AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 It's funny how losing possession by launching the ball forward isn't as bad as losing possession by dribbling the ball at a player. In all levels of British football, if a fullback humps the ball down the line he's playing "percentage football" but if an attacking player dribbles at a defender he's taking unnecessary risks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BlacknWhiteArmy Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Ben Arfa/Ba will work and is showing promising signs of working, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 They've started up front together 3 times now and they've haven't shown any signs of developing a good partnership to me, and the lack of goals with them both in those roles speaks volumes. Nowt at Blackburn, nowt at City, and a lucky penalty at OT. If we're going to play Ben Arfa up there we need someone to turn lose balls into possession, and that isn't Ba, never will be. Conversely, you simply can't drop Ba because he's the only natural goalscorer we have, apart from arguably Best. Ba also needs someone to play higher up the park than him to thrive as a goalscorer. Keep perpetuating this 4-4-1-1 nonsense but it'll eventually cost us if we stick with it for too long. Square pegs don't fit in round holes. the way go on you'd think best was a workaholic, he's not. he tends to win a lot in the air which leads to us going longer and higher instead of keeping possession. more of an issue is our old problem of a lack of getting forward from the midfield (rob lee style) to support the striker Agree with you partly. Having a forward who is good in the air is a great excuse to pump it long, but I think that's a) harsh on Best's contribution to the team b) caused more by full-backs who aren't comfortable on the ball Best is actually pretty vital for holding the ball up when the ball is played to his feet, and he encourages our often deep-lying midfielders forward very well. Ben Arfa has been pretty good at transitioning us from defence to attack too - though obviously using a much different style! Ben Arfa and Ba are improving together, and time may prove me wrong, but so far the best I've seen us play this season is with Best as a key component. He's very difficult to pick up for such a big guy and he pulls/stretches defences forward by dropping deep, and creates space for Ba/midfielders around him. The temptation to knock it long is a problem, but can be addressed by transitioning Santon into the side IMO. Simpson is quite adept at knowing when it's good to knock it long IMO. you also have to bare in mind the teams that the ben arfa/ba combo has played against. Good point. Interesting to see how they fare against teams which sit deeper against us. Losing possession will be more costly in such circumstances I would imagine. I think the Ben Arfa/Ba partnership is more likely to lose the ball often since it's a little less measured/controlled than our slower, probing style. will it lose more possession than the longer, in the air style we use with best ? I don't think we do lump it forward most of the time though. In fact, I would say we only begin to do that when we lose confidence, or when we (are presumably instructed by Pardew to) sit on a lead - which is when many of our problems begin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 They've started up front together 3 times now and they've haven't shown any signs of developing a good partnership to me, and the lack of goals with them both in those roles speaks volumes. Nowt at Blackburn, nowt at City, and a lucky penalty at OT. If we're going to play Ben Arfa up there we need someone to turn lose balls into possession, and that isn't Ba, never will be. Conversely, you simply can't drop Ba because he's the only natural goalscorer we have, apart from arguably Best. Ba also needs someone to play higher up the park than him to thrive as a goalscorer. Keep perpetuating this 4-4-1-1 nonsense but it'll eventually cost us if we stick with it for too long. Square pegs don't fit in round holes. the way go on you'd think best was a workaholic, he's not. he tends to win a lot in the air which leads to us going longer and higher instead of keeping possession. more of an issue is our old problem of a lack of getting forward from the midfield (rob lee style) to support the striker Agree with you partly. Having a forward who is good in the air is a great excuse to pump it long, but I think that's a) harsh on Best's contribution to the team b) caused more by full-backs who aren't comfortable on the ball Best is actually pretty vital for holding the ball up when the ball is played to his feet, and he encourages our often deep-lying midfielders forward very well. Ben Arfa has been pretty good at transitioning us from defence to attack too - though obviously using a much different style! Ben Arfa and Ba are improving together, and time may prove me wrong, but so far the best I've seen us play this season is with Best as a key component. He's very difficult to pick up for such a big guy and he pulls/stretches defences forward by dropping deep, and creates space for Ba/midfielders around him. The temptation to knock it long is a problem, but can be addressed by transitioning Santon into the side IMO. Simpson is quite adept