The England Thread

[Rob W]

god help us.......

[Guest Howaythetoon]

if this is in direct response to what had gone immediately before I'd like to know where anyone, including me, has said anything different to what you've highlighted in bold?

 

No, its to do with the general fan malaise when it comes to our own players, especially the younger players. A huge portion of England fans are so down on our own players its unreal and becoming quite embarrassing now. Ironically these fans are usually the quickest to shout loudest when we fail to win a world cup or when one of our players doesn't play well.

 

It does my head in and it is part of the overall problem within our game and it needs to stop. I'll tell you what else needs to stop as well, we need to stop trying to compete and compare ourselves with other nations, other teams, setups and indeed with our players too.

 

How about not trying to play like Spain or Germany and how about playing to our own strengths and playing our own game because all we are doing is embarrassing ourselves and getting further and further away from ever doing anything at international level.

 

I quite like the current and emerging crop of younger players coming through, your Wellbecks, Townsends, Smallings, Sturridges et al. They are not and never will be world-beaters, but they are good players with good attributes and we need to stop comparing them with other players, or rather stop trying to use other players to bash our own simply because they are not like or as good as other players.

 

Lampard... well he's no Pirlo is he?

 

Wilshire? Who does he think he is, Xavi

 

 

 

Even Bale... who f***ing Stevie Wonder can tell you is a top top player, one of the very best, gets downplayed by English fans. Presuambly because he's not as good as Messi or Ronaldo... It is madness.

 

Back to England...

 

If international football was a league table, we would be mid-table. And we need to accept this now and get over any hangups we have regarding technique etc.

 

That's not our game and never will be, not for the next hundred years or so anyway because its too ingrained in our culture. Dads up and down the country when their kids take to the pitch want their kids to get stuck in, fight for the ball, run their socks off etc. On the stands fans demand the same from their own team and players.

 

Me, rather than try and be like Germany or Spain how about we just focus on what we are good at, what we can play like and develop our game from there.

 

We need to start playing a typical Premier League game. Fast, direct, frenzied and end to end. Let Townsend run with the ball, cut inside and shoot. Let him pin back the full-back. Why not, that's what he is good and at what he does. He isn't going to play cute little one twos in little triangles or thread through amazing balls. So why ask him to. The same applies to all our players. What is Sturridge good at? What is Rooney good at? Get them playing their own game and at the kind of tempo and directness of our league.

[Jayson]

IMO Townsend is a decent player but he needs to add variation to his game. I personally think hell get figured out pretty quickly, whether he has it in his locker to vary his game, perhaps cut down on his long range shooting he can be very useful

 

Disagree with the last bit. No-one was getting any shots away at all the other night. Absolutely riddled with fannying about. He just rocked up, shot and hit the post. Need more of it imo.

 

Maybe, but he looks to shoot far too often from long range imo. His hit ratio is low.

 

Hes either hit the woodwork or scored from long range in each of his last 3 starts for England?

[alexf]

Just a small comment about HTT's post. I'd say the vast majority, especially the media, overrated Bale rather than a handful of people on forums underrating him surely?

[Disco]

 

We need to start playing a typical Premier League game. Fast, direct, frenzied and end to end. Let Townsend run with the ball, cut inside and shoot. Let him pin back the full-back. Why not, that's what he is good and at what he does. He isn't going to play cute little one twos in little triangles or thread through amazing balls. So why ask him to. The same applies to all our players. What is Sturridge good at? What is Rooney good at? Get them playing their own game and at the kind of tempo and directness of our league.

 

I've said this for a while.

[The College Dropout]

Just a small comment about HTT's post. I'd say the vast majority, especially the media, overrated Bale rather than a handful of people on forums underrating him surely?

 

I don't even think the media really over-rated him. In the PL he, RVP & Suarez where the standout players. All 3 based on last season are in that bracket just below the top two.

 

Up until around Christmas I was saying Mata was better than Bale but around January-Feb Bale went full beast-mode. Some of the best play i've ever seen in the PL. Scoring winners damn near every week.

 

The only people that have over-rated him are Real Madrid.

[Ronaldo]

We need to start playing a typical Premier League game. Fast, direct, frenzied and end to end. Let Townsend run with the ball, cut inside and shoot. Let him pin back the full-back. Why not, that's what he is good and at what he does. He isn't going to play cute little one twos in little triangles or thread through amazing balls. So why ask him to. The same applies to all our players. What is Sturridge good at? What is Rooney good at? Get them playing their own game and at the kind of tempo and directness of our league.

 

Amen, bruv. This is exactly why Sven and Capello (especially) should never have been appointed.

[Ashley17]

Genuine question - if that's how you want England to play, did you want Harry in charge?

[Ronaldo]

Nobody wanted Harry in charge. The man's an utter disgrace.

[Cronky]

 

We need to start playing a typical Premier League game. Fast, direct, frenzied and end to end. Let Townsend run with the ball, cut inside and shoot. Let him pin back the full-back. Why not, that's what he is good and at what he does. He isn't going to play cute little one twos in little triangles or thread through amazing balls. So why ask him to. The same applies to all our players. What is Sturridge good at? What is Rooney good at? Get them playing their own game and at the kind of tempo and directness of our league.

