Hanshithispantz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Why the f*** would we want to cater to Defoe's style though? He's a small striker, in both size and style, he offers no work rate, or physical presense that could help us up top. All he has is decent strike and a turn of pace which has netted him a slightly above average goal record. Absolutely useless signing for the price he would cost us. Because he'll return that with a haul of goals? He's done it all his career, I really don't know what standard of striker people are expecting us to sign to be honest, given the response to Defoe being linked. Jermain Defoe? A haul of goals? All his career? Jesus f***ing wept. Oh the hilarity 178 goals in 431 apps. Pathetic record. 100 goals in 307 premiership apearances, an absolute haul of goals mate, a haul of goals! Who would you sign who is better? It's not a question of just 'who is better', it's a question of who better fits into our playing style, and who wouldn't cost us absurd money for what we get in return. Fine, who "better fits into our playing style, and who wouldn't cost us absurd money for what we get in return"? Perhaps you will answer the question if I ask you you're own question. I didn't answer your question because it's pointless. I don't believe Defoe is the right striker for us, and i've gave my reasons (and thats what this debate is about). The midfield we have means we will probably play with 1 up top next season, and I don't believe Jermain Defoe's strenghs would at all shine in that position for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 In what world is one in three s****? Aye, I did say it was shit like, didn't I. Aye, I did say you did, didn't I. Just the general consensus some are portraying. Defoe has generally been a very good goalscorer for club and country, to say otherwise is mental IMO. Yeah, he's not Shearer (1 in 2) or Messi/Ronaldo/Torres/Drogba (1 in 1) but there tends to be a very small bunch of fantastic strikers and a very large bunch of mediocre strikers. Defoe is neither. Very true sir. Nah, middle ground doesn't exist. Either someone is wonderful or they're shit. Since Defoe isn't great, he's automatically shit and you, a team consistently playing Shola Ameobi and Peter Lovenkrands, should stay well away. Of course, it's not that realistic Spurs would sell for a reasonable fee (under £8m) and it remains to be seen what wages he'd ask for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Has anyone even said he's shit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Defoe is a good finisher, inside and outside the box. For that, he needs to play right up on the last defenders, but at the same time, like Owen, he's not great at holding the ball up. That kind of striker isn't so much in favour at the top level any more. I was watching Romário compilation earlier on today, and thought to myself, there's nobody out there like him anymore. As the modern game has evolved away from these types of players. Shame really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Defoe? I'd have him at Everton. He wouldn't be my first choice but if you said, here he is for a reasonable fee and not on huge wages, then I'd say yes. You can't say that here man! If he's a PL striker over the age of 27, he's overrated, overpriced, on his way down, would demand ridiculous wages and is generally s***. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Has anyone even said he's shit? I flipping well hope not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Has anyone even said he's shit? I flipping well hope not. Don't think so, which means most of us would put him on that non-existent middle ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 In what world is one in three s****? Aye, I did say it was s*** like, didn't I. Aye, I did say you did, didn't I. Just the general consensus some are portraying. Defoe has generally been a very good goalscorer for club and country, to say otherwise is mental IMO. Yeah, he's not Shearer (1 in 2) or Messi/Ronaldo/Torres/Drogba (1 in 1) but there tends to be a very small bunch of fantastic strikers and a very large bunch of mediocre strikers. Defoe is neither. Aye, I agree and i've never argued against this (I even said he has a slightly better than average record in my opening post) His goalscoring isn't good enough though to mask his shortcomings elsewhere imo, especialy if he will largely be played by himself up top, which imo would be the best way for us to go with the midfield players at our disposal. If we could get him cheap then aye, i'd take him straight away, but I wouldn't break the bank on him out of desperation, and I certainly wouldn't mould the team around him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Defoe is a good finisher, inside and outside the box. For that, he needs to play right up on the last defenders, but at the same time, like Owen, he's not great at holding the ball up. That kind of striker isn't so much in favour at the top level any more. I was watching Romário compilation earlier on today, and thought to myself, there's nobody out there like him anymore. As the modern game has evolved away from these types of players. Shame really. Italian football still produces them by the bucketload. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Defoe is a good finisher, inside and outside the box. For that, he needs to play right up on the last defenders, but at the same time, like Owen, he's not great at holding the ball up. That kind of striker isn't so much in favour at the top level any more. I was watching Romário compilation earlier on today, and thought to myself, there's nobody out there like him anymore. As the modern game has evolved away from these types of players. Shame really. Italian football still produces them by the bucketload. Top level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 In what world is one in three s****? Aye, I did say it was s*** like, didn't I. Aye, I did say you did, didn't I. Just the general consensus some are portraying. Defoe has generally been a very good goalscorer for club and country, to say otherwise is mental IMO. Yeah, he's not Shearer (1 in 2) or Messi/Ronaldo/Torres/Drogba (1 in 1) but there tends to be a very small bunch of fantastic strikers and a very large bunch of mediocre strikers. Defoe is neither. Very true sir. Nah, middle ground doesn't exist. Either someone is wonderful or they're s***. Since Defoe isn't great, he's automatically s*** and you, a team consistently playing Shola Ameobi and Peter Lovenkrands, should stay well away. Of course, it's not that realistic Spurs would sell for a reasonable fee (under £8m) and it remains to be seen what wages he'd ask for. This is the epitome of straw-manning the shit out of something, incase anyone needed a decent example Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Why the f*** would we want to cater to Defoe's style though? He's a small striker, in both size and style, he offers no work rate, or physical presense that could help us up top. All he has is decent strike and a turn of pace which has netted him a slightly above average goal record. Absolutely useless signing for the price he would cost us. Because he'll return that with a haul of goals? He's done it all his career, I really don't know what standard of striker people are expecting us to sign to be honest, given the response to Defoe being linked. Jermain Defoe? A haul of goals? All his career? Jesus f***ing wept. Oh the hilarity 178 goals in 431 apps. Pathetic record. 100 goals in 307 premiership apearances, an absolute haul of goals mate, a haul of goals! Who would you sign who is better? It's not a question of just 'who is better', it's a question of who better fits into our playing style, and who wouldn't cost us absurd money for what we get in return. Fine, who "better fits into our playing style, and who wouldn't cost us absurd money for what we get in return"? Perhaps you will answer the question if I ask you you're own question. I didn't answer your question because it's pointless. I don't believe Defoe is the right striker for us, and i've gave my reasons (and thats what this debate is about). The midfield we have means we will probably play with 1 up top next season, and I don't believe Jermain Defoe's strenghs would at all shine in that position for us. 1 up top next season? home and away? - Why does our current midfield make you think that when we've played two up front most times? So with one striker up front you would want someone bigger perhaps? someone better at holding up play? At least have some balls to have go at saying who you would want for that role over Defoe. Pointless? what a silly thing to say. You could shut down 70% of this forum as pointless based on individual peoples view, but the whole point is to discuss Newcastle United, and who we could have as a single striker or as a striking pair next season is not pointless. Perhaps it is when your desperately trying to duck a question like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 As Defoe has next to nothing but goalscoring to his game, i don't think being a one in three striker is all that great. since we're most likely planning on playing one up front ahead of ben arfa, i can't think of too many strikers more ill-suited to the role. he's better playing up front with someone like crouch. someone mentioned Hernandez, he's a great example of what Defoe is not. while i think hernandez needs a bit more to his game long term (his searing pace won't last forever), he's intelligent, makes great runs, works selflessly and tirelessly for the team, can hold the ball up and creatively find others. almost plays like a defensive forward/link man mixed with an off the shoulder poacher, depending on