Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 We can play football, we have the players. Away to Liverpool the other night for about a 10 minute spell they couldn't get the ball off of us, our lot making something like 35 passes in succession. Good post by Prophet by the way, a more measured and constructive analysis of things than my own critical and angry analysis. Although I still believe unless Pardew suddenly gains some tactical nous and starts picking the right team, we are going to continue in the same vein we have been playing since the Chelsea defeat, rather than the form we were in prior to that. since that spell of games at citeh,man utd and chelsea, pardew does seem to be running scared in his selections and tactics. Aye and it seems to have had a really adverse effect on the players. Cabaye looks lost and Jonas who was on form leading upto those games also looks a shadow of himself and I've noticed Krul seems to simply be launching it a lot these days where as he used to play it out to Colo or whoever wanted it at the back. He needs to get the team right against Man Utd and send them out to win, to play football. Release the shackles a bit. Having said that I'm sure that's how we approached the Chelsea game and look what happened there. Regardless, it is better to try and win and to play football to win rather than to contain. Do so and more often than not you'll win as we were doing when we attacked sides and played with some free will if you like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 We can play football, we have the players. Away to Liverpool the other night for about a 10 minute spell they couldn't get the ball off of us, our lot making something like 35 passes in succession. Good post by Prophet by the way, a more measured and constructive analysis of things than my own critical and angry analysis. Although I still believe unless Pardew suddenly gains some tactical nous and starts picking the right team, we are going to continue in the same vein we have been playing since the Chelsea defeat, rather than the form we were in prior to that. Agree with this, even though our wingers and fullbacks (except Santon) have the habit of loosing possession way too easily, their movement and end product is poor generally as well. But we certainly would still do better than we are now with these players and some good coaching. I remember us playing really well against ManU in the 1st half (for a decent period) as well, spraying the ball around very nicely. That's what we should aim for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 We can play football, we have the players. Away to Liverpool the other night for about a 10 minute spell they couldn't get the ball off of us, our lot making something like 35 passes in succession. Good post by Prophet by the way, a more measured and constructive analysis of things than my own critical and angry analysis. Although I still believe unless Pardew suddenly gains some tactical nous and starts picking the right team, we are going to continue in the same vein we have been playing since the Chelsea defeat, rather than the form we were in prior to that. think it was 38 consecutive passes, not sure we've done that at any other time this season. maybe villa away. i'm happy with where we are in the league, and the season has gone pretty much as i expected it to - i thought we;d be around the top 4 due to our easier start, and thought we'd then settle down to a more natural position after tough fixtures. but the big disappointment is how pardew's wimped out of trying to change the way we play. you can't just ask players to play it on the deck, use intelligent movement, not be rigidly in banks of four,use one touch passing and so on. especially after they've been hitting it long for months. that sort of football only comes after you obsessively work on it at the training ground week in week out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 We can play football, we have the players. Away to Liverpool the other night for about a 10 minute spell they couldn't get the ball off of us, our lot making something like 35 passes in succession. Good post by Prophet by the way, a more measured and constructive analysis of things than my own critical and angry analysis. Although I still believe unless Pardew suddenly gains some tactical nous and starts picking the right team, we are going to continue in the same vein we have been playing since the Chelsea defeat, rather than the form we were in prior to that. think it was 38 consecutive passes, not sure we've done that at any other time this season. maybe villa away. i'm happy with where we are in the league, and the season has gone pretty much as i expected it to - i thought we;d be around the top 4 due to our easier start, and thought we'd then settle down to a more natural position after tough fixtures. but the big disappointment is how pardew's wimped out of trying to change the way we play. you can't just ask players to play it on the deck, use intelligent movement, not be rigidly in banks of four,use one touch passing and so on. especially after they've been hitting it long for months. that sort of football only comes after you obsessively work on it at the training ground week in week out. I'm happy where we are in the league too and if I was asked pre-season if I'd accept 7th position I would have snapped their hands off but as the season has wore on it has become quite clear that A) we have a really decent side with the nucleaus of a really good side, B) that the opposition around us are indifferent this season making it perhaps easier for a team likes ours to really push on than in previous seasons and that C) the fact we are 7th and not too far off the top 6 should tell us that is where we should be competing for. But... Pardew's inability to pick the right side, use the correct tactics and make better use of his subs is now beginning to really effect the side and certain individuals in a really negative aspect to the point where all the good work done and all that is in our favour, will be lost, as we fall and fall away. I blame our slide on Pardew and if we do not at least finish 7th he for me will have failed massively because we could finish 6th or even 5th the way the season is going. Look at Liverpool who beat us 3-1. I strongly believe of the two sides out on that pitch when the ref blew for kick-off, man to man, we were the better 11. It is only Suarez and their depth that seperates them and us but we were f***ing awful against them, a side who were pretty f***ing dire themselves. If Pardew picked the right side and deployed better tactics we would have beaten them and what would that have done for our season? We would have overtaken them in the table for a start. Now we must start again. This is Pardew's big test against Man Utd. He needs a win and a performance and then kick on from there. A defeat and a heavy one at that, will put an end to our thus far decentish season, in my opinion anyway. I feel the players stepped up a level or two during our unbeaten spell now Pardew needs to step it up a level or two. If he doesn't now, he never will! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 If we want europe this season we have to finish 6th or get to the FA cup final. That's too much for us this season imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 If we want europe this season we have to finish 6th or get to the FA cup final. That's too much for us this season imo. Or 7th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 If we want europe this season we have to finish 6th or get to the FA cup final. That's too much for us this season imo. 7th has typically been enough to qualify in previous years other than last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Not 7th this season because a team from the championship is going to be in the carling cup final. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Not 7th this season because a team from the championship is going to be in the carling cup final. So? You don't get a European place for being a loser in that final, only the FA Cup final. Obviously if one of them wins it, it's 6th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Whoever they play will be a team that will 100% be in europe so the place will go to the championship side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Not in the Carling Cup, that rule only stands for FA Cup. They need to win it to qualify. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 We can play football, we have the players. Away to Liverpool the other night for about a 10 minute spell they couldn't get the ball off of us, our lot making something like 35 passes in succession. Good post by Prophet by the way, a more measured and constructive analysis of things than my own critical and angry analysis. Although I still believe unless Pardew suddenly gains some tactical nous and starts picking the right team, we are going to continue in the same vein we have been playing since the Chelsea defeat, rather than the form we were in prior to that. think it was 38 consecutive passes, not sure we've done that at any other time this season. maybe villa away. i'm happy with where we are in the league, and the season has gone pretty much as i expected it to - i thought we;d be around the top 4 due to our easier start, and thought we'd then settle down to a more natural position after tough fixtures. but the big disappointment is how pardew's wimped out of trying to change the way we play. you can't just ask players to play it on the deck, use intelligent movement, not be rigidly in banks of four,use one touch passing and so on. especially after they've been hitting it long for months. that sort of football only comes after you obsessively work on it at the training ground week in week out. You can see the work Pardew puts in on the defensive side, we've generally defended well as a team this season. Where I am not convinced is that we work on the passing side of it "week in week out". For most of this season the team I've been watching has generally had a large gap between the forwards and midfield. I think the goals we score probably reflect this with a lot of them coming from long balls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 We can play football, we have the players. Away to Liverpool the other night for about a 10 minute spell they couldn't get the ball off of us, our lot making something like 35 passes in succession. Good post by Prophet by the way, a more measured and constructive analysis of things than my own critical and angry analysis. Although I still believe unless Pardew suddenly gains some tactical nous and starts picking the right team, we are going to continue in the same vein we have been playing since the Chelsea defeat, rather than the form we were in prior to that. since that spell of games at citeh,man utd and chelsea, pardew does seem to be running scared in his selections and tactics. Most definitely. Our lack of fluidity when going forward is such a concern for me at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 Delighted with where we are atm. To finish the first half of the season in 7th with 30 points is excellent. The slump in results and performances is getting quite alarming though. Don't want Pardew out and I'm not pissing my pants just yet but I want him to solve the obvious problems with the starting XI. If that means swallowing his pride and changing personnel or formation then he needs to do it. Obertan is offering virtually nothing and he's still getting a game which is worrying. Needs to freshen things up asap because we've hit a wall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Many reasons for not wanting Pardew out, and one of the most significant struck me just earlier today. Steve Bruce is currently unemployed. Hope he uses this Obertan injury to good effect, but it's a slender hope. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Some good posts on the last couple of pages: Prophet, HTT, Beren, jonnypd, midds - although I'm not sure where this "Pardew out" talk has come from?! I know it's an old cliche, but given the concern about our attacking ability at the moment, would people be happier if we put on a good overall performance and lost 4-3 (couple of defensive mistakes which can be eliminated/bad fortune) or have us pick up a point in a dull 0-0? Man Utd have quite a few defensive players out, so