Without doubt the quickest centre back I've seen. When he was alive my granda used to always go on about Walker and said he was absolutely brilliant. Don't know if it is true or not but he said he was never the same player after playing over in Italy. i'll have to take his word for it, as i only remember Walker from Sampdoria onward and he was absolutely abysmal for england at that time and pretty ordinary at club level. seems his pace masked his weaknesses when younger and when that went there was nothing outstanding about him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 I'd have taken King and Woodgate over Terry every time. He's been very lucky in terms of England that they were/are both wrecks. I'd have taken King and Woodgate over Terry every time. He's been very lucky in terms of England that they were/are both wrecks. Terry's always been better than Woodgate, mate. It's tempting to say otherwise but Terry's consistently been exceptional for Chelsea, up until the last couple of seasons at least. Woodgate's very overrated on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 On his day, Woodgate was an exceptional CB, one of the best in the country in fact. It's a shame that his career has turned out like it has, that is, injury after injury - it basically ruined him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 That compounded with a shocking attitude. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 How come? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 *snort* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Walker was superb 89 through to 93 . A very under rated centre back . Without doubt the quickest centre back I've seen. When he was alive my granda used to always go on about Walker and said he was absolutely brilliant. Don't know if it is true or not but he said he was never the same player after playing over in Italy. IIRC they made him a full back at Sampdoria, which didn't suit him. The Italians had a much more technical game and he couldn't adjust. He was superb at one-on-ones. The Notts Forest chant of 'you'll never beat Des Walker' had some substance. He played a big part in their revival around the late 80's, because they could charge forward, leaving him alone at the back in the knowledge that he'd snuff out any counter attacks. Your reference to your granda is a bit of a worry for the likes of me. It wasn't that long ago, was it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Walker was superb 89 through to 93 . A very under rated centre back . Without doubt the quickest centre back I've seen. When he was alive my granda used to always go on about Walker and said he was absolutely brilliant. Don't know if it is true or not but he said he was never the same player after playing over in Italy. Something to do with the Sampdoria manager playing him at left back. I think it may have been Sven. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 They bought him to replace the ageing Mannini or Vierchowod but they both had excellent seasons , when Samp's first choice left back got injured he played there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thespence Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Jay Spearing must be a Scott Parker injury away from making the squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Just a shame we didn't sign Jose Enrique 6 weeks earlier otherwise we could have given him British citizenship and called him up in time for the Semi Finals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Des Walker was a great Defender, not so great on the ball though. So fast. Nottm Forest fans did used to chant that, "You'll never beat Des Walker" but I beg to differ. type this into a well known video site. "Newcastle v Nottingham Forest, Dec 13th 1986 - Newcastle Goal - Peter Beardsley" Even the other night on soccer aid he was flying around like someone half his age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I honestly don't think we will get out of the group stages. In fact I think theirs more of a chance of us losing all 3 games then their is of us winning just one of those games. If Spain don't win it then I think France will. They have came a long way since the World Cup and have some great players playing for them. I can see them tearing us apart in the first game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 We won't lose all three games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 We won't lose all three games. Really, France are very very strong, probably the 2nd best team there. Sweden have a decent game and will give us a game and are more than capable of beating us, they can be so organised and they have a decent track record against us. Ukraine have some good player, they are playing at home in front of their own fans, this is their last chance to have a decent tournament before most of their stars retire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Germany and Holland are the two strongest teams for me. Reckon that will be the final. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 We're not going to win the thing but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we'll be hard to beat and with that you always have a chance in games. We'll probably get four points which may be enough to scrape through, then we'll be shit on by the first decent team we come up against after that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 We're not going to win the thing but there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we'll be hard to beat and with that you always have a chance in games. We'll probably get four points which may be enough to scrape through, then we'll be shit on by the first decent team we come up against after that. Aye, this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Group stage for me. I honestly think Ireland have a better chance of getting out of their group stage than we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 'Decent team' which would be Spain btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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