Spain win World Cup 2010

[Robster]

Cruyff's attitude to how to play football 

[Mr. Snrub]

Cruyff

 

 

[Village Idiot]

Cruyff

 

http://kozhev.ru/tt/smiley_pray.gif

[Guest Stephen927]

You see Spain's tiki-taka is beyond reproach simply because they are Spain. Now, I'm not taking anything away from them but the pretty triangles and constant passing without, perhaps, enough to show for it is a criticism leveled at Arsenal. And rightly enough at times. Yet it's amusing - and when I say amusing I mean amusing in a way that makes you want to kick your TV in - how the standards of various TV pundits differ when viewing the international game.

 

Now, I'm well aware of the main difference between Spain and Arsenal - that being major trophies in recent years - but look at the way they spoke about Holland last night. To a man, led by Count Hansen, they slammed the Dutch for their approach to the game. Brutal. Violent. Sickening. Anti-football. Words I heard last night. And when referring to van Bommel and de Jong they're right. The former got away with a horrible potential leg-breaker on Iniesta which should have been a red card and de Jong's flying karate kick into the chest of Xabi Alonso was more assault than tackle. He should have been off as well.

 

So Hansen and his pals roundly condemn challenges like that. Which is the right thing to do for the game of football. Yet why is it that there's a tolerance of that kind of football when they analyse Arsenal games? We hear them say stuff like 'If you let Arsenal play they'll kill you with their passing. You have to get stuck in. Let them know you're there. It's a physical game. It's the only way you can play them', whenever we're facing a Bolton or Blackburn or a Stoke.

 

Where's their interest in protecting the aesthetics of the game then? They are, to a man, the greatest pack of hypocrites in football. If it's not ok to kick Spain then it's not ok to kick Arsenal ... or anyone else. They'll call van Bommel a thug, which he is, but it's easy to do that when it's not an Englishman or fellow Brit doing the clogging (no pun intended) or leg snapping.

 

When professional footballers speak before a game about how you have to kick Arsenal, literally, to compete in a game they have a little titter, complain about Arsene Wenger moaning and accuse us of being weak, needing to man-up. Yet they couldn't condemn the Dutch fast enough. And leaving aside van Bommel and de Jong there wasn't another dirty player on the pitch. Bookings are part and parcel of the game, Spain picked up a few too. There's another thing - why do they ignore the cynical side of the Spaniards? If you're going to have a go at dirty/foul play why not criticise the Spanish for the way they constantly crowded the referee waving imaginary cards?

 

Anyway, I could go on and on about these arseholes but what's the point? We know they're hypocrites, sadly they get paid a lot of money to go on TV and show themselves up. The first time a team manages a result against us playing 'Dutch' they'll be chuckling about how Arsenal don't like it up 'em. Honestly, they are just appalling people and rotten football pundits.

 

From Arseblog. Some good points.

[Stu]

[Village Idiot]

To be honest, have to agree regarding punditry.

 

However, personally I accept teams taking it rough to us if it's within the rules. I don't like it but you do what you have to do in order to win. As in, I don't consider we have license to be allowed to play our pretty passes while the others watch.

[Dokko]

You see Spain's tiki-taka is beyond reproach simply because they are Spain. Now, I'm not taking anything away from them but the pretty triangles and constant passing without, perhaps, enough to show for it is a criticism leveled at Arsenal. And rightly enough at times. Yet it's amusing - and when I say amusing I mean amusing in a way that makes you want to kick your TV in - how the standards of various TV pundits differ when viewing the international game.

 

Now, I'm well aware of the main difference between Spain and Arsenal - that being major trophies in recent years - but look at the way they spoke about Holland last night. To a man, led by Count Hansen, they slammed the Dutch for their approach to the game. Brutal. Violent. Sickening. Anti-football. Words I heard last night. And when referring to van Bommel and de Jong they're right. The former got away with a horrible potential leg-breaker on Iniesta which should have been a red card and de Jong's flying karate kick into the chest of Xabi Alonso was more assault than tackle. He should have been off as well.

