The England Thread

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

England's Carroll service off-key after all the noise about selection

 

 

Instead of tuning in to watch Shaun Ryder eat a crocodile's unmentionable parts, the nation was last night invited to witness Andy Carroll chew up a couple of raw French defenders. Only it didn't quite work out that way.

 

The revamped TV schedule meant that I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here was given the night off, so ITV could broadcast England's friendly with France, and it was Carroll who was meant to take centre stage.

 

However, the service was so poor to the Newcastle No 9 that he was unable to make his aerial dominance of his marker Adil Rami count.

 

The French were clearly wary of the size and physical intimidation of the big Geordie. For once, Carroll's reputation did him a favour. He earned a free-kick without touching the ball in the first minute of the game, as Rami, who is called Shrek by the supporters of his club Lille, attempted to impose himself.

 

The selection of Carroll had been a fraught one from start to finish for Fabio Capello and his employers at the Football Association. The Italian seemed to take an amoral stance towards the rights and wrongs of selecting someone who is currently on bail with a court case pending in January, in which he is accused of assaulting his former girlfriend.

 

Given that some of England's better strikers, such as Wayne Rooney, Jermain Defoe and Darren Bent, were ruled out with injury and that Carroll had scored seven Premier League goals this season, expediency was clearly the order of the day.

 

Capello stuck his neck out on Tuesday in saying Carroll would play if he had recovered from a groin injury, but then was put in an awkward position when Newcastle appealed to the FA for the 21-year-old to be left out on medical grounds. After all the fuss and bother, Capello was hardly going to omit Carroll for the footballing equivalent of a note from your mum.

 

Sadly for Carroll, his chances to shine were few and far between on a night when England's makeshift side were thoroughly outclassed.

 

The idea that Carroll might thrive on a succession of crosses from the flanks, delivered by the wingers James Milner and Theo Walcott, never materialised.

 

Instead, all too predictably, the England defence clipped a succession of hopeful long balls forward, for the powerfully built striker to try and win. He did his best, and battled away, but it was depressing to watch as, in contrast, the French passed the ball around with style and precision.

 

Carroll has scored several goals for Newcastle this season with far-post headers from diagonal free-kicks, but England did not seem to have noticed. It only worked once for Carroll, when he met a Kieran Gibbs free-kick and nodded down to Steven Gerrard, who shot over the bar.

 

Other than that, Carroll's attempts on goal were restricted to a snap shot in the first half, which was easily saved by France goalkeeper Hugo Lloris, and a header from 18 yards in the 70th minute, from Gerrard's cross, which was too close to Lloris again.

 

It proved to be Carroll's last action of note, as Capello withdrew him two minutes later. He was replaced by another debutant, Cardiff City's Jay Bothroyd.

 

Carroll was given a generous ovation by the full house at Wembley, partly in recognition of the hard work he had put in, and partly perhaps in sympathy for the almost total lack of service he had received.

 

Having passed his first test under the Wembley lights, Carroll is clearly worth another chance in an England shirt, as long as he passes his second test, that is, in sorting out the chaos of his private life.

 

That will probably prove harder for Carroll who showed enough last night, in a weak England team, to suggest he could become the striker that Capello would so love to have at his disposal. And perhaps give England a bit of bite in the process.

 

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/international/englands-carroll-service-offkey-after-all-the-noise-about-selection-2137167.html

[Nobody]

Can anyone tell me what the f*** is wrong with a standard 4-4-2 formation?

It seems fashionable these days to play 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 or 4-1-1-1-2-f***ing 1. 4-4-2 is has been the cornerstone of world football for decades and it still works now, so why do managers insist on f***ing around with diamonds and christmas trees? 

 

 

................................Foster

 

Richards.....Willo.....Terry......Cole

 

 

Barton.......Gerrard.......Nolan.......Johnson

 

..................Nolan.........Carroll

 

 

Perfect! Now stop f***ing about

 

 

Capello got absolutely hammered during the World Cup for playing 4-4-2.

Fixed

Nolan twice?

[Ronaldo]

The problem is English teams have historically always played 4-4-2. English players are therefore geared up to play 4-4-2 - one-footed wingers, defensive midfielders, attacking midfielders, big physical strikers etc.

