The Prophet Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Been saying for months Gerrard-Henderson would leave the side vulnerableas a defensive unit, see Liverpool minus Lucas. As overrated as I think it is it might have been worth taking Jones to add a bit of insurance in the middle. They did take Jones. You'd of though given the lack of defensive midfielder he'd have been given a run out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Henderson always seems so close to his midfield partner. It's like he can't get through a game without holding hands as if he is a terrified kid. He's only in there to "be busy" which is basically "make up the numbers". 20 years ago he'd be classed as a nothing player but now he's an automatic starter for his country. He's there to make up for the fact Gerrard can't run, he's essential IMO. Gerrard shouldn't be playing, which removes the need for Henderson. Quite easy really. As the youths may enunciate: boom, head shot. On aye, I agree, I just think that realistically no manager was going to leave Gerrard out, therefore Wilshere can't really play and Henderson has to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Gerrard deserved his place, firstly on the back of a very good Premiership season, where he was comfortably the best English midfield player. Secondly he has been worthy of his position because of his performances whilst he's been captain. He was our best player at Euro 12 and has been consistently adequate since. However, it is definitely time to move on from him now, I'd leave him out of the side for the Costa Rica game. That said, there'd be a few more Merseyside players I'd be leaving out with him.....in fact all of them except Sturridge, Sterling and Barkley. I never rated Sir Bobby as an England manager. In 2 World Cups we had fairly successful campaigns in spite of his management not because of it. But he wouldn't have been afraid to throw the likes of Barkley in from the start, like he did with Gazza in much the same circumstances pre Italia 90. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lallana was the best English midfielder last season. But yes, fair play to you for calling it like it is regarding his future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lallana was the best English midfielder last season. But yes, fair play to you for calling it like it is regarding his future. There is no point in playing him bar Hodgson being sentimental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Lallana was the best English midfielder last season. But yes, fair play to you for calling it like it is regarding his future. Lallana wouldn't have made much impact due to Uruguay's aggressiveness. He plays like a pussy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Gerrard deserved his place, firstly on the back of a very good Premiership season, where he was comfortably the best English midfield player. Secondly he has been worthy of his position because of his performances whilst he's been captain. I basically agree with that but IMO the overriding factor should be the selection that results in the most balanced and productive team overall. Not that it ever happens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEMTEX Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Don't think the choice of players makes a huge deal of difference right now tbh. I think whatever squad of players we have, we need someone who is capable of getting them to play on the big stage without shitting their pants at the slightest bit of pressure. The only time we looked capable was when we were losing. England will never win anything until there is a huge huge psychological change within the squad. I know the pressure put on them by the media/fanbase is great, but we're by no means alone on that, and plenty of countries get mediocre players to play well because they instill the mentality that these games are there to be cherished, and for you to take control of. We seem to go out thinking "whatever you do, don't fuck up", which quite obviously results in people fucking up. Anyway, rage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Been saying for months Gerrard-Henderson would leave the side vulnerableas a defensive unit, see Liverpool minus Lucas. As overrated as I think it is it might have been worth taking Jones to add a bit of insurance in the middle. Gerrard and Henderson were fine.... the issue is who the 3rd guy is and whether he can link the play between them and the forwards enough. In the Italy game we did that well, against Uruguay we didn't because Rooney played there and Rooney can never expected to be that guy and its not his fault. If you're going to play Henderson and Gerrard its important the gap between them and Sturridge isn't too large. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Defensively, we've looked vulnerable in both games. The midfield have played a major part in that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Defensively, we've looked vulnerable in both games. The midfield have played a major part in that. You can't blame the midfield for Jagielka ball watching on two occasions. The fact is there are three out of the back 4 who aren't good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Gerrard and Henderson contributed loads to Liverpools defensive frailty last season, but they were also the in form players for the position. Fair enough to pick them but Gerrard is through now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest n4e Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Defensively, we've looked vulnerable in both games. The midfield have played a major part in that. You can't blame the midfield for Jagielka ball watching on two occasions. The fact is there are three out of the back 4 who aren't good enough. Theres no way we'd look that bad defensively with Terry and Cole playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 http://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/cattermole-for-england.932620/ Catts for me, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Haven't seen a ball kicked of the world cup so far. Were we terrible? