The England Thread

[Parky]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul.

 

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

 

 

Spurs have put the breaks on spending?

 

I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams.

 

I wonder if that is coincidence or perhaps due to the new rules coming in regarding homegrown players. I do think those rules will help a bit but the sad truth is we are not producing players good enough to challenge these foreigners for a place in the team. It's not that they don't get a chance to improve but that they're not good enough. We could have given Ramage or Huntington a thousand games but they'd never have been as good as Coloccini or Enrique. So to use Newcastle as an example our English kids just weren't talented enough so we got the chequebook out and scouted abroad.

 

I do take the point our youngsters need more gametime but they might be better off getting that gametime in the Championship, proving their ability and then a Prem team will take the punt. Plenty have gone that route.

 

Haven't Arsenal just signed Giroud and Podolski too?

 

They played 11 foreginers for a spell. But the rule changes means that Eng players are being sought out or trained or given a chance.

[Ketsbaia]

England were competitive for a bit but outclassed near the end - it was a miracle they got to penalties. They're a poor side, with awful tournaments for Young and Rooney in particular. Italy deserved the win tonight, despite Balotelli being atrocious. How many chances did he want? Wasting free kicks by blasting them way over the bar? Ridiculous. Pirlo was fantastic though, he's so wonderful to watch.

 

Academy was really good though. Atmosphere was electric.

[Joe_F]

Thing Hodgson and England made the most of an extremely messy buildup to the tournament. Whatever people say about Lampard, and a lot of bollocks has been said down the years by tabloid journos, he's a massive danger in the right areas, he can play people in and his presence was missed. Gerrard did his best but we needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance and Lampard ticks those boxes. Parker is a pretty limited player but he does what he's told and gives his all. It typified England's performance here and throughout the tournament - disciplined but lacking skill or flair.

 

Hodgson will come out of it with credit and he deserves to. Looking at the England squad we had to play the way we did, we're in a period of transition with a weaker generation of players than the previous one and injuries throughout the team. We were a penalty shootout away from the semis.

 

I think the Germans have been overhyped this time around and struggled against Portugal but they will have a major advantage with 2 days' extra rest, not to mention the extra time the Italians played. Credit to Italy, the better team went through. At least England leave with their heads held high and have something to build upon for 2014. By then, new players will come through and we should be able to attack it with a stronger squad.

 

We've had just the same type of displays at previous tournaments when Lampard was in the side playing at his supposed peak. It's complete bollocks to think he'd have made any difference now when he's nowhere near the player he was.

 

 

Don't think he'd have made much difference because we were outplayed across the field. But we lacked any composure in midfield which was actually my point.

 

It maybe your point but it's not what you wrote.

[jdckelly]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul.

 

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

 

 

Spurs have put the breaks on spending?

 

I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams.

 

Adebayor is on loan and Modric is being sold. Kyle Walker came through as has Rose cause they haven't been instant cash heavy purchases in defence.

 

Modric cost a bomb and his and Van der Vaart's wages would have been massive, not to mention Adebayor's. Their bench at times last season was full of expensive international talent. As Sewelly said their spending has been higher than ever. Yet still Walker broke through.

Modric was 15m or so wasn't he? And Spurs do have a wage structure so while they would have been big its not Man City or Chelsea big, hell not even Arsenal big, main reason they won't sign Ade since city were paying half his wages

[Parky]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul.

 

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

 

 

Spurs have put the breaks on spending?

 

I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams.

 

Adebayor is on loan and Modric is being sold. Kyle Walker came through as has Rose cause they haven't been instant cash heavy purchases in defence.

 

Modric cost a bomb and his and Van der Vaart's wages would have been massive, not to mention Adebayor's. Their bench at times last season was full of expensive international talent. As Sewelly said their spending has been higher than ever. Yet still Walker broke through.

 

Spurs have a wage structure in iron.

ManC pay half his wages. Relatiely speaking for a senior dutch int VDV has been cheap. Walker came through cause they couldn't get a good deal on a right back for ages after Hutton was done with. Livermore and Huddlestone got games for the same reason.

[Cajun]

I sit somewhere in the middle but agree more with Mick. I think there's some truth that young English players don't get a chance quite as early as they would but at the same time if we had a young English version of Iniesta, Pirlo, Messi or Ronaldo sitting in Newcastle's reserves they'd get a run in our team sooner or later!

