The England Thread

[SEMTEX]

Don't think the choice of players makes a huge deal of difference right now tbh. I think whatever squad of players we have, we need someone who is capable of getting them to play on the big stage without shitting their pants at the slightest bit of pressure. The only time we looked capable was when we were losing. England will never win anything until there is a huge huge psychological change within the squad. I know the pressure put on them by the media/fanbase is great, but we're by no means alone on that, and plenty of countries get mediocre players to play well because they instill the mentality that these games are there to be cherished, and for you to take control of. We seem to go out thinking "whatever you do, don't fuck up", which quite obviously results in people fucking up.

 

Anyway, rage.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Been saying for months Gerrard-Henderson would leave the side vulnerableas a defensive unit, see Liverpool minus Lucas. As overrated as I think it is it might have been worth taking Jones to add a bit of insurance in the middle.

 

Gerrard and Henderson were fine.... the issue is who the 3rd guy is and whether he can link the play between them and the forwards enough.

 

In the Italy game we did that well, against Uruguay we didn't because Rooney played there and Rooney can never expected to be that guy and its not his fault.

 

If you're going to play Henderson and Gerrard its important the gap between them and Sturridge isn't too large.

[The Prophet]

Defensively, we've looked vulnerable in both games. The midfield have played a major part in that.

[Incognito]

Defensively, we've looked vulnerable in both games. The midfield have played a major part in that.

 

You can't blame the midfield for Jagielka ball watching on two occasions.

 

The fact is there are three out of the back 4 who aren't good enough.

[Tiresias]

Gerrard and Henderson contributed loads to Liverpools defensive frailty last season, but they were also the in form players for the position. Fair enough to pick them but Gerrard is through now.

[Guest n4e]

Defensively, we've looked vulnerable in both games. The midfield have played a major part in that.

 

You can't blame the midfield for Jagielka ball watching on two occasions.

 

The fact is there are three out of the back 4 who aren't good enough.

 

Theres no way we'd look that bad defensively with Terry and Cole playing.

[Sima]

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/cattermole-for-england.932620/

 

Catts for me, like.

[Yorkie]

Haven't seen a ball kicked of the world cup so far. Were we terrible?

[TaylorJ_01]

Haven't seen a ball kicked of the world cup so far. Were we terrible?

 

It's been mint overall.

[Trumpet]

It appears barring a miracle, this World Cup is over for England.

With the new generation of younger players, most talented of which are offensive/attacking players, England need a manager who can get the most out of them, as opposed to a safety first/cautious guy like Roy. Seeing England's Euro '16 qualifying group is piss easy as well, there is no reason to not start fresh and get that team ready for the qualifiers. Who'd be a proper manager though? Fair to say no Brit really fits that criteria, I'd argue a South American manager may be an interesting shout for England.

 

As for yesterday, I said before the WC too, that a midfield duo of Gerrard-Henderson doesn't work. It was the reason Liverpool was outran in second half of games in first half of the season before Rodgers changed the formation. Here is an average position comparison of England last night and Liverpool. The players ARE the same, but their roles are extremely different due to tactics.

 

http://i57.tinypic.com/3024e45.png

 

You see the gap between the CBs and 2 holding midfielders for England ?! Not to mention the fullbacks and the acres of space that is left behind there. England on paper should be a compact unit, but they have been anything but under Roy's tactics yesterday. So much have been made of "Liverpool formula"....the FORMULA, was to press relentlessly in the first 20 minutes and shock opposition and get an early lead. That was the crux of it. England have comparable staff and personnel, but so much more static, less compact, and without the press in comparison

 

Also notice the gap between Rooney and the other 2 central midfielders in the map.  That's what Mole is referring too. That's where Alvaro Rios was all the time yesterday picking up all the balls. That's exactly the hole that Cavani crawled back in many many times to help out Uruguay's midfield.

 

 

With England's current personnel, I really think a 4-4-2 diamond is the way to go. I love it because it gives so much stability and control over midfield. It solves the Rooney dilemma (if he remains) , and Sterling is A LOT better and more influential central than on the wing. It also fits young talents like Barkley well, as they can both play as tip of the diamond or as one of the midfielders. In the diamond, you also won't need a specialized DM. All around CMs that can do a bit of everything will fit the bill. It's the most logical thing and formation to pick for England, and that's why it probably won't happen.

[themanupstairs]

Here's one to ponder: if your players were born Germans and vice versa, would Germany be as good as a major tournament competitor, and England be as s***? I'm afraid so personally.