at knowing when it's good to knock it long IMO. you also have to bare in mind the teams that the ben arfa/ba combo has played against. Good point. Interesting to see how they fare against teams which sit deeper against us. Losing possession will be more costly in such circumstances I would imagine. I think the Ben Arfa/Ba partnership is more likely to lose the ball often since it's a little less measured/controlled than our slower, probing style. will it lose more possession than the longer, in the air style we use with best ? I don't think we do lump it forward most of the time though. In fact, I would say we only begin to do that when we lose confidence, or when we (are presumably instructed by Pardew to) sit on a lead - which is when many of our problems begin. we don't do it most of the time but we do do it more when best is in the team. it's like saying with ben arfa in the team he dribbles till he loses it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ykmkmdd Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 more of an issue is our old problem of a lack of getting forward from the midfield (rob lee style) to support the striker Agree with that, and think it's something Cabaye will be doing a lot more once he has the security of Tiote back to cover behind him (and when we're not playing the 2 best teams in the country away from home) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Ben Arfa/Ba will work and is showing promising signs of working, imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 With Tiote back to protect us, and a proper fullback so Jonas doesn't have to protect Raylor, we'll be awesome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallihg Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 With Tiote back to protect us, and a proper fullback so Jonas doesn't have to protect Raylor, we'll be awesome. Agree with this, this 4-5-1 system will work so much better with Tiote, the flanks can be used more effeciently, making it more of a 4-3-3 when attacking like the system should be used. Cabaye could also allow himself to come higher on the pitch with Cheick in front of the defense. Can't wait for him to come back, that is until Ashley sells him in january. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 With Tiote back to protect us, and a proper fullback so Jonas doesn't have to protect Raylor, we'll be awesome. Agree with this, this 4-5-1 system will work so much better with Tiote, the flanks can be used more effeciently, making it more of a 4-3-3 when attacking like the system should be used. Cabaye could also allow himself to come higher on the pitch with Cheick in front of the defense. Can't wait for him to come back, that is until Ashley sells him in january. and yet jonas has only really done that at stoke and in our last 2 games. he's been on raylors toes a lot less than he was on jose's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 With Jose he was more tucking in to allow him to overlap IIRC, where with Raylor he has to work very hard to stop the opposition. If Raylor was exposed to as many 1-on-1 situations as Enrique, he would be crucified. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 With Jose he was more tucking in to allow him to overlap IIRC, where with Raylor he has to work very hard to stop the opposition. If Raylor was exposed to as many 1-on-1 situations as Enrique, he would be crucified. i'm sure it had been pointed out how much further forward jonas was especially early season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tunisia Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 hello Congratulations on your match against Manchester. in that game, Ben Arfa played well for 25 minutes at point guard play and played well as a collector for 50 minutes then it was not terrible; a player like him, it gives much each acceleration, so if in addition he must spend his time to retrieve the ball he will not hold the entire match against Manchester but the main thing was there, that is, do the laundry and bring one occasion. I see more Best and Ba in attack and Ben Arfa behind them with Tiote and Cabaye. Best with that is the effort to generate the first revival of the opponent. when Ben Arfa who has all his ability he will focus on the game and when it is blocked dribble having security and Tiote Cabaye. you go up in power, beat Chelsea and you will play in europe. good luck Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I wonder if we'd have worked on a diamond formation more had Ben Arfa not been injured in pre-season. Something like: Tiote Cabaye Gutierrez Ben Arfa Best Ba With perhaps Marveaux providing an alternative to Jonas, and the striker we didn't get as an alternative to Best. Or maybe it's always been 4-4-2 and I'm talking shite. Probably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Full backs aren't strong enough for the above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I wonder if we'd have worked on a diamond formation more had Ben Arfa not been injured in pre-season. Something like: Tiote Cabaye Gutierrez Ben Arfa Best Ba With perhaps Marveaux providing an alternative to Jonas, and the striker we didn't get as an alternative to Best. Or maybe it's always been 4-4-2 and I'm talking s****. Probably. i honestly don't think the plan was to play 