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shays Given Tim Flowers Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We weren't terrible but we weren't good enough. Showed some promise but for an event that occurs once every four years that doesn't cut the mustard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Haven't seen a ball kicked of the world cup so far. Were we terrible? It's been mint overall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trumpet Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 It appears barring a miracle, this World Cup is over for England. With the new generation of younger players, most talented of which are offensive/attacking players, England need a manager who can get the most out of them, as opposed to a safety first/cautious guy like Roy. Seeing England's Euro '16 qualifying group is piss easy as well, there is no reason to not start fresh and get that team ready for the qualifiers. Who'd be a proper manager though? Fair to say no Brit really fits that criteria, I'd argue a South American manager may be an interesting shout for England. As for yesterday, I said before the WC too, that a midfield duo of Gerrard-Henderson doesn't work. It was the reason Liverpool was outran in second half of games in first half of the season before Rodgers changed the formation. Here is an average position comparison of England last night and Liverpool. The players ARE the same, but their roles are extremely different due to tactics. http://i57.tinypic.com/3024e45.png You see the gap between the CBs and 2 holding midfielders for England ?! Not to mention the fullbacks and the acres of space that is left behind there. England on paper should be a compact unit, but they have been anything but under Roy's tactics yesterday. So much have been made of "Liverpool formula"....the FORMULA, was to press relentlessly in the first 20 minutes and shock opposition and get an early lead. That was the crux of it. England have comparable staff and personnel, but so much more static, less compact, and without the press in comparison Also notice the gap between Rooney and the other 2 central midfielders in the map. That's what Mole is referring too. That's where Alvaro Rios was all the time yesterday picking up all the balls. That's exactly the hole that Cavani crawled back in many many times to help out Uruguay's midfield. With England's current personnel, I really think a 4-4-2 diamond is the way to go. I love it because it gives so much stability and control over midfield. It solves the Rooney dilemma (if he remains) , and Sterling is A LOT better and more influential central than on the wing. It also fits young talents like Barkley well, as they can both play as tip of the diamond or as one of the midfielders. In the diamond, you also won't need a specialized DM. All around CMs that can do a bit of everything will fit the bill. It's the most logical thing and formation to pick for England, and that's why it probably won't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Here's one to ponder: if your players were born Germans and vice versa, would Germany be as good as a major tournament competitor, and England be as s***? I'm afraid so personally. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with the English players on a phyiscal/technical level. The main issues preventing England from doing well are all mental, strategic and tactical. The role that the media plays is also unjustifiably huge. Team England should take a leaf out of MA and ban most if not all English media from the squad starting from 2 months before a major tournament. "Team England" ugh. I think it's cringeworthy as fuck as well. Used it tongue in cheek tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 All the England players who look fantastic for their clubs always look lost when they don't have any of their foreign team mates alongside them. Look at Sturridge and Sterling, they haven't had a bad tournament, but if they had Suarez to work with yesterday, it would have been a win for us. We just lack a bit of magic up front, and while Rooney's still a good player, he's not the force he was a few years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We lack some world class players and a world class manager. pretty simple really. Edit: As a country we still dont produce anywhere near enough good footballing players. We rarely produce a quality play maker and its a once in a lifetime we have a Centreback that can start things off from the back. Our country really needs to look at how kids are coached and what we produce as a nation. For a country that has the richest league in the world and football is a religion, we produce some seriously average players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We lack some world class players and a world class manager. pretty simple really. Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We lack some world class players and a world class manager. pretty simple really. Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest. :lol: Ill get off my soap box then. Tbh my point still stands to a certain degree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 We lack some world class players and a world class manager. pretty simple really. Chile beat Spain with players from Nottingham Forest. They also have one of the best midfielders in the world and Sanchez which kind of cancels it out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Spain also looked tried and not up for it at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts