The Liverpool Thread

[Cronky]

At the end of the day Liverpool fans want to win the league, or at the very least be competing in the Champions League. Regardless of "stability" i can't see that happening anytime soon.

 

Man City will have that fourth CL spot soon and should something go wrong with Arsenal, Spurs (sadly) will be more likely to pounce on it than Liverpool.

 

Liverpool need to realise they are no better off than the likes of Villa anymore... infact i'd argue that even Villa have a better squad.

 

My impression is that most American sports fans bring different attitudes. With the draft systems, there's a mechanism whereby some equality between the teams is maintained, and any one club would find it difficult to maintain a long period of success, in the manner of Man U, Bayern or Real Madrid. I'm sure that the American fan wants entertainment and hates failure, but they must also expect to go through good times and bad as a natural part of sport's life cycle. Plus there's no danger of relegation, so there isn't quite the same element of panic.

 

For Liverpool, finishing fifth is failure. Many Arsenal fans think the club has failed because they haven't won anything in five years (OMG). There's a big expectation that the owners will dip their hands in their pockets to keep success going.

 

I daresay it's only a question of degree when making the comparison, but the gratitude that may get showered on the new owners is going to disappear fairly quickly if they don't get back in the Champions League. I do wonder whether they're prepared for that.

[sparta]

you think woy is bad?

 

Pondus presents Gruesome rulers throughout the times

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8085/pondus1uke46522265a.jpg

[Cronky]

They could rename them the Liverpool Stealers

 

A genuine LOL at that.

[jdckelly]

This takeover won't work. He has little money and no clue about Liv and the delusions that linger there. Might need a new thread to counter the new magic if it arrives. 

parky vs john henry and how liverpool are doomed?

[GeordieDazzler]

(Full disclosure - I love the Yankees more than most things in life)

 

They have consistently had the second highest payroll in baseball since Henry took over. Let's not make them out to be some magical ballclub that competes with the Yankees on a yearly basis solely on youth development and shrewd trades. They had a solid core in place when Henry took over with arguably the greatest pitcher ever and one of the best hitters in baseball amongst others. NESN, the regional sports network which they own the majority of, had already been created and moved to basic cable which was the beginning of it becoming the cash cow it is today. They are also the only baseball team in New England (5.5 states to themselves), so they naturally exploded once they became successful. Even though Boston is a four-sport city, it has always been a baseball town even in the down years.

 

Their best move was going out on a limb and hiring the youngest General Manager in baseball history. Theo Epstein and his team were ahead of most of the league in accepting and using the new baseball stats (sabermetrics).

 

I'm assuming by "developed stadium" you mean the addition of the Monster Seats, the right field picnic seating, some suites, and standing room. Good ideas for sure, but they were created out of pure necessity due to the age/size of Fenway Park.

 

There was also a completely different expectation when they took over the Red Sox. They hadn't won since 1918; the fans were desperate to beat the Yankees and win the World Series, but they expected something to go wrong (much like Newcastle fans). The Liverpool fans will be expecting trophies from the moment they step in.

 

Don't get me wrong, Henry and his team have been great for the Red Sox. They have done everything they needed to do and more, but taking over at Liverpool will be a different beast entirely.

 

I really don't know much about Baseball but I assume its similar to the NFL franchise wise? i.e. you can't actually be relegated?

 

 

[Exiled in Texas]

No relegation anywhere in US Sports, and you actually get rewarded for coming last by getting first pick at the most promising youngsters in the draft. 2-3 years in the dumpster (and drafting 2-3 stud players) and suddenly you can catapult to the top of the league.

[timeEd32]

(Full disclosure - I love the Yankees more than most things in life)

 

They have consistently had the second highest payroll in baseball since Henry took over. Let's not make them out to be some magical ballclub that competes with the Yankees on a yearly basis solely on youth development and shrewd trades. They had a solid core in place when Henry took over with arguably the greatest pitcher ever and one of the best hitters in baseball amongst others. NESN, the regional sports network which they own the majority of, had already been created and moved to basic cable which was the beginning of it becoming the cash cow it is today. They are also the only baseball team in New England (5.5 states to themselves), so they naturally exploded once they became successful. Even though Boston is a four-sport city, it has always been a baseball town even in the down years.

 

Their best move was going out on a limb and hiring the youngest General Manager in baseball history. Theo Epstein and his team were ahead of most of the league in accepting and using the new baseball stats (sabermetrics).

 

I'm assuming by "developed stadium" you mean the addition of the Monster Seats, the right field picnic seating, some suites, and standing room. Good ideas for sure, but they were created out of pure necessity due to the age/size of Fenway Park.

 

There was also a completely different expectation when they took over the Red Sox. They hadn't won since 1918; the fans were desperate to beat the Yankees and win the World Series, but they expected something to go wrong (much like Newcastle fans). The Liverpool fans will be expecting trophies from the moment they step in.

 

Don't get me wrong, Henry and his team have been great for the Red Sox. They have done everything they needed to do and more, but taking over at Liverpool will be a different beast entirely.

 

I really don't know much about Baseball but I assume its similar to the NFL franchise wise? i.e. you can't actually be relegated?

 

 

 

Correct, no relegation in any American sport. The major difference between the two is the NFL has a salary cap while MLB does not.

[OzzieMandias]

They could rename them the Liverpool Stealers

 

[timeEd32]

No relegation anywhere in US Sports, and you actually get rewarded for coming last by getting first pick at the most promising youngsters in the draft. 2-3 years in the dumpster (and drafting 2-3 stud players) and suddenly you can catapult to the top of the league.

 

This is more true for the NBA, NFL, and NHL. Because there is no salary cap and players generally aren't full developed when drafted (many are taken straight out of high school) it takes longer for MLB teams to see the reward for losing.

