cp40 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I think the previous argument about blackburn, and derby - the benifactors were lifelong fans. ten years ago the big money from abroad hadnt even heard of chelsea or man city. Yep. Jack Walker did what I guess most fans would like to do. Bankroll his local club to a league title. Incredible really in four years they went from Division 2 dross to league champions. Theirs was certainly the most meteoric rise as a small Lancashire town who had no real history of being a top side. In a sense Chelsea and Man City have always been big clubs in terms of support and history. It's always slightly annoyed me though, how Blackburn managed to just claw their way to the top whereas we just missed out. Very fine margin too, considering they lost on the last day yet still won the league as Man Utd couldn't beat West Ham. I always thought that the difference with Blackburn was that in Flowers they had a top class keeper and in Colin Hendry, a top defensive centre back. Colin Hendry reckons we tried to buy him but Blackburn simply wouldn't sell him. I agree completely him and Flowers in our defence and we'd have won it by a canter. we only lost it by a Canter- na Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Some interesting points HTT (as always tbf) but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think most would recognise that Blackburn bought the league but nowadays it's frankly a case of if you can't beat them, join them. I heard some comments in Saturday that our fans wouldn't like it if we had a Man City revolution. If it were to happen though, I'm sure the fans would quickly be on board. As you say, what's the alternative? Hope every year that we might just sneak into the Europa League, a terrible competition with a host of shitty teams and then the added farce of Champions League drop outs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Blackburn were not financed by Jack Walker They were and it was blatant. Blackburn's home gates and the sky deal of the time gets nowhere near the 25m that team cost to build in just a couple of years, otherwise everyone else would have done it and broken the transfer record like they did twice, and the players wouldn't have chosen to go to Blackburn of all places. I hate Man Utd but I would never look down on their success or begrudge them their success. They are the model club to be honest. Every penny spent by that club comes from its own coffers and not some rich person or rich people. Money generated through the turnstiles, through merchandise, TV deals, sponsorship and above all else through success, success built on the excellence of their manager in building winning sides. Man Utd are a commercial club of course and are supported by many glory seekers but fundamentally as a football club they are the shining light of our game in that they lead the way and show the way to success both on the pitch and off it in a commercial way without compromising their history and tradition. Their fans too, their proper fans, are first class, especially away from home. Very knowledgeable and respectful. The 'model football club' don't even consider themselves a football club, that's why they removed the words from their badge saying they might 'alienate people from the brand who don't like football'. Their self interest led to the removal of splitting home gates, the creation of the Premier League, the creation of the champions league and the push for commercialism that have damaged the tradition and history of the game far more permanently than clubs spending loads of money temporarily. Even their own fans admit their support has been a joke for a long time thanks to the way the club markets itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 As a side point, I walked past Old Trafford today. I didn't see one person who didn't a) look like a tourist from Asia and b) didn't have a Megastore bag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Hope every year that we might just sneak into the Europa League, a terrible competition with a host of shitty teams and then the added farce of Champions League drop outs. The Europa League is probably my favourite competition from the last 16 on. All the nobheads who don't want to be in it have been knocked out, plenty of big clubs and good teams, different teams every year from all sorts of countries, anyone can win it, competitive games and ultra defensive football is rare. Exactly what a competition should be in comparison to the closed shops of the Champions League and domestic leagues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnbull2000 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 As you say, what's the alternative? Hope every year that we might just sneak into the Europa League, a terrible competition with a host of shitty teams and then the added farce of Champions League drop outs. Absolutely. The expanded Champion's League has pretty killed off any prestige in what lower ranked clubs can hope to achieve. 10 years ago, I would have been excited at the prospect of finishing fifth and competing the UEFA Cup. Now though, the re-branded second tier of European football has been devalued beyond recognition. If we somehow manage to finish fifth in the next few years, I'd rather we put out the kids in the Europa League and focus the first team squad on fourth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Some interesting points HTT (as always tbf) but we'll have to agree to disagree. I think most would recognise that Blackburn bought the league but nowadays it's frankly a case of if you can't beat them, join them. I heard some comments in Saturday that our fans wouldn't like it if we had a Man City revolution. If it were to happen though, I'm sure the fans would quickly be on board. As you say, what's the alternative? Hope every year that we might just sneak into the Europa League, a terrible competition with a host of shitty teams and then the added farce of Champions League drop outs. Its sad isn't it? UEFA are big culprits in all of this. The UEFA Cup used to be a valued competition, even the cup winners cup, now it is the CL or nothing at all. This has resulted in domestic cups becoming poor competitions too. Clubs used to view winning the league cup as something special because it meant UEFA Cup football, a competition that used to contain the runners up of leagues. Today its made up of the odd name (their reserves) and err, fucking Stoke. Back to Blackburn, Jack Walker may have bank-rolled the club into the top-flight but once the Premier League took off, I genuinly believe they become self financed and I think Blackburn fans could back that up too. The economics of it all point to no need for a sugar daddy. I use NUFC as an example. We went from generating something like a 4m income to generating 16m in one year. I guess our annual wage bill during that year was less than 50% of that figure and we hardly spent big in our debut PL season. I think the most we spent was 2.5m on Fox