 

So Hansen and his pals roundly condemn challenges like that. Which is the right thing to do for the game of football. Yet why is it that there's a tolerance of that kind of football when they analyse Arsenal games? We hear them say stuff like 'If you let Arsenal play they'll kill you with their passing. You have to get stuck in. Let them know you're there. It's a physical game. It's the only way you can play them', whenever we're facing a Bolton or Blackburn or a Stoke.

 

Where's their interest in protecting the aesthetics of the game then? They are, to a man, the greatest pack of hypocrites in football. If it's not ok to kick Spain then it's not ok to kick Arsenal ... or anyone else. They'll call van Bommel a thug, which he is, but it's easy to do that when it's not an Englishman or fellow Brit doing the clogging (no pun intended) or leg snapping.

 

When professional footballers speak before a game about how you have to kick Arsenal, literally, to compete in a game they have a little titter, complain about Arsene Wenger moaning and accuse us of being weak, needing to man-up. Yet they couldn't condemn the Dutch fast enough. And leaving aside van Bommel and de Jong there wasn't another dirty player on the pitch. Bookings are part and parcel of the game, Spain picked up a few too. There's another thing - why do they ignore the cynical side of the Spaniards? If you're going to have a go at dirty/foul play why not criticise the Spanish for the way they constantly crowded the referee waving imaginary cards?

 

Anyway, I could go on and on about these arseholes but what's the point? We know they're hypocrites, sadly they get paid a lot of money to go on TV and show themselves up. The first time a team manages a result against us playing 'Dutch' they'll be chuckling about how Arsenal don't like it up 'em. Honestly, they are just appalling people and rotten football pundits.

 

From Arseblog. Some good points.

 

What total rubbish.

 

That Arsenal fan can cry as much as he wants about tackling, soak up the Wenger bullshit that they are targeted and refs do fuk all against them but those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Arsenal are and always have been a snide and dirty team, playing any kind of underhand tactics to win a game. There's a nasty side to Arsenal, he's clearly forgetting about that when spewing all that poor me bollocks there.

 

 

[Mr. Snrub]

Aye.

 

Arsenal wish they could play like Spain/Barcelona, but when the realism sets in that they can't and they start getting outplayed, they throw the toys out of the pram and become a snide, dislikeable team.

 

They're quite happy to bully smaller teams, but when it's roles reversed it becomes unacceptable in Wenger's books

[M4]

Some even better points brought up by TT and Messi.

 

Just some classic Arsenal moaning really.

[alpal78]

You see Spain's tiki-taka is beyond reproach simply because they are Spain. Now, I'm not taking anything away from them but the pretty triangles and constant passing without, perhaps, enough to show for it is a criticism leveled at Arsenal. And rightly enough at times. Yet it's amusing - and when I say amusing I mean amusing in a way that makes you want to kick your TV in - how the standards of various TV pundits differ when viewing the international game.

 

Now, I'm well aware of the main difference between Spain and Arsenal - that being major trophies in recent years - but look at the way they spoke about Holland last night. To a man, led by Count Hansen, they slammed the Dutch for their approach to the game. Brutal. Violent. Sickening. Anti-football. Words I heard last night. And when referring to van Bommel and de Jong they're right. The former got away with a horrible potential leg-breaker on Iniesta which should have been a red card and de Jong's flying karate kick into the chest of Xabi Alonso was more assault than tackle. He should have been off as well.

 

So Hansen and his pals roundly condemn challenges like that. Which is the right thing to do for the game of football. Yet why is it that there's a tolerance of that kind of football when they analyse Arsenal games? We hear them say stuff like 'If you let Arsenal play they'll kill you with their passing. You have to get stuck in. Let them know you're there. It's a physical game. It's the only way you can play them', whenever we're facing a Bolton or Blackburn or a Stoke.

 

Where's their interest in protecting the aesthetics of the game then? They are, to a man, the greatest pack of hypocrites in football. If it's not ok to kick Spain then it's not ok to kick Arsenal ... or anyone else. They'll call van Bommel a thug, which he is, but it's easy to do that when it's not an Englishman or fellow Brit doing the clogging (no pun intended) or leg snapping.

