ponsaelius Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hart Richards Smalling Cahill Cole Wilshere Chamberlain Walcott Rooney Sturridge Welbeck Something like that starting the next qualifying campaign. Would that lot qualify? I'm not even convinced, but we may as well give it a go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I am unconvinced by Smalling and Jones the latter has some attacking potential and could make a good full back or maybe a midfielder, not at all sure about being a centre back which is what he seems destined to be but he has yet to settle into a position for long I suppose. As for Smalling seems average, but could improve. Richards imo is very unfairly ignored for england, Baines should replace Cole who will be past it by next world cup imo. For midfield Wilshere is needed badly to be able to retain the ball, however he may be a crock. Cleverly and co are exciting prospects but only prospects still, hopefully will be able to establish themselves at international level. More worried about Hogson sticking to 4-4-2 eternally, it may work if we were very good at counter attacking but our wingers aren't up to it atm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I honestly think as far as i've seen we only have Wilshere in CM department who is looking like he could step up with ease on to the international stage and play in any side. And this might sound stupid and silly but Jordon Henderson is the next best but that is how far behind the others are because there is a massive gulf in class between the two named. Henderson, Rodwell, Cleverly, Barkley, McEachran they are all decent footballers who have a while to improve but none of them stand out from one another imo. We should be looking to play Chamberlain in the middle. He will be wasted as a wide player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hart Richards Smalling Cahill Cole Wilshere Chamberlain Walcott Rooney Sturridge Welbeck Something like that starting the next qualifying campaign. Would that lot qualify? I'm not even convinced, but we may as well give it a go. Has Frimpong declared to play for England btw? Totally raw around the edges but looks to have some potential in the holding role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Think he'll always be a bit of a headless chicken Tooj. He'll do well as a Prem player I think but not convinced by him. Think he has declared for Ghana btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Chaimberlain should be played centrally, but still not yet convinced, he was hardly used extensively by Wenger last season. Most important is finding a midfield combination with some understanding, a Chamberlain - Wilshere - Cleverly midfield 3 (Rodwell maybe) could well do us good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not at all sure what to make of Jones either. Where the hell is he gonna end up spending his career? He hasn't looked great in any position yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Lads, thanks for keeping a good discussion up of the youth & future, excellent insight and opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Josh McEachran is supposed to be really promising as well isn't he? I don't think he will ever come to fruition. The boy is a decent passer and an alright touch, but he is lacking in physicality and attacking drive. He reminds me of Guthrie, with the skill set of a deep-lying playmaker, but completely lacking in the engine and strength necessary to play there in Engand. Yep, Guthrie is a very good comparison. Though I've seen Mceachran less than Guthrie, I don't know about that as a comparison. Mceachran's left foot is superb and his overall game is surely far more impressive than Guthrie's was at that age. He is also an excellent dribbler (far better than Guthrie). I think he has all the attributes to make it at the top level and expect him to. He's also a lot more mobile/will be a lot more mobile than Guthrie. His main problem is that he's stuck at Chelsea and they are sure to make loads of changes this summer. Our midfield is starting to fill out a lot but I'd love to see him here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Agree with you, he's not much like Guthrie at all. For me he's like Wilshere but with more dribbling skills. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not at all sure what to make of Jones either. Where the hell is he gonna end up spending his career? He hasn't looked great in any position yet. Sure he'll be a CB eventually, he'll never make it anywhere else. He just needs to be careful Fergie doesn't do a Alan Smith on him and ruin his career by messing him about in different positions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macphisto Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I know you're in Germany Parky so I understand why you know a lot about German football but I think the points about Germany having to rebuild are being overstretched. Not even taking into account their record pre-1990 they won the world cup in 1990, Euros in 1996, final of the world cup in 2002 and 3rd place in the last two world cups and were runners up at the last Euros. So basically they had two poor Euros (in between which they got to the world cup final) and we beat them 5-1 in Munich. I think it's more to do with them experiencing cyclical bad period more than them having to rebuild, indeed their record is so good what did they need to rebuild? I'm not saying that they haven't changed their youth system etc, but I think that is German forward thinking for you. There's no comparison between Germany in the past to what England are like now. I would say better examples are France after they didn't make