 

Carroll, Taylor and Shola all got their chance, Sammy Ameobi is getting a chance too and so is Ferguson. Hell even Ramage and Huntington got games. If we thought Forster was better than Krul he'd be in the team week in week out. Fact is this generation of England players aren't so good, that's why teams like Newcastle turn abroad for young players like Vuckic and Krul.

 

Clubs that have put the breaks on spend of late like Spurs and Arsenal are developing more Eng players it's a fact.

 

 

Spurs have put the breaks on spending?

 

I haven't seen the figures but in recent years I'd say they've spent more than all but a few teams.

 

I wonder if that is coincidence or perhaps due to the new rules coming in regarding homegrown players. I do think those rules will help a bit but the sad truth is we are not producing players good enough to challenge these foreigners for a place in the team. It's not that they don't get a chance to improve but that they're not good enough. We could have given Ramage or Huntington a thousand games but they'd never have been as good as Coloccini or Enrique. So to use Newcastle as an example our English kids just weren't talented enough so we got the chequebook out and scouted abroad.

 

I do take the point our youngsters need more gametime but they might be better off getting that gametime in the Championship, proving their ability and then a Prem team will take the punt. Plenty have gone that route.

 

Haven't Arsenal just signed Giroud and Podolski too?

 

They played 11 foreginers for a spell. But the rule changes means that Eng players are being sought out or trained or given a chance.

 

I would say it's more that they try and sign the most promising young players rather than specifically targeting English players. For example I would put Bale and Ramsey in the same bracket as Ox and Walcott, just hyped up, sought after young players.

[Mick]

Kids these days seem to be more interested in playing computer football then the real thing.  When I was a kid we'd spend most evenings outside kicking a ball around because we had nothing else to do, now kids just want to go into a room and play football on a computer against mates who want to do the same thing.  I'm not saying our coaching isn't a fault but I do think the pool of young players is smaller than it used to be.

[Parky]

Kids these days seem to be more interested in playing computer football then the real thing.  When I was a kid we'd spend most evenings outside kicking a ball around because we had nothing else to do, now kids just want to go into a room and play football on a computer against mates who want to do the same thing.  I'm not saying our coaching isn't a fault but I do think the pool of young players is smaller than it used to be.

 

Think that's part of the picture as well. Some of the heart has gone out of the domestic game and has been replaced by hair gel and alice bands ( I wonder where they came from??)

[Parky]

Laughing stock of Europe.

[Hanshithispantz]

Only 4 teams in Europe can laugh at us tbh

[ohmelads]

Thing Hodgson and England made the most of an extremely messy buildup to the tournament. Whatever people say about Lampard, and a lot of bollocks has been said down the years by tabloid journos, he's a massive danger in the right areas, he can play people in and his presence was missed. Gerrard did his best but we needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance and Lampard ticks those boxes. Parker is a pretty limited player but he does what he's told and gives his all. It typified England's performance here and throughout the tournament - disciplined but lacking skill or flair.

 

Hodgson will come out of it with credit and he deserves to. Looking at the England squad we had to play the way we did, we're in a period of transition with a weaker generation of players than the previous one and injuries throughout the team. We were a penalty shootout away from the semis.

 

I think the Germans have been overhyped this time around and struggled against Portugal but they will have a major advantage with 2 days' extra rest, not to mention the extra time the Italians played. Credit to Italy, the better team went through. At least England leave with their heads held high and have something to build upon for 2014. By then, new players will come through and we should be able to attack it with a stronger squad.

 

We've had just the same type of displays at previous tournaments when Lampard was in the side playing at his supposed peak. It's complete bollocks to think he'd have made any difference now when he's nowhere near the player he was.

 

 

Don't think he'd have made much difference because we were outplayed across the field. But we lacked any composure in midfield which was actually my point.

 

It maybe your point but it's not what you wrote.

 

Yes it is, you've even highlighted it in bold. We needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance.

 

Pirlo was the difference in that respect but I'm not saying Lampard would have filled that gap. It was merely another injury loss England didn't need in a tough game and Hodgson made best of what he had available. We rode our luck a bit and fought hard but we just didn't have the quality espescially in midfield.

[Parky]

England's dismal failure at the World Cup can be blamed on the Premier League's inability to promote home-grown talent, according to the president of Spain's La Liga.

 

José Luis Astiazarán has questioned the number of young foreign players at Premier League clubs and said the principal reason Spain have reached Sunday's final against Holland is that "77.1%" of footballers in their domestic league are Spanish-qualified, a direct result of home-grown players being given the opportunity in their clubs' first teams. In the Premier League fewer than 40% of players are English.