the situation he finds himself in, which makes him significantly different to Defoe now or Owen in the past. Defoe's also wildly inconsistent, and goes through long barren runs as well as purple patches within the course of a season. on top of that he'll cost a bit and is getting on so will probably go into a slow decline for the next few years. doesn't make sense on just about any level to go for him. the only rationale i can see is the "he's available and is decent enough with experience, even if he doesnt fit our squad we'll find a way to incorporate him", the same kind of logic that brought duff, butt, campbell etc here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Has anyone even said he's shit? When you say he would be a terrible signing for Newcastle United, one would think he was a bit on the shit side for what we are after. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 In what world is one in three s****? Aye, I did say it was s*** like, didn't I. Aye, I did say you did, didn't I. Just the general consensus some are portraying. Defoe has generally been a very good goalscorer for club and country, to say otherwise is mental IMO. Yeah, he's not Shearer (1 in 2) or Messi/Ronaldo/Torres/Drogba (1 in 1) but there tends to be a very small bunch of fantastic strikers and a very large bunch of mediocre strikers. Defoe is neither. Very true sir. Nah, middle ground doesn't exist. Either someone is wonderful or they're s***. Since Defoe isn't great, he's automatically s*** and you, a team consistently playing Shola Ameobi and Peter Lovenkrands, should stay well away. Of course, it's not that realistic Spurs would sell for a reasonable fee (under £8m) and it remains to be seen what wages he'd ask for. This is the epitome of straw-manning the shit out of something, incase anyone needed a decent example Wrong. I never said anyone said he's shit, I'm commenting - tongue in cheek - on the surprising negative reaction to a player who is proven in this league and certainly not someone I'd call finished at this level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Has anyone even said he's shit? When you say he would be a terrible signing for Newcastle United, one would think he was a bit on the shit side for what we are after. Keep grasping. No one's called him shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waddles mullet Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 The Breton club has already received an offer of 10 million euros in Newcastle. Between the desire to respect the player and the fact that the Breton club wants to sell his best player at the highest price, it will not be easy to balance all interests. The ball is clearly in the camp of Valencia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Defoe is a good finisher, inside and outside the box. For that, he needs to play right up on the last defenders, but at the same time, like Owen, he's not great at holding the ball up. That kind of striker isn't so much in favour at the top level any more. I was watching Romário compilation earlier on today, and thought to myself, there's nobody out there like him anymore. As the modern game has evolved away from these types of players. Shame really. Italian football still produces them by the bucketload. Top level. Bitch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Has anyone even said he's shit? When you say he would be a terrible signing for Newcastle United, one would think he was a bit on the shit side for what we are after. Keep grasping. No one's called him shit. Are you defending your comment on him being a terrible signing on the basis he wouldn't be a shit signing or player if at Newcastle United? or because you didn't use the actual word "shit". Oh and yes someone did... they said... "He's fucking shit, fucking shit, fucking shit, fucking shit, fucking shit, fucking shit, fucking shit, fucking shit and he's fucking shit. Fucking shit." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Why the f*** would we want to cater to Defoe's style though? He's a small striker, in both size and style, he offers no work rate, or physical presense that could help us up top. All he has is decent strike and a turn of pace which has netted him a slightly above average goal record. Absolutely useless signing for the price he would cost us. Because he'll return that with a haul of goals? He's done it all his career, I really don't know what standard of striker people are expecting us to sign to be honest, given the response to Defoe being linked. Jermain Defoe? A haul of goals? All his career? Jesus f***ing wept. Oh the hilarity 178 goals in 431 apps. Pathetic record. 