[Dokko]

 

You take the bad Yank out,

You put the good Yank in,

In out, in out,

Yank it all about.

You do the Yanky cokey and you burn a flag

That's what its all about.

 

Whoa-o the Yanky Cokey

Whoa-o the Yanky Cokey

Whoa-o the Yanky Cokey

Board bent, bank stretched

Calm calm down

 

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

No relegation anywhere in US Sports, and you actually get rewarded for coming last by getting first pick at the most promising youngsters in the draft. 2-3 years in the dumpster (and drafting 2-3 stud players) and suddenly you can catapult to the top of the league.

 

This is more true for the NBA, NFL, and NHL. Because there is no salary cap and players generally aren't full developed when drafted (many are taken straight out of high school) it takes longer for MLB teams to see the reward for losing.

 

80 years of losing?

[Exiled in Texas]

Well, there are always the Cubs and the Islanders to point to.  Although the Cubs seem do very well from being the loveable loosers.

 

And yes, the MLB cycle is much longer than that of the NFL, NBA and NHL - but it is possible to turn your draft picks into a winning team as long as you don't p*** each pick/prospect away for fools gold.

[Dave]

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

[cp40]

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

 

Gimp is a fan of this idea, not too sure meself.

[Exiled in Texas]

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

 

Draft Picks work in closed leagues (US Franchise leagues) not open ones with promotion/relegation. Because they assume that only teams in the league draft (32 NFL teams drafting or 20 PL teams) but they don't have the concept of a 92 team league spread across 4 or 5 different levels.

 

They also work because the teams drafting the players does not have any interaction in the young player development area. No school boy or youth teams associated to the big clubs. Players come from High School or College teams (NFL,NBA, MLB) or from Junior Hockey (NHL) and they cannot be drafted to a Major League team until they pass a certain age. No schoolboy contracts or academy contracts allowed.

[Parky]

This takeover won't work. He has little money and no clue about Liv and the delusions that linger there. Might need a new thread to counter the new magic if it arrives. 

parky vs john henry and how liverpool are doomed?

 

Ideally a new manager to lay down fire on. Not really much idea who this John Henry is. Might be powerful voodoo.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

 

Draft Picks work in closed leagues (US Franchise leagues) not open ones with promotion/relegation. Because they assume that only teams in the league draft (32 NFL teams drafting or 20 PL teams) but they don't have the concept of a 92 team league spread across 4 or 5 different levels.

 

They also work because the teams drafting the players does not have any interaction in the young player development area. No school boy or youth teams associated to the big clubs. Players come from High School or College teams (NFL,NBA, MLB) or from Junior Hockey (NHL) and they cannot be drafted to a Major League team until they pass a certain age. No schoolboy contracts or academy contracts allowed.

 

 

I love it in US sports, but it'd only really work in US as they have the history and set up to pull it off.

[Parky]

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

 

Draft Picks work in closed leagues (US Franchise leagues) not open ones with promotion/relegation. Because they assume that only teams in the league draft (32 NFL teams drafting or 20 PL teams) but they don't have the concept of a 92 team league spread across 4 or 5 different levels.

 

They also work because the teams drafting the players does not have any interaction in the young player development area. No school boy or youth teams associated to the big clubs. Players come from High School or College teams (NFL,NBA, MLB) or from Junior Hockey (NHL) and they cannot be drafted to a Major League team until they pass a certain age. No schoolboy contracts or academy contracts allowed.

 

 

I love it in US sports, but it'd only really work in US as they have the history and set up to pull it off.

 

The 'sports' in the US are all strange tbf.

[Exiled in Texas]

US sports are all set up as Franchises - not only do they own the team, but also 1/32 of the league. That's they love expansion and adding new teams, because the new team has to buy their way into the league and the current owners all take their shares.

 

I do like the process of teams flowing up/down the leagues through promotion and relegation.  Can you imagine if the Prem League was fixed at the current 20 and there was nothing to stop teams in the bottom like Wolves or Liverpool from dropping, but also no way up for Cardiff or QPR.

[Nobody]

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

Worst team gets the best draft? Then what is the point to even try to win games once you're safe?

[Dave]

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

Worst team gets the best draft? Then what is the point to even try to win games once you're safe?

 

Well that's a reason it wouldn't work with relegation/promotion as mentioned above.

 

I didn't say we should adopt it, just that I kinda like the principle. These are kids btw, not automatically the best players.

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

I

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

 

I honestly read that as daft prick

[Nobody]

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

Worst team gets the best draft? Then what is the point to even try to win games once you're safe?

 

Well that's a reason it wouldn't work with relegation/promotion as mentioned above.

Could easily work; the play-off team gets first pick, the second place finisher in the championship gets second and so on.

It's just a shit system that's harmful to the competitiveness on sports. I've got two friends from Toronto who both supports the Maple Leafs, once it was decided they weren't going to the play offs, they were actually hoping for them to lose.

[jdckelly]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/8047093/Tom-Hicks-vows-to-fight-all-way-as-Boston-Red-Sox-owners-lie-in-wait-to-take-over-Liverpool.html

[Pandamninator]

I've always kind of respected the draft pick concept.

Worst team gets the best draft? Then what is the point to even try to win games once you're safe?

 

In America that threat of losing your job motivates you too keep winning even when your out of play-off contention.  That late season surge that turns a 4-12 season into 7-9 can be the difference between keeping your job as head coah or getting fired and having to become the Oakland Raiders QB coach and rebuild your reputation again.

 

In Europe that would concept would still apply - the difference between 17th place and 12th can be a job saver.

 

Although as outlined above the draft system wouldn't work, but not for that reason.