 

The influx of continental managers and players who are schooled in a different style of football has influenced how our national team play. We should just play to our strengths with a team of players who are best suited to a formation they have grown up playing.

 

We can't outplay the likes of France, Brazil, Germany, Spain but we'll give them a decent game if we play the traditional English style of football - pacy wingers beating the full-back and crossing the ball to big, powerful strikers.For me, last night highlighted exactly why we need an English manager in charge of the national team. As much as I hate Harry Redknapp, i'd love to see him manage England - he'd have us playing decent football with a proper English mentality and i'm confident that we'd be a lot more successful under him than we ever will be under Capello

 

Stopped reading after this, we don't have the personnel for such rubbish. 4-3-3 is the only way for England to go.

[steve_69]

The problem is English teams have historically always played 4-4-2. English players are therefore geared up to play 4-4-2 - one-footed wingers, defensive midfielders, attacking midfielders, big physical strikers etc.

 

The influx of continental managers and players who are schooled in a different style of football has influenced how our national team play. We should just play to our strengths with a team of players who are best suited to a formation they have grown up playing.

 

We can't outplay the likes of France, Brazil, Germany, Spain but we'll give them a decent game if we play the traditional English style of football - pacy wingers beating the full-back and crossing the ball to big, powerful strikers.For me, last night highlighted exactly why we need an English manager in charge of the national team. As much as I hate Harry Redknapp, i'd love to see him manage England - he'd have us playing decent football with a proper English mentality and i'm confident that we'd be a lot more successful under him than we ever will be under Capello

 

Stopped reading after this, we don't have the personnel for such rubbish. 4-3-3 is the only way for England to go.

 

Carroll - biggest aerial threat and best header of the ball in the league (also a big f***er)

Rooney - 27 goals last season, many of them with his head and supplied by Antonio Valencia (a proper winger)

Crouch - 6,7

Bent - very good in the air

Kevin Davies - nuff said

 

Jonhson - winger

Lennon - winger

SWP - winger

Downing - winger (and one of the best crossers of the ball in the league)

 

To suggest we don't have the personnel for it is ridiculous. We have exactly the right personnel for it.

 

[Colocho]

 

Stopped reading after this, we don't have the personnel for such rubbish. 4-3-3 is the only way for England to go.

 

Still think we have the players to play a 4-2-3-1 a la Holland and Mourinho's Inter Milan.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

SWP - winger

 

 

uh-oh, what's that i hear?

[oldtype]

The problem is English teams have historically always played 4-4-2. English players are therefore geared up to play 4-4-2 - one-footed wingers, defensive midfielders, attacking midfielders, big physical strikers etc.

 

The influx of continental managers and players who are schooled in a different style of football has influenced how our national team play. We should just play to our strengths with a team of players who are best suited to a formation they have grown up playing.

 

We can't outplay the likes of France, Brazil, Germany, Spain but we'll give them a decent game if we play the traditional English style of football - pacy wingers beating the full-back and crossing the ball to big, powerful strikers.For me, last night highlighted exactly why we need an English manager in charge of the national team. As much as I hate Harry Redknapp, i'd love to see him manage England - he'd have us playing decent football with a proper English mentality and i'm confident that we'd be a lot more successful under him than we ever will be under Capello

 

Stopped reading after this, we don't have the personnel for such rubbish. 4-3-3 is the only way for England to go.

 

Carroll - biggest aerial threat and best header of the ball in the league (also a big f***er)

Rooney - 27 goals last season, many of them with his head and supplied by Antonio Valencia (a proper winger)

Crouch - 6,7

Bent - very good in the air

Kevin Davies - nuff said

 

Jonhson - winger

Lennon - winger

SWP - winger

Downing - winger (and one of the best crossers of the ball in the league)

 

To suggest we don't have the personnel for it is ridiculous. We have exactly the right personnel for it.

 

 

Arguably, that's the only formation you do have the personnel for.

[JH]

In the first XI, it shouldn't be anything other than Johnson and Young on the wings, possibly Downing. Walcott and Milner were absolutely terrible 'wingers' yesterday, mainly because they aren't wingers.

[biggs]

anyone else think a fully fit (physicaaly and menatlly) rooney alongside carroll would really hit it off ?