100 goals in 307 premiership apearances, an absolute haul of goals mate, a haul of goals! Who would you sign who is better? It's not a question of just 'who is better', it's a question of who better fits into our playing style, and who wouldn't cost us absurd money for what we get in return. Fine, who "better fits into our playing style, and who wouldn't cost us absurd money for what we get in return"? Perhaps you will answer the question if I ask you you're own question. I didn't answer your question because it's pointless. I don't believe Defoe is the right striker for us, and i've gave my reasons (and thats what this debate is about). The midfield we have means we will probably play with 1 up top next season, and I don't believe Jermain Defoe's strenghs would at all shine in that position for us. 1 up top next season? home and away? - Why does our current midfield make you think that when we've played two up front most times? So with one striker up front you would want someone bigger perhaps? someone better at holding up play? At least have some balls to have go at saying who you would want for that role over Defoe. Pointless? what a silly thing to say. You could shut down 70% of this forum as pointless based on individual peoples view, but the whole point is to discuss Newcastle United, and who we could have as a single striker or as a striking pair next season is not pointless. Perhaps it is when your desperately trying to duck a question like. Nolan will not be dropped, no way, neither will Tiote or Barton or Ben Arfa, and Jonas been dropped is very doubtful, plus we are apparently close to signing an international midfielder so the chances are we will go 5 in midfield imo. And I never once said we should go with a big striker, or someone better at holding up play, i'd take a small man who works his balls off and can interlink play, Defoe cannot, or does not do that. And I don't know how much money we have to spend and who is truly available, so my suggestions would be utterly pointless. I can only imagine that my disaproval of Defoe has upset you in some way that you seek to gain some kind of revenge by attacking any players that I may suggest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 In what world is one in three s****? Aye, I did say it was s*** like, didn't I. Aye, I did say you did, didn't I. Just the general consensus some are portraying. Defoe has generally been a very good goalscorer for club and country, to say otherwise is mental IMO. Yeah, he's not Shearer (1 in 2) or Messi/Ronaldo/Torres/Drogba (1 in 1) but there tends to be a very small bunch of fantastic strikers and a very large bunch of mediocre strikers. Defoe is neither. Very true sir. Nah, middle ground doesn't exist. Either someone is wonderful or they're s***. Since Defoe isn't great, he's automatically s*** and you, a team consistently playing Shola Ameobi and Peter Lovenkrands, should stay well away. Of course, it's not that realistic Spurs would sell for a reasonable fee (under £8m) and it remains to be seen what wages he'd ask for. This is the epitome of straw-manning the s*** out of something, incase anyone needed a decent example Wrong. I never said anyone said he's s***, I'm commenting - tongue in cheek - on the surprising negative reaction to a player who is proven in this league and certainly not someone I'd call finished at this level. the whole post, tongue in cheek or not, was designed to sugest that there is no gray area, and that people are either suggesting he is amazing or turd. Considering nobody has even come close to seriously suggesting either of these things (exept jason and his "hauls of goals" imagery) you pretty much straw-manned the whole fucking thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Why the f*** would we want to cater to Defoe's style though? He's a small striker, in both size and style, he offers no work rate, or physical presense that could help us up top. All he has is decent strike and a turn of pace which has netted him a slightly above average goal record. Absolutely useless signing for the price he would cost us. Because he'll return that with a haul of goals? He's done it all his career, I really don't know what standard of striker people are expecting us to sign to be honest, given the response to Defoe being linked. Jermain Defoe? A haul of goals? All his career? Jesus f***ing wept. Oh the hilarity 178 goals in 431 apps. Pathetic record. 