"In La Liga there are 77.1% Spanish players, 16.7% European and 6.7% non-European," Astiazarán said. "Our strategy is to work very hard with young home-grown players and to try to have a mix between them and experienced players.

 

"Why is it not a high number of foreign players in La Liga? Because we invest more and more in young Spanish players than in young foreign players. England has many times taken young players from outside who are 14, 16 years old. These kind of players are not English. This is one of the most important differences between Spain and England. We invest in young Spanish players. In Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United there are a lot of young Spanish, French and Italian players – maybe this is why at the moment you are not creating young English players.

 

"These [young foreign] players cannot play for the English national team. It's good to have goalkeepers from outside. But how many English goalkeepers are in the Premier League?"

 

Astiazarán said that unlike their English counterparts, Spanish clubs take youth development very seriously and are prepared to give young players opportunities in their first teams. "Spanish teams are working with a very serious strategy in the formation of young players," he said. "The players who become attached to clubs are from the local area and there is a fidelity [each way] and they start playing in the first division at 16 or 17."

[Joe_F]

Thing Hodgson and England made the most of an extremely messy buildup to the tournament. Whatever people say about Lampard, and a lot of bollocks has been said down the years by tabloid journos, he's a massive danger in the right areas, he can play people in and his presence was missed. Gerrard did his best but we needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance and Lampard ticks those boxes. Parker is a pretty limited player but he does what he's told and gives his all. It typified England's performance here and throughout the tournament - disciplined but lacking skill or flair.

 

Hodgson will come out of it with credit and he deserves to. Looking at the England squad we had to play the way we did, we're in a period of transition with a weaker generation of players than the previous one and injuries throughout the team. We were a penalty shootout away from the semis.

 

I think the Germans have been overhyped this time around and struggled against Portugal but they will have a major advantage with 2 days' extra rest, not to mention the extra time the Italians played. Credit to Italy, the better team went through. At least England leave with their heads held high and have something to build upon for 2014. By then, new players will come through and we should be able to attack it with a stronger squad.

 

We've had just the same type of displays at previous tournaments when Lampard was in the side playing at his supposed peak. It's complete bollocks to think he'd have made any difference now when he's nowhere near the player he was.

 

 

Don't think he'd have made much difference because we were outplayed across the field. But we lacked any composure in midfield which was actually my point.

 

It maybe your point but it's not what you wrote.

 

Yes it is, you've even highlighted it in bold. We needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance.

 

Pirlo was the difference in that respect but I'm not saying Lampard would have filled that gap. It was merely another injury loss England didn't need in a tough game and Hodgson made best of what he had available. We rode our luck a bit and fought hard but we just didn't have the quality espescially in midfield.

 

Which you said was Lampard ffs. "We missed his presence"...He "ticks the boxes"

 

 

[Mick]

 

 

Think that's part of the picture as well. Some of the heart has gone out of the domestic game and has been replaced by hair gel and alice bands ( I wonder where they came from??)

 

Things change and we're generally a load of lazy bastards now.  I played most of my football on school fields but you can't do that now because most fields have massive fences up to keep kids off them, it's crazy. 

[wormy]

Class interviews on SSN.

[madras]

Kids these days seem to be more interested in playing computer football then the real thing.  When I was a kid we'd spend most evenings outside kicking a ball around because we had nothing else to do, now kids just want to go into a room and play football on a computer against mates who want to do the same thing.  I'm not saying our coaching isn't a fault but I do think the pool of young players is smaller than it used to be.

we are going to sound like a pair of old farts here like but when they do play it's 'organised', club games, club training. you rarely see a large, get some mates together type game on a field now, not that this on its own would right things but it seems the desire to play is being lost.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

FWIW, talking about penalties

 

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9238/63227270.jpg

 

 

[ohmelads]

Thing Hodgson and England made the most of an extremely messy buildup to the tournament. Whatever people say about Lampard, and a lot of bollocks has been said down the years by tabloid journos, he's a massive danger in the right areas, he can play people in and his presence was missed. Gerrard did his best but we needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance and Lampard ticks those boxes. Parker is a pretty limited player but he does what he's told and gives his all. It typified England's performance here and throughout the tournament - disciplined but lacking skill or flair.

 

Hodgson will come out of it with credit and he deserves to. Looking at the England squad we had to play the way we did, we're in a period of transition with a weaker generation of players than the previous one and injuries throughout the team. We were a penalty shootout away from the semis.

 

I think the Germans have been overhyped this time around and struggled against Portugal but they will have a major advantage with 2 days' extra rest, not to mention the extra time the Italians played. Credit to Italy, the better team went through. At least England leave with their heads held high and have something to build upon for 2014. By then, new players will come through and we should be able to attack it with a stronger squad.

 

We've had just the same type of displays at previous tournaments when Lampard was in the side playing at his supposed peak. It's complete bollocks to think he'd have made any difference now when he's nowhere near the player he was.

 

 

Don't think he'd have made much difference because we were outplayed across the field. But we lacked any composure in midfield which was actually my point.

 

It maybe your point but it's not what you wrote.

 

Yes it is, you've even highlighted it in bold. We needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance.

 

Pirlo was the difference in that respect but I'm not saying Lampard would have filled that gap. It was merely another injury loss England didn't need in a tough game and Hodgson made best of what he had available. We rode our luck a bit and fought hard but we just didn't have the quality espescially in midfield.

 

Which you said was Lampard ffs. "We missed his presence"...He "ticks the boxes"

 

 

 

Hang on what's your point exactly?

 

I don't think Lampard's the player he was, nor do I think he'd have made much of a difference in this match in all honesty. But I do think we missed him, we were desperate for a cool head in possession, someone with the technique to control a ball in tight space, take shots from distance and spray the ball out wide and for all his flaws, Lampard does that well. We could have done with Barry ahead of Henderson as well.

 

My point was obvious, and has been repeated twice now. I can't be arsed repeating it again.

[ponsaelius]

FWIW, talking about penalties

 

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/9238/63227270.jpg

 

 

 

[jdckelly]

Thing Hodgson and England made the most of an extremely messy buildup to the tournament. Whatever people say about Lampard, and a lot of bollocks has been said down the years by tabloid journos, he's a massive danger in the right areas, he can play people in and his presence was missed. Gerrard did his best but we needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance and Lampard ticks those boxes. Parker is a pretty limited player but he does what he's told and gives his all. It typified England's performance here and throughout the tournament - disciplined but lacking skill or flair.

 

Hodgson will come out of it with credit and he deserves to. Looking at the England squad we had to play the way we did, we're in a period of transition with a weaker generation of players than the previous one and injuries throughout the team. We were a penalty shootout away from the semis.

 

I think the Germans have been overhyped this time around and struggled against Portugal but they will have a major advantage with 2 days' extra rest, not to mention the extra time the Italians played. Credit to Italy, the better team went through. At least England leave with their heads held high and have something to build upon for 2014. By then, new players will come through and we should be able to attack it with a stronger squad.

 

We've had just the same type of displays at previous tournaments when Lampard was in the side playing at his supposed peak. It's complete bollocks to think he'd have made any difference now when he's nowhere near the player he was.

 

 

Don't think he'd have made much difference because we were outplayed across the field. But we lacked any composure in midfield which was actually my point.

 

It maybe your point but it's not what you wrote.

 

Yes it is, you've even highlighted it in bold. We needed someone else in midfield, a cool head capable of a defence splitting pass, switching the play quickly or striking from distance.

 

Pirlo was the difference in that respect but I'm not saying Lampard would have filled that gap. It was merely another injury loss England didn't need in a tough game and Hodgson made best of what he had available. We rode our luck a bit and fought hard but we just didn't have the quality espescially in midfield.

 

Which you said was Lampard ffs. "We missed his presence"...He "ticks the boxes"

tbf he'd have been a better option off the bench than Henderson

[Tiresias]

@SamWallaceIndy: Joe Hart completed more passes (45) than any other England player tonight. Depressing

 

says it all really

[wormy]

Joe Hart of all players worthy of a mention?

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

look at the one against Reading.  He's not even looking at the ball.  The Ashley's can only fucking dream.

[Mick]

we are going to sound like a pair of old farts here like but when they do play it's 'organised', club games, club training. you rarely see a large, get some mates together type game on a field now, not that this on its own would right things but it seems the desire to play is being lost.

 

I had a couple of mates who went on to become professional footballers, both learned to play on a field with a disorganised kick-about, it's as if we coach the game out of players now, rather than into them.

[chicago_shearer]

Having the most enjoyable, profitable and televised league in the world but wondering if it would be terribly impolite to ask the foreign club owners to do more to encourage youth development in the country they profit from. Very English.