Speel checker Madras  tbh one man up front was a disaster with the wide men not doing a good job and a fit Rooney is still fucked in the head atm

[Colocho]

Carroll - biggest aerial threat and best header of the ball in the league (also a big f***er)

Rooney - 27 goals last season, many of them with his head and supplied by Antonio Valencia (a proper winger)

Crouch - 6,7

Bent - very good in the air

Kevin Davies - nuff said

 

Jonhson - winger

Lennon - winger

SWP - winger

Downing - winger (and one of the best crossers of the ball in the league)

 

To suggest we don't have the personnel for it is ridiculous. We have exactly the right personnel for it.

 

 

I think I can see the point you are trying to make but I think it's too early to hail Carroll as the best header of the ball in the league. Can't think of occasions were Bent has shown aerial dominance either ...

 

Just because Carroll is tall and strong, it doesn't mean we simply have to lump it forward to him. The same goes for Davies and Crouch, both as good, technical players with the ball at their feet.

[biggs]

Not gonna be too critical as the yung uns need to be brought in and loose the fear factor that we have imho,massive changes in the way we play our game tactics,formations and manager need to be looked at and probably will get shot down for this but its got to be Rednapp

[AyeDubbleYoo]

In the first XI, it shouldn't be anything other than Johnson and Young on the wings, possibly Downing. Walcott and Milner were absolutely terrible 'wingers' yesterday, mainly because they aren't wingers.

 

Exactly, our problem is mainly picking the wrong players in the wrong positions.

 

Even Arsene Wenger is just waiting until Theo is ready to play through the middle, it's stupid for England to be acting as his training ground as well.

 

We have enough good players to do much better than we are.

[Ronaldo]

The problem is English teams have historically always played 4-4-2. English players are therefore geared up to play 4-4-2 - one-footed wingers, defensive midfielders, attacking midfielders, big physical strikers etc.

 

The influx of continental managers and players who are schooled in a different style of football has influenced how our national team play. We should just play to our strengths with a team of players who are best suited to a formation they have grown up playing.

 

We can't outplay the likes of France, Brazil, Germany, Spain but we'll give them a decent game if we play the traditional English style of football - pacy wingers beating the full-back and crossing the ball to big, powerful strikers.For me, last night highlighted exactly why we need an English manager in charge of the national team. As much as I hate Harry Redknapp, i'd love to see him manage England - he'd have us playing decent football with a proper English mentality and i'm confident that we'd be a lot more successful under him than we ever will be under Capello

 

Stopped reading after this, we don't have the personnel for such rubbish. 4-3-3 is the only way for England to go.

 

Carroll - biggest aerial threat and best header of the ball in the league (also a big f***er)

Rooney - 27 goals last season, many of them with his head and supplied by Antonio Valencia (a proper winger)

Crouch - 6,7

Bent - very good in the air

Kevin Davies - nuff said

 

Jonhson - winger

Lennon - winger

SWP - winger

Downing - winger (and one of the best crossers of the ball in the league)

 

To suggest we don't have the personnel for it is ridiculous. We have exactly the right personnel for it.

 

 

Ok, i'll do it player-by-player.

 

Rooney - our best player, had his best season by far in a 4-3-3/4-5-1.

Crouch - fair enough, but not good enough to start.

Carroll - fair enough.

Bent - not good enough to start.

Davies - not good enough to be in the squad. Best alone up top.

 

Johnson - plays in a 4-3-3.

Lennon - can't cross.

SWP - you're a fucking idiot.

Downing - not good enough to start, despite recent form.

 

The personnel is there for 4-3-3. This notion of wingers using pace and crossing ability to get crosses into big men relies on having old-fashioned wingers like Keith Gillespie. The likes of Lennon and SWP are far, far from that. And the fact you've used those players as reasons to use a certain formation is ridiculous in itself.

[Colocho]

So who would you play in a 4-3-3?

[Ronaldo]

Walcott and Johnson/Young either side of Rooney needs to be tried. As does Walcott and Rooney either side of Carroll.

[Tooj]

Walcott and Johnson/Young either side of Rooney needs to be tried. As does Walcott and Rooney either side of Carroll.

 

[Colocho]

... and the three in midfield?