 

I've said this for a while.

 

Probably ever since Hungary beat us 6-3 in 1953, this debate has been going back and forth. It seems clear to me that if we really want to be persistent challengers for the major tournaments, we need to develop a more technical style. And that is starting to happen, at long last.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

Do the players in your team play for clubs that play in a "typical Premier league" style? The league in general, but especially the top clubs, have become more similar to their continental brethren since 2000.

[KaKa]

The thing is though, that frenzied style doesn't really work internationally, when most teams do a much better job of keeping possession, and so the game just isn't as open like it is in the premier league, where possession changes sides quite regularly against most of the teams outside of the top 4.

 

Secondly, most international teams will just sit deep and challenge you to break them down with good passing and movement, which is what Chile did last week. And so it is difficult to try to get in behind them, or run at them etc.

 

This is the issue England faces I think.

 

 

[The College Dropout]

Do the players in your team play for clubs that play in a "typical Premier league" style? The league in general, but especially the top clubs, have become more similar to their continental brethren since 2000.

 

Not really. English teams have become "more technical" but the game at the highest level still tends to be considerably faster, direct and strong than on the continent. If you look at the Golden Era of British teams in the CL especially Benitez L'pool, Chelsea & Man Utd. the teams where very strong, very quick, great on the backfoot/counter, relatively direct. Of course there where great technically too but they took full advantage of the English style

[The College Dropout]

I don't think the English clubs are simply good enough.. technically or otherwise to pull off how Man Utd, Chelsea, Benitez L'pool played. Our versions of Mascherano, Drogba, Tevez, Ronaldo, Alonso even Ivanovic are steps behind.

[mrmojorisin75]

Secondly, most international teams will just sit deep and challenge you to break them down with good passing and movement, which is what Chile did last week. And so it is difficult to try to get in behind them, or run at them etc.

 

was inferring the same thing when discussing townsend, but got slated for it

[The College Dropout]

Secondly, most international teams will just sit deep and challenge you to break them down with good passing and movement, which is what Chile did last week. And so it is difficult to try to get in behind them, or run at them etc.

 

was inferring the same thing when discussing townsend, but got slated for it

 

Because you were talking tripe son.

[mrmojorisin75]

Son?   Bonkers how little some people know about football.

[KaKa]

I think England really need to have a think about how to produce better international quality players. It's too easy to say, they need to just do their own thing, and forget everyone else. The fact is that it's not going to lead to the results they want. The approach just doesn't work at that level.

 

It's not even a case of trying to play like Spain, Germany or Brazil either. It's just about improving the passing and ability to keep possession, to a decent standard, as the standard is currently way too low.

 

England really struggle to keep possession long enough, in order to work the opposition's defence and eventually create decent openings for their quality players, with the crucial pass or cross.

 

It definitely needs looking at. If Germany could transform their whole approach and setup to the level they did, England should be able to. Doing it to even half of the level Germany did would make a huge difference.

[Rob W]

the culture in the UK is, and always has been, non-stop running, get rid of the ball as fast as you can anywhere

 

Until we can stop that we ain't going anywhere internationally

[Guest icemanblue]

Are you a ghost?

[mrmojorisin75]

It's not even a case of trying to play like Spain, Germany or Brazil either. It's just about improving the passing and ability to keep possession, to a decent standard, as the standard is currently way too low.

 

someone gets it then, great to see a person who doesn't think we should play to our strengths of kicking it and running fast as the way to a better future

[Incognito]

the culture in the UK is, and always has been, non-stop running, get rid of the ball as fast as you can anywhere

 

Until we can stop that we ain't going anywhere internationally

 

It was always seen as the strength of our game. Them English can't control a wet bag of cement but they run and harry all day.

 

I agree and nice to see you back too.

[The College Dropout]

the culture in the UK is, and always has been, non-stop running, get rid of the ball as fast as you can anywhere

 

Until we can stop that we ain't going anywhere internationally

Don't think it should be totally stopped. Culture is culture and it will change slowly. It's cold out here, running about loads keeps us warm. We also like to appear to be hard working, grafting, getting stuck in.

 

We need to highlight and focus on imposing our strengths. But we must also improve on our weaknesses.

 

Quick, fast paced football should be paramount to how the national side plays.

[Beren]

Rob W

[The College Dropout]

I don't necessarily believe we need to "control" possession. When Man Utd. went to the final those 3 times back to back they hardly played everyone off the pitch in the latter rounds.

 

If I could use a boxing example. We won't ever be the type to dominate the centre of the ring against top opposition, sending the most punches. However, we've all seen PBF control bouts on the backfoot striking with pace and accuracy as the opponent tries to press.

 

But we have to be "good enough" at whatever we do fundamentally to make it work. Ball control, movement, intelligence, technique. Whatever style we can try and approach. At the moment we just aren't good enough footballers.