100 goals in 307 premiership apearances, an absolute haul of goals mate, a haul of goals! Who would you sign who is better? It's not a question of just 'who is better', it's a question of who better fits into our playing style, and who wouldn't cost us absurd money for what we get in return. Fine, who "better fits into our playing style, and who wouldn't cost us absurd money for what we get in return"? Perhaps you will answer the question if I ask you you're own question. I didn't answer your question because it's pointless. I don't believe Defoe is the right striker for us, and i've gave my reasons (and thats what this debate is about). The midfield we have means we will probably play with 1 up top next season, and I don't believe Jermain Defoe's strenghs would at all shine in that position for us. 1 up top next season? home and away? - Why does our current midfield make you think that when we've played two up front most times? So with one striker up front you would want someone bigger perhaps? someone better at holding up play? At least have some balls to have go at saying who you would want for that role over Defoe. Pointless? what a silly thing to say. You could shut down 70% of this forum as pointless based on individual peoples view, but the whole point is to discuss Newcastle United, and who we could have as a single striker or as a striking pair next season is not pointless. Perhaps it is when your desperately trying to duck a question like. Nolan will not be dropped, no way, neither will Tiote or Barton or Ben Arfa, and Jonas been dropped is very doubtful, plus we are apparently close to signing an international midfielder so the chances are we will go 5 in midfield imo. And I never once said we should go with a big striker, or someone better at holding up play, i'd take a small man who works his balls off and can interlink play, Defoe cannot, or does not do that. And I don't know how much money we have to spend and who is truly available, so my suggestions would be utterly pointless. I can only imagine that my disaproval of Defoe has upset you in some way that you seek to gain some kind of revenge by attacking any players that I may suggest Well as you were so reclusive in your posts I had to try and fill in the gaps to engage a response. I didn't really try to force opinions on you, but you hardly come clean with your thoughts either. So I just suggested a few aspects that could be seen as opposites to Defoe. Nobody knows how much money we will have to spend, only the club know that. So why not do what we are all doing, trying to gauge what we think will be our budget and who could be our targets. You don't have to be right and it means fuck all if your wrong. But saying who we shouldn't get when you haven't got a clue on who we should seems a bit odd. I'm not asking you to tell me who you want based on it not being pointless, it would be regardless. It's a football forum, think out loud for a change in equal positive and negative measure. If you think Defoe isn't the right man and you can state reasons which are not "pointless" in your eyes, why can't you do it for someone who you think is the right man? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 In what world is one in three s****? Aye, I did say it was s*** like, didn't I. Aye, I did say you did, didn't I. Just the general consensus some are portraying. Defoe has generally been a very good goalscorer for club and country, to say otherwise is mental IMO. Yeah, he's not Shearer (1 in 2) or Messi/Ronaldo/Torres/Drogba (1 in 1) but there tends to be a very small bunch of fantastic strikers and a very large bunch of mediocre strikers. Defoe is neither. Very true sir. Nah, middle ground doesn't exist. Either someone is wonderful or they're s***. Since Defoe isn't great, he's automatically s*** and you, a team consistently playing Shola Ameobi and Peter Lovenkrands, should stay well away. Of course, it's not that realistic Spurs would sell for a reasonable fee (under £8m) and it remains to be seen what wages he'd ask for. This is the epitome of straw-manning the s*** out of something, incase anyone needed a decent example Wrong. I never said anyone said he's s***, I'm commenting - tongue in cheek - on the surprising negative reaction to a player who is proven in this league and certainly not someone I'd call finished at this level. the whole post, tongue in cheek or not, was designed to sugest that there is no gray area, and that people are either suggesting he is amazing or turd. Considering nobody has even come close to seriously suggesting either of these things (exept jason and his "hauls of goals" imagery) you pretty much straw-manned the whole fucking thread Whatever you say. It was a throwaway comment like most of the stuff on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 In what world is one in three s****? Aye, I did say it was shit like, didn't I. Aye, I did say you did, didn't I. Just the general consensus some are portraying. Defoe has generally been a very good goalscorer for club and country, to say otherwise is mental IMO. Yeah, he's not Shearer (1 in 2) or Messi/Ronaldo/Torres/Drogba (1 in 1) but there tends to be a very small bunch of fantastic strikers and a very large bunch of mediocre strikers. Defoe is neither. Yep: Messi - Goal every 1.8 games Shearer - Goal every 1.98 games C. Ronaldo - Goal every 2 games Drogba - Goal every 2.16 games Torres - Goal every 2.37 games Defoe - Goal every 2.92 games Ameobi - Goal every 4.91 games Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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