the World Cup in 1990 and 1994 and rebuilt resulting in the team that won the world cup and Spain who have always under achieved apart from recent times. For me I would simply replicate whatever training, youth system they have in Holland as they sure do produce world class players for such a small country. I know it doesn't always work like this but if they had a population comparable to ours then I think they would win everything in sight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I can see Jones being a defensive midfielder, didn't impress me as a CB this season, and few teams really tested him, the ones that did, inc us, got results. In midfield at least isn't last line of defence and can go on more rampaging runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The only time I've seen McEachran play was our 4-3 victory at Stamford Bridge when he came on and he looked a well rounded and exciting player even then. Must be getting on for 2 years ago now. Needs regular football even if that means dropping down to the Championship for a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Loaned out to swansea wasn't he? Loaning to same division is annoying and shouldn't happen, did well for Sturridge (though this last season wasn't) but didn't think he got much game time even at swansea, would have been better going down a division. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Dan Gosling has got the potential mark against his name.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I know you're in Germany Parky so I understand why you know a lot about German football but I think the points about Germany having to rebuild are being overstretched. Not even taking into account their record pre-1990 they won the world cup in 1990, Euros in 1996, final of the world cup in 2002 and 3rd place in the last two world cups and were runners up at the last Euros. So basically they had two poor Euros (in between which they got to the world cup final) and we beat them 5-1 in Munich. I think it's more to do with them experiencing cyclical bad period more than them having to rebuild, indeed their record is so good what did they need to rebuild? I'm not saying that they haven't changed their youth system etc, but I think that is German forward thinking for you. There's no comparison between Germany in the past to what England are like now. I would say better examples are France after they didn't make the World Cup in 1990 and 1994 and rebuilt resulting in the team that won the world cup and Spain who have always under achieved apart from recent times. For me I would simply replicate whatever training, youth system they have in Holland as they sure do produce world class players for such a small country. I know it doesn't always work like this but if they had a population comparable to ours then I think they would win everything in sight. It wasn't a quite a crisis as you say but it was approaching one and they acted quickly. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/04/germany-youth-development-england Most significant change, said Seifert, was insisting that in these new academies at least 12 players in each intake have to be eligible to play for Germany. "That was the key difference," he said. "Fifa's 6+5 rule means only that players must have grown up in the club. For example, Cesc Fabregas was developed at Arsenal, but is Spanish. In Germany, our academies must have 12 in each group able to play for Germany." Since that restructuring, the proportion of Germany-qualified players in the Bundesliga has changed significantly. "In 2003-4 we had 44% from foreign countries," Seifert said. "Right now it is only 38%. So 62% are able to play for the national team." In England it is the other way around, with an approximate 60/40 split of foreigners and nationals. Also here: Below the radar. . .something strange and disconcerting was happening: Germany was running out of decent players. The influx from GDR-trained professionals that was supposed to make “Germany unbeatable for years to come” (according to Franz Beckenbauer after winning the World Cup in 1990) had dried up along with the funding for the specialized sports schools where they had been drilled from a very young age. In the Bundesliga, newly rich clubs awash with TV money had gone on a spending spree, doubling the number of foreigners from 17 percent (1992) to 34 percent (1997) in five years. Desperate for strikers in particular, national manager Vogts ensured that South-African born Sean Dundee, a Karlsruher FC player without any German background, was fast-tracked for German citizenship. Dundee received his passport in January 1997 but never played for Germany after picking up an injury before his first scheduled game, a friendly against Israel, and losing his form soon after. Vogts’ successor, Erich Ribbeck, equally desperate, approached another Bundesliga import, Brazilian forward Paulo Rink (Leverkusen). Rink, it turned out, had German grandparents and was quickly introduced to the national team. He picked up 13 caps from 1998 to 2000. The cases of Rink and Dundee, both unprecedented in German football since the war, demonstrated that something was very wrong. The disappointing quarterfinal exit against Croatia at the 1998 World Cup then made it plain to see: not enough talent was coming through. In the Bundesliga, the percentage of foreigners had risen again, to 50 percent by the time the season kicked off in 2000. At this point, Honigstein explains, a new structure in Germany’s youth development system was implemented, with 121 national talent centers built for 10-17 year-olds, emphasising technical skills, with full-time coaches at a cost of $15.6 million over five years. Meanwhile, all professional clubs in Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2 were required to build youth academies by the German Football Association. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 At this point, Honigstein explains, a new structure in Germany’s youth development system was implemented, with 121 national talent centers built for 10-17 year-olds, emphasising technical skills, with full-time coaches at a cost of $15.6 million over five years. Meanwhile, all professional clubs in Bundesliga and Bundesliga 2 were required to build youth academies by the German Football Association.[/i] £15.6 million. With all the money in the game you can't tell me our FA couldn't do something similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Most of the players being talked about as potential England players don't and won't get picked regularly enough by their clubs, generally a sign that they are not that highly rated by their managers who see them in training every day. Milner, A. Johnson, Richards don't start in the games that matter for City, neither do Smalling, Jones, Wellbeck or Cleverly for Utd. If you look at the other good squads in the Euro's, Portugal, Spain, Germany, Italy, its a completely different picture. The gulf in ability and technique is as huge as ever between us and the good teams, the only difference is that now we really seem to have finally realised it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think Caulker might be one to pencil in for the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I think forcing English teams to have a quota of English players will benefit us to an extent by creating a larger pool of players with experience at the top level. It also forces English teams to make more efforts to either improve their academies or sign more players from the lower leagues and blood them in the Prem. But I think many people are exaggerating the benefits of this alone. Spain have only turned great in the last 4 or 5 years. Before that they were consistent underperformers despite having a top league full of Spanish players. Could it be that they simply have a good generation of players this time around who happen to all play for the same club for 9 months of the year? I support the attempts to try and blood more English players in the Prem from a younger age but I think we have a poorer generation of players. It's a cyclical thing. In recent history we have got to quarters and semis enough times to say we've not been a failure but we just weren't quite good enough to beat the top teams. I don't think it can all be traced to grassroots coaching or the number of foreigners in the Prem. I think a lot of factors have limited us in tournaments; we haven't always been a fully united camp, our managers have been victims of the media more than in other countries and the weight of history has weighed us down at times I feel. There seems a desire to try and change grassroots coaching and the Prem rules so I hope this will bear fruit but the other factors that have held us back will probably continue to be there. It's probably for the best that we didn't play a fully fresh German team after a gruelling 120 minutes against Italy. As it is we leave the tournament with some dignity, unbeaten in normal time including games against France and Italy and a respectable if unspectacular last 8 finish. It's something to build upon for 2014 by which time new blood will come through and we'll hopefully have a stronger squad. I think Hodgson is a good choice to take us there and I hope we are a united front going into that tournament without the media out to get him before a ball is kicked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/25/euro-2012-statistics-damn-england?CMP=twt_gu 30 Cristiano Ronaldo has had more shots in his first four games at Euro 2012 than the entire England squad (29) had at the tournament 20 Italy had more shots on target in their quarter-final match than England had in total in their four matches in Ukraine 88 England conceded more than twice as many shots to France, Sweden, Ukraine and Italy than they had against those teams 39 England had on average 39% of the possession in their four games, their lowest figure at a tournament since Euro 1980 29 Ashley Young and James Milner put in 29 crosses in the four games. Only three reached an England team-mate 300 England averaged 300 passes per match. The four semi-finalists have averaged 479 15 England completed only 15 passes in the 15 minutes of the second period of extra-time against Italy 18 England's most successful passing combination against Italy was the goalkeeper Joe Hart to the substitute striker Andy Carroll 115 Andrea Pirlo had more passes against England than England's four starting midfielders had against Italy 18 Mesut Ozil has created 18 chances in Germany's four games. Steven Gerrard, England's most prolific chance creator, has made six 102 England ran on average 102km in their four matches. Italy ran 7.5km further on average per match 86 England have had the most tackles in the tournament, with Steven Gerrard's 18 the most of any player 29 England have blocked the most shots at Euro 2012, 17 more than Italy, 19 more than Germany, 21 more than Portugal and 24 more than Spain Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Yeah, we're canny shite like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Yeah, we're canny s**** like Absolutly heroic blocking though. Bodies on the line for the country. That's passion and commitment. Take a bow lads, take a bow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Have the papers slated Rooney and co today? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts