Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 The wastage of Scholes in an England shirt man, absolutely ridiculous. I'll second that. And there's been some real rewriting of history here by the usual suspects. Frank Lampard hasn't been a good England player and while Steven Gerrard hasn't performed at his full potential for England, he's been comfortably better than Lampard who has rarely performed at International level. The reason being, at International level you have to have more in your locker than what Lampard has. Picking the ball up 30 yards from goal, advancing 5 or 10 yards then shooting, which Frank has made a career from, just doesn't cut it. Gerrard is a better passer, tackler, is quicker and has more fitness. And has the ability to control a game. Lampard never had that to his game. I remember having virtually the same debate about Gascoigne and Platt. And Gerrard and Lampard is a good comparison with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 To me it's pretty obvious that it's because they were both played at the same time. Both could have been excellent England players and it has nothing to do with either of them not having the quality, the chemistry didn't work with them because despite their differences in style, their roles for Chelsea and Liverpool were the same. People always say the same things and pick out Lampard as the lesser of the two, when for me he's the much more intelligent footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 At international level I always said Lampard over Gerrard, his ability to pick passes and keeping the ball is even more vital against the bigger international teams. But as stated already, I would say Scholes is the best midfielder England has produced since I started watching football (1997). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 To me it's pretty obvious that it's because they were both played at the same time. Both could have been excellent England players and it has nothing to do with either of them not having the quality, the chemistry didn't work with them because despite their differences in style, their roles for Chelsea and Liverpool were the same. People always say the same things and pick out Lampard as the lesser of the two, when for me he's the much more intelligent footballer. Not intelligent at all if you Google his 9/11 antics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 At international level I always said Lampard over Gerrard, his ability to pick passes and keeping the ball is even more vital against the bigger international teams. But as stated already, I would say Scholes is the best midfielder England has produced since I started watching football (1997). Lampard went missing far too often for England. And as I said, whilst Gerrard never reached the heights internationally that he should have, he was still comfortably better than Lampard in an England shirt. Even as recently as 2 years ago he was England's best player at a major tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPL Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 At international level I always said Lampard over Gerrard, his ability to pick passes and keeping the ball is even more vital against the bigger international teams. But as stated already, I would say Scholes is the best midfielder England has produced since I started watching football (1997). Lampard went missing far too often for England. And as I said, whilst Gerrard never reached the heights internationally that he should have, he was still comfortably better than Lampard in an England shirt. Even as recently as 2 years ago he was England's best player at a major tournament. Lampard was played far too often in a 4-4-2 alongside Gerrard which didn't suit him, same can be said for Gerrard and also Scholes on the left in a diamond 4-4-2. Was probably to the detriment that we had so many gifted CAM's at the same time. One of the best games I saw from Lampard was actually when Ledley King was playing the DM role giving Lampard license to bomb forward. Gerrard popped up with crucial goals in the world cup so was tough to drop one of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 At international level I always said Lampard over Gerrard, his ability to pick passes and keeping the ball is even more vital against the bigger international teams. But as stated already, I would say Scholes is the best midfielder England has produced since I started watching football (1997). Lampard went missing far too often for England. And as I said, whilst Gerrard never reached the heights internationally that he should have, he was still comfortably better than Lampard in an England shirt. Even as recently as 2 years ago he was England's best player at a major tournament. Lampard was played far too often in a 4-4-2 alongside Gerrard which didn't suit him, same can be said for Gerrard and also Scholes on the left in a diamond 4-4-2. Was probably to the detriment that we had so many gifted CAM's at the same time. One of the best games I saw from Lampard was actually when Ledley King was playing the DM role giving Lampard license to bomb forward. Gerrard popped up with crucial goals in the world cup so was tough to drop one of them. Sven should never have pushed Scholes out left to accommodate Lampard. We saw the potential of a Scholes/Gerrard partnership in the 5-1 in Germany. And that should've been our midfield pair barring injuries until 2006 or even 2008. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Gerrard's positionally flexible in terms of where he plays but tactically he's very rigid. As in he plays very much as an individual. Which can happen when you're the star player for a decade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Lampard has always been a more intelligent footballer than Gerrard in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Lampard has always been a more intelligent footballer than Gerrard in my opinion. As in he's seemed to make a good career out of being a limited player? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Lampard has always been a more intelligent footballer than Gerrard in my opinion. As in he's seemed to make a good career out of being a limited player? I think you are underestimating Lampard a huge amount in your analysis. I am not sure on what basis Lampard is a limited footballer - there is a huge amount more to his games than long range shots as you seem to imply. It would be a bit like me saying all Gerrard does is run around a lot (usually ending up in the wrong position), play long crossfield 'Hollywood' balls to the opposition full back and put in a few hard tackles (usually bordering on two footed). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Lampard has always been a more intelligent footballer than Gerrard in my opinion. As in he's seemed to make a good career out of being a limited player? I think you are underestimating Lampard a huge amount in your analysis. I am not sure on what basis Lampard is a limited footballer - there is a huge amount more to his games than long range shots as you seem to imply. It would be a bit like me saying all Gerrard does is run around a lot (usually ending up in the wrong position), play long crossfield 'Hollywood' balls to the opposition full back and put in a few hard tackles (usually bordering on two footed). That's honestly how I see Lampard. I don't recall him ever controlling a game in the way an International quality midfielder should. I think the comparison with David Platt is a very good one. Average footballers with a goalscoring knack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Lampard has always been a more intelligent footballer than Gerrard in my opinion. As in he's seemed to make a good career out of being a limited player? Limited players don't play his role in every single game at that level and be a resounding success for 10 years. That just doesn't happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I've watched him control most games that he's featured in for a decade. He's an excellent footballer with incredible positional sense and awareness. What he does isn't glamorous but it's just as impressive imo. I'd have him over Gerrard every year except maybe 2005. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Sorry but both of those posts are nonsense. Lampard is a goalscoring midfield player with little else in his arsenal. He isnt quick, he doesnt beat players nor win the ball nor play defence splitting passes. All staple parts of a quality midfielder. Some, like Gerrard, did all. There's the difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 David Platt You're talking about a player that was first name on the team sheet in the Abramovich era and a midfielder that's Chelsea's all-time top scorer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Sorry but both of those posts are nonsense. Lampard is a goalscoring midfield player with little else in his arsenal. He isnt quick, he doesnt beat players nor win the ball nor play defence splitting passes. All staple parts of a quality midfielder. Some, like Gerrard, did all. There's the difference. Nah, that's all wrong imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 David Platt You're talking about a player that was first name on the team sheet in the Abramovich era and a midfielder that's Chelsea's all-time top scorer. Im talking about a goalscoring midfield player with little else to bring to the table. In fact with Platt im talking about 2 of them. Indeed of the two I'd take Platt because of his workrate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Howeh Billy. Think about it man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Sorry but both of those posts are nonsense. Lampard is a goalscoring midfield player with little else in his arsenal. He isnt quick, he doesnt beat players nor win the ball nor play defence splitting passes. All staple parts of a quality midfielder. Some, like Gerrard, did all. There's the difference. I wouldn't say that Gerrard is renowned for his speed or ability to beat players. I would say Lampard has better vision, is more intelligent in his use of the ball and the way he timed his runs, and was a better/more effective passer of the ball than Gerrard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Sorry but both of those posts are nonsense. Lampard is a goalscoring midfield player with little else in his arsenal. He isnt quick, he doesnt beat players nor win the ball nor play defence splitting passes. All staple parts of a quality midfielder. Some, like Gerrard, did all. There's the difference. I wouldn't say that Gerrard is renowned for his speed or ability to beat players. I would say Lampard has better vision, is more intelligent in his use of the ball and the way he timed his runs, and was a better/more effective passer of the ball than Gerrard. I can honestly say that the game against Costa Rica was the first time that Lampards passing actually caught my eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 FWIW, he has the 3rd highest amount of assists in Premier League history...4 behind Gerrard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 FWIW, he has the 3rd highest amount of assists in Premier League history...4 behind Gerrard. How many deflected shots? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 No point in this, like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 By the way Gerrard has played 100 less League Games than Lampard too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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