 

There's nothing inherently "wrong" with the English players on a phyiscal/technical level. The main issues preventing England from doing well are all mental, strategic and tactical. The role that the media plays is also unjustifiably huge. Team England should take a leaf out of MA and ban most if not all English media from the squad starting from 2 months before a major tournament.

 

"Team England" ugh.

 

I think it's cringeworthy as fuck as well. Used it tongue in cheek tbh.

[TRon]

All the England players who look fantastic for their clubs always look lost when they don't have any of their foreign team mates alongside them. Look at Sturridge and Sterling, they haven't had a bad tournament, but if they had Suarez to work with yesterday, it would have been a win for us. We just lack a bit of magic up front, and while Rooney's still a good player, he's not the force he was a few years ago.

[NG32]

We lack some world class players and a world class manager.

 

pretty simple really.

 

Edit:

 

As a country we still dont produce anywhere near enough good footballing players.  We rarely produce a quality play maker and its a once in a lifetime we have a Centreback that can start things off from the back.

 

Our country really needs to look at how kids are coached and what we produce as a nation. For a country that has the richest league in the world and football is a religion, we produce some seriously average players.

[Mole_Toonfan]

We lack some world class players and a world class manager.

 

pretty simple really.

 

Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest.

 

 

[NG32]

We lack some world class players and a world class manager.

 

pretty simple really.

 

Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

Ill get off my soap box then. 

 

 

Tbh my point still stands to a certain degree.

[triggs]

We lack some world class players and a world class manager.

 

pretty simple really.

 

Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest.

They also have one of the best midfielders in the world and Sanchez which kind of cancels it out

[NG32]

Spain also looked tried and not up for it at all.

[SEMTEX]

So all we need is 1 Sanchez and our defenders will perform way above their level? Class.

[TRon]

We lack some world class players and a world class manager.

 

pretty simple really.

 

Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest.

 

 

 

Even mediocre South American teams generally look more comfortable on the ball than the English. We are better in a lot of ways in that we don't fanny around passing the ball backwards and sideways, but I wonder if we might look better on the international stage if we picked a couple of flair players instead of sticking with the big name legends?

 

 

[TaylorJ_01]

We lack some world class players and a world class manager.

 

pretty simple really.

 

Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest.

 

 

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RU1CvT2EsIY/UCFI6yoYWDI/AAAAAAAAA08/vBRVoUZi1jo/s200/Chokeslam+through+the+table.gif

 

[triggs]

So all we need is 1 Sanchez and our defenders will perform way above their level? Class.

Well I think Vidal in midfield would be a big help to England at both sides of the field

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

I don't believe it a talent issue. Man for man, England is the best side in that group, imo.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

So all we need is 1 Sanchez and our defenders will perform way above their level? Class.

Well I think Vidal in midfield would be a big help to England at both sides of the field

Vidal might be the best CM in the entire world.

[Mike]

You just don't give a fuck, is all.

[chicago_shearer]

Don't think the choice of players makes a huge deal of difference right now tbh. I think whatever squad of players we have, we need someone who is capable of getting them to play on the big stage without shitting their pants at the slightest bit of pressure. The only time we looked capable was when we were losing. England will never win anything until there is a huge huge psychological change within the squad. I know the pressure put on them by the media/fanbase is great, but we're by no means alone on that, and plenty of countries get mediocre players to play well because they instill the mentality that these games are there to be cherished, and for you to take control of. We seem to go out thinking "whatever you do, don't f*** up", which quite obviously results in people f***ing up.

 

Anyway, rage.

 

Yep. In the last 4 World Cups, how many decent England performances with a positive result? Maybe 2? Or 1 (R16 v Denmark in Japan). There's a deeper problem. Other teams seem to approach these tournaments with joy, confidence and excitement. I've been watching the Spanish language coverage of the Mexican and Central American teams (lasses in football tops ) and the attitude to the tournament and their own chances is so different. And I think that mentality motivates otherwise average players to excel. They embrace the occasion. With the English, it's all fear. Nail biting about Suarez or Balotelli or Pirlo, building them up, moaning about penalties or some statistic about Rooney never scoring at a World Cup etc. Bringing a team psychiatrist to Brazil FFS. If Germany play Uruguay in the knockout stages, I can't see them shitting the bed for a week about the PFA Player of the Year.

 

Some good, relevant points above about how they were set up and the failings of that Gerrard/Henderson partnership, but minus Suarez, that Uruguay side isn't particularly good. Suarez took his chances well, but the players in that maligned England back four will undoubtably do a better job against similarly great players when they wear their club shirts next season. The heads just drop when they play for England. Maybe the culture can change with a new generation.