 

When professional footballers speak before a game about how you have to kick Arsenal, literally, to compete in a game they have a little titter, complain about Arsene Wenger moaning and accuse us of being weak, needing to man-up. Yet they couldn't condemn the Dutch fast enough. And leaving aside van Bommel and de Jong there wasn't another dirty player on the pitch. Bookings are part and parcel of the game, Spain picked up a few too. There's another thing - why do they ignore the cynical side of the Spaniards? If you're going to have a go at dirty/foul play why not criticise the Spanish for the way they constantly crowded the referee waving imaginary cards?

 

Anyway, I could go on and on about these arseholes but what's the point? We know they're hypocrites, sadly they get paid a lot of money to go on TV and show themselves up. The first time a team manages a result against us playing 'Dutch' they'll be chuckling about how Arsenal don't like it up 'em. Honestly, they are just appalling people and rotten football pundits.

 

From Arseblog. Some good points.

 

What total rubbish.

 

That Arsenal fan can cry as much as he wants about tackling, soak up the Wenger bullshit that they are targeted and refs do fuk all against them but those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Arsenal are and always have been a snide and dirty team, playing any kind of underhand tactics to win a game. There's a nasty side to Arsenal, he's clearly forgetting about that when spewing all that poor me bollocks there.

 

 

 

You are right yet you are missing the point. Yes Arsenal have 'dirty' players but they are not a dirty team like some others or like the Dutch played in the finals. For the record, Spain is not all beauty either, players like Puyol, Ramos and Xabi can give as good as they get. Most of Spain's yellow cards were deserved.

 

The real point the Arsenal fan is making is on the hypocrisy of pundits, the idea that Arsenal is a clean team is merely implied and not the point of his post.

 

His claims are spot on for 2 points.

 

1) When Spain play passing football, most pundits say it's ball control and how football should be played. When Arsenal do that, it's typical Arsenal, all pass and no cutting edge yet their style of play is very similar to Spain's (maybe one notch lower in terms of quality)

 

2) When British/premiership players go in with a reckless challenge that can potentially break a leg, most pundit defend it as the British/premiership way or phrase like "football is a physical game" or "it was not premeditated". But yesterday there was almost unanimous condemnation of both Van Bommel and De Jong and the Dutch team in general.

 

My view is that I like both Spain/Arsenal style of play and there is no place for reckless challenges (be it premeditated or not) in both the Premiership and international football. I hold a consistent view on both accounts. If you hold different standards for Spain and Arsenal, then of course you come across as a hypocrite!

 

 

 

 

[Guest firetotheworks]

The main point about that that I think is bullshit is that the pundits would condemn that style of play against Arsenal. There's a difference between being aggressive but fair, and what Van Bommel and De Jong were. If that was Arsenal vs Bolton last night, there'd be the same level of criticism. The whole article is a bit woe is me.

[alpal78]

The main point about that that I think is bullshit is that the pundits would condemn that style of play against Arsenal. There's a difference between being aggressive but fair, and what Van Bommel and De Jong were. If that was Arsenal vs Bolton last night, there'd be the same level of criticism. The whole article is a bit woe is me.

 

I agree with you to a certain extent. Yes a kung fu kick like De Jong's would have been condemned even in the premiership. But there were many late tackles and reckless challenges that were condemned in the finals that would have been condoned in the Premiership as just physical play. If someone broke a leg, it would have been unfortunate but not premeditated. The tackle on Aaron Ramsey comes to my mind. It was a lunging tackle, studs up at high speed, worse then many tackles in the final which were condemned, yet were seen as part of the Premiership by most pundits.

[Village Idiot]

Cesc and Puyol enjoying their beers after the game

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmvZPDA8TMI

 

[LiquidAK]

Why is Fabregas cupping himself the whole time?

[Skeletor]

Why is Fabregas cupping himself the whole time?

 

Doing the Al Bundy.

[Cronky]

The standard of punditry on TV generally isn't good. You look to these professionals to give you insights and opinions that reflect their superior experience in the game, but all too often they talk in obvious cliches or exaggerate in the way that most fans do - eg Worst England performance I've ever seen, the Dutch are a disgrace.

 

The only pundit that seemed to be coming out with anything original was Southgate, and that wasn't all the time.

 

The lesser known figures like Marcotti and Ballague are usually more interesting.