2 up front until ben arfa got injured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fumiste Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 When and to who did he say this? Brilliant haha. Dunno about the title, but the confidence thing is such a big part, during the first half at OT i thought we were very good, apart from the first period of the first half, Ah The Sun, just read it. He spoke in front of medias camera....in french... I have seen these words on canal plus...and he just said that they need to get something this season... I think he was speaking about playing the champions league next year... he hasn't mentioned the title... He also said that he works hard on the training ground to be back at his best level... He has already won 6 titles of Ligue 1 champions with Lyon and Marseille....To win one day the premier league shouldn't be curious for him... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I agree that Best should come back in the side, but i think it's harsh to say HBA and Ba haven't improved their link-up play. The move for the penalty was vintage target-man-support-man play. They're not complete aliens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 When and to who did he say this? Brilliant haha. Dunno about the title, but the confidence thing is such a big part, during the first half at OT i thought we were very good, apart from the first period of the first half, Ah The Sun, just read it. He spoke in front of medias camera....in french... I have seen these words on canal plus...and he just said that they need to get something this season... I think he was speaking about playing the champions league next year... he hasn't mentioned the title... He also said that he works hard on the training ground to be back at his best level... He has already won 6 titles of Ligue 1 champions with Lyon and Marseille....To win one day the premier league shouldn't be curious for him... Right. The entire quote by Greg is correct bar the mention of the title which have been created by The Sun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 "I think if we gain in confidence, we can go and get the title. "I think the only thing that makes a difference is the confidence. We really have good footballers here. If we carry on like this, then we can do something." "I think if we gain in confidence, we can go very far I think the only thing that makes a difference is the confidence. We really have good footballers here. If we carry on like this, then we can do something" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
teohgk Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Mackem will love this Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 hello Congratulations on your match against Manchester. in that game, Ben Arfa played well for 25 minutes at point guard play and played well as a collector for 50 minutes then it was not terrible; a player like him, it gives much each acceleration, so if in addition he must spend his time to retrieve the ball he will not hold the entire match against Manchester but the main thing was there, that is, do the laundry and bring one occasion. I see more Best and Ba in attack and Ben Arfa behind them with Tiote and Cabaye. Best with that is the effort to generate the first revival of the opponent. when Ben Arfa who has all his ability he will focus on the game and when it is blocked dribble having security and Tiote Cabaye. you go up in power, beat Chelsea and you will play in europe. good luck I thought the kits looked very clean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I think HBA should be left to concentrate on football, he's too talented for doing the laundry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hatem garrincha Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I think HBA should be left to concentrate on football, he's too talented for doing the laundry. Agree. He should not put a big part of his energy to track back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 I thought he played well for the first third of the game. Some good decision making and also a better sense of working with the players around him. I was horribly disappointed with his reaction to the Rooney incident and it seemed that it affected his game more than Rooney's. To my eye, Colo handled it perfectly. Rooney appeared to be trying to intimidate Colo and get under his skin. Colo looked at him with a "meh" attitude and shook his hand, essentially ignoring him as though he were not worth the time of day. The ref was going to give Rooney a once over and likely say something along the lines of "one more incident and you'll be in my book" which seems very common among English ref's. Instead HBA sprints 35 yards and loses his mind, which means the ref turns his attention to HBA and books him rather than maintaining focus on Rooney. Net affect was that HBA's game was affected as he was walking the line instead of Rooney. Hopefully, he will mature a little and get used to the "ball's to the wall" style of the English game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Love the optimism from the lad Can't wait till he is fluent in Geordie and he can say "we ganna win da leaggue like" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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