[steve_69]

Carroll - biggest aerial threat and best header of the ball in the league (also a big f***er)

Rooney - 27 goals last season, many of them with his head and supplied by Antonio Valencia (a proper winger)

Crouch - 6,7

Bent - very good in the air

Kevin Davies - nuff said

 

Jonhson - winger

Lennon - winger

SWP - winger

Downing - winger (and one of the best crossers of the ball in the league)

 

To suggest we don't have the personnel for it is ridiculous. We have exactly the right personnel for it.

 

 

I think I can see the point you are trying to make but I think it's too early to hail Carroll as the best header of the ball in the league. Can't think of occasions were Bent has shown aerial dominance either ...

 

Just because Carroll is tall and strong, it doesn't mean we simply have to lump it forward to him. The same goes for Davies and Crouch, both as good, technical players with the ball at their feet.

 

I'm not talking about lumping it forward to him at all. I'm talking about playing to our strengths.

Service from out wide to two dominant strikers is not the same as just lumping balls forward.  We do not have the players capable of playing like France or Spain. Neither do our players have the coaching to play an Italian style game.

 

They have been coached from grassroots playing 4-4-2 with two pacy wide men. We have an abundance of players who could play this way very effectively, complimented by some excellent goalscoring central midfielders. However, Sven, McLaren and now Capello have sought to horse-shoe our players into formations that they are neither suited to or used to, and look at the results.

 

It would be fantastic to see England playing an up-tempo passing game like France, Spain or Brazil but who are we trying to kid? If this is going to happen the players need to be coached that way from an early age. The current crop of players have been coached to play the english style of football, so lets get the best out of them by sticking them in a formation they are acustomed to and asking them to play the way they know best.

 

Tottenham finished 4th in the league last year playing attacking english style football in a 4-4-2 formation - two pacy wide men, two strikers, one sitting midfielder and one creative midfielder.

 

 

 

 

[JH]

Walcott and Johnson/Young either side of Rooney needs to be tried. As does Walcott and Rooney either side of Carroll.

 

My fear is it'd eventually drift into a 4-5-1 and we'd be left with the same problem (no support for the front man, and non-wingers on the wing)

[Ginola]

Walcott and Johnson/Young either side of Rooney needs to be tried. As does Walcott and Rooney either side of Carroll.

You already said Rooney is Englands best player and had his best season playing as a lone striker in a 4-5-1/4-3-3, so wouldn't it be a waste for him to be put out wide in a front 3?

 

Can't argue with Walcott & Johnson/Young out wide though.

[steve_69]

Walcott and Johnson/Young either side of Rooney needs to be tried. As does Walcott and Rooney either side of Carroll.

 

And the midfield?

 

[JH]

Walcott and Johnson/Young either side of Rooney needs to be tried. As does Walcott and Rooney either side of Carroll.

 

And the midfield?

 

 

Easy. Smith, Nolan Barton. Barry on the bench.

[Ronaldo]

Walcott and Johnson/Young either side of Rooney needs to be tried. As does Walcott and Rooney either side of Carroll.

You already said Rooney is Englands best player and had his best season playing as a lone striker in a 4-5-1/4-3-3, so wouldn't it be a waste for him to be put out wide in a front 3?

 

Can't argue with Walcott & Johnson/Young out wide though.

 

It needs to be tried.

 

What we do know, is that he can be very ineffective in a 4-4-2. When he played in a 2 with Van Nistelrooj he was effective, but only because he primarily worked the channels. He could do that in a 4-3-3.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Interesting point about Rooney. People seem to think he is 'wasted' when he's working across the pitch and back into midfield, but maybe that is actually what his game should be about.

[steve_69]

Walcott and Johnson/Young either side of Rooney needs to be tried. As does Walcott and Rooney either side of Carroll.

You already said Rooney is Englands best player and had his best season playing as a lone striker in a 4-5-1/4-3-3, so wouldn't it be a waste for him to be put out wide in a front 3?

 

Can't argue with Walcott & Johnson/Young out wide though.

 

It needs to be tried.

 

What we do know, is that he can be very ineffective in a 4-4-2. When he played in a 2 with Van Nistelrooj he was effective, but only because he primarily worked the channels. He could do that in a 4-3-3.

 

Fair enough but who would you play as the middle 3?