[ads]

The standard of punditry on TV generally isn't good. You look to these professionals to give you insights and opinions that reflect their superior experience in the game, but all too often they talk in obvious cliches or exaggerate in the way that most fans do - eg Worst England performance I've ever seen, the Dutch are a disgrace.

 

The only pundit that seemed to be coming out with anything original was Southgate, and that wasn't all the time.

 

The lesser known figures like Marcotti and Ballague are usually more interesting.

 

[Noisewater]

 

 

His claims are spot on for 2 points.

 

1) When Spain play passing football, most pundits say it's ball control and how football should be played. When Arsenal do that, it's typical Arsenal, all pass and no cutting edge yet their style of play is very similar to Spain's (maybe one notch lower in terms of quality)

 

2) When British/premiership players go in with a reckless challenge that can potentially break a leg, most pundit defend it as the British/premiership way or phrase like "football is a physical game" or "it was not premeditated". But yesterday there was almost unanimous condemnation of both Van Bommel and De Jong and the Dutch team in general.

 

My view is that I like both Spain/Arsenal style of play and there is no place for reckless challenges (be it premeditated or not) in both the Premiership and international football. I hold a consistent view on both accounts. If you hold different standards for Spain and Arsenal, then of course you come across as a hypocrite!

 

 

While I’m not a big fan of the pundits, they have a point when they talk about typical Arsenal (all style and no cutting edge), because Arsenal haven’t won anything in years. Winning matters and Spain have won it all.

 

The pundits have always made it clear they enjoy the way Arsenal play, but over time, when asked to analyse the Arsenal team, they always talk about how Arsenal lack a cutting edge. Over time, it becomes a joke/cliche. Arsene refuses to alter his way, yet it's not his fault, it’s always the opposition being dirty.

 

Regarding the condemnation of the Dutch, one thing I noticed them say was how they felt it was the Dutch game plan to kick the Spanish. Often in the premiership, teams will be physical against Arsenal. If it is over the top, the pundits tend to condemn it, but in the World Cup final, everybody knows it’s the “showcase” of football and Webb wanted to keep 11 v 11. The Dutch knew this and kept going through the back of players. And it wasn’t just Van Bommel and De Jong, the centre halves and Van Persie were at it too.

 

I feel I should mention Kuyt, who I don’t recall making any nasty challenges (though I could be wrong). Kuyt plays a physical game, buy not a dirty one. To me there is a difference.

 

 

[Disco]

Its no suprise that the better pundits who could offer insight were still or had been recently involved in football unlike the absolute dickheads like Townsend, Bright, Hansen et al.

[Dinho lad]

The standard of punditry on TV generally isn't good. You look to these professionals to give you insights and opinions that reflect their superior experience in the game, but all too often they talk in obvious cliches or exaggerate in the way that most fans do - eg Worst England performance I've ever seen, the Dutch are a disgrace.

 

The only pundit that seemed to be coming out with anything original was Southgate, and that wasn't all the time.

 

The lesser known figures like Marcotti and Ballague are usually more interesting.

 

 

this is the same guy who was laughing at us on talksport when we were beaten by partizan belgrade!

[oldtype]

My home club is giving out 2,000 free Vuvuzelas to home fans at our first match back from the summer break tomorrow to "recreate the atmosphere of the World Cup."

 

[Dokko]

The standard of punditry on TV generally isn't good. You look to these professionals to give you insights and opinions that reflect their superior experience in the game, but all too often they talk in obvious cliches or exaggerate in the way that most fans do - eg Worst England performance I've ever seen, the Dutch are a disgrace.

 

The only pundit that seemed to be coming out with anything original was Southgate, and that wasn't all the time.

 

The lesser known figures like Marcotti and Ballague are usually more interesting.

 

 

this is the same guy who was laughing at us on talksport when we were beaten by partizan belgrade!

 

We were the only ones who weren't laughing tbf. 

[Keefaz]

Best pundit was Roy Hodgson, tbh.

[TaylorJ_01]

I don't understand the Howard Webb hate from the Dutch (and Spain to a lesser extent). Absolutely nuts.

[jdckelly]

I don't understand the Howard Webb hate from the Dutch (and Spain to a lesser extent). Absolutely nuts.

spain is understandable enough, alonso did get a karate kick to the chest after all and no red

the dutch however should be thanking webb for not sending off half their side