and later 2.7m on Peacock. Even then, payments were staggered rather than paid up front. In short we could afford it, every club could. Blackburn could afford to buy Shearer, they could afford to buy Batty, Sutton and whoever else they wanted because money was pouring in from Sky, from fans at the turnstiles and club shops, and of course from sponsors. Tens of millions a year which was a huge mark up on the 2-3m a year the likes of us and Blackburn would make prior to the Sky/PL boom The actual Shearer deal was mostly financed by Newcastle Breweries but to the layman we were being bankrolled by Sir John Hall and attempting to by the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The Europa Cup may eventually be a decent competition in the latter knock out rounds but the group stage cack has just put extra pressure on squads. Fans aren't too bothered about it either, as our attendances in 2006/7 showed. It's a huge effort to get to the business end and I'd question whether it's really worth it. I still maintain that the Champions Leage drop out element is beyond stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnbull2000 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I still maintain that the Champions Leage drop out element is beyond stupid. I thought UEFA pledged to end this travesty a few years ago?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The Europa Cup may eventually be a decent competition in the latter knock out rounds but the group stage cack has just out extra pressure on squads. Fans aren't too bothered about it either, as our attendnces in 2006/7 showed. It's a huge effort to get to the business end and I'd question whether it's really worth it. I still maintain that the Champions Leage drop out element is beyond stupid. agreed- id rather not qualify unless its champions league. maybe they should expand that to 5 clubs and shut the europa down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I still maintain that the Champions Leage drop out element is beyond stupid. It is, just like CL having down to 4th place teams in it. G14 safety nets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The Europa Cup may eventually be a decent competition in the latter knock out rounds but the group stage cack has just put extra pressure on squads. Fans aren't too bothered about it either, as our attendances in 2006/7 showed. It's a huge effort to get to the business end and I'd question whether it's really worth it. I still maintain that the Champions Leage drop out element is beyond stupid. It won't get any better until TV revenues drop for it, only thing UEFA give a fuck about unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'll be glad if we are in the Europa League as it will represent massive progress on the field and I'll enjoy travelling abroad. I wi t particularly relish the added strain though it would put on the playing squad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wacko Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I'll be glad if we are in the Europa League as it will represent massive progress on the field and I'll enjoy travelling abroad. I wi t particularly relish the added strain though it would put on the playing squad. Double-edged sword, though. Now with the group stages, it's effectively as demanding as the CL on your squad, but with none of the money or cachet. Now you need a much better squad to take the Europa League seriously and not lose a lot of ground in the league. IMO, if they're going to continue with two group-stage-based competitions, they should do away with the x-places-per-country rules in the CL, and assign both CL and EL places by team rankings. That way, there'll be fewer mismatches in both competitions. Every year a bunch of national champions get dumped into the CL 1st qualifying round with about zero chance of ever reaching the group stage (it's only happened once, I think). If you've not been in a European competition recently, the deck is really stacked against you. Much fairer to put you in a competition where you stand a decent chance of winning a few games and improving your UEFA ranking. Also, EL winner should get automatic CL place the following season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I still maintain that the Champions Leage drop out element is beyond stupid. It is, just like CL having down to 4th place teams in it. G14 safety nets. Yep, the whole thing is a farce really. IMO the CL should only be the top 2 max, and even that is too many. Still, easy to argue against it when you haven't participated for so long! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Vinkent Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I'm loving how their "We'll score when we want" chant doesn't seem to be working in Europe at the minute.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I'm loving how their "We'll score when we want" chant doesn't seem to be working in Europe at the minute.... They obviously didn't want to qualify for the next round man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
womblemaster Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 arent our reserves good enough to beat eastern euro teams in grp stage?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 arent our reserves good enough to beat eastern euro teams in grp stage?? If Christmas Tree was manager , then yes it would be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Their fans have let off firecrackers in the last 2 away games now (Liverpool,Arsenal). Copying bastards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Their fans have let off firecrackers in the last 2 away games now (Liverpool,Arsenal). Copying bastards. Ironic, given that they went off it when someone hoyed one from our end. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Also, EL winner should get automatic CL place the following season. Agree with this. Also agree with whoever said the FA Cup winner should get a CL spot. If those winners aren't the PL champion or runner-up then they take away 4th (and 3rd if EL winner is from England). Would, at worst, give clubs more incentive those competitions and, at best, spread the wealth a little bit more than it does now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtype Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Also, EL winner should get automatic CL place the following season. Agree with this. Also agree with whoever said the FA Cup winner should get a CL spot. If those winners aren't the PL champion or runner-up then they take away 4th (and 3rd if EL winner is from England). Would, at worst, give clubs more incentive those competitions and, at best, spread the wealth a little bit more than it does now. You just know that we'd finish fourth the year that came into effect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Well, hell, we finished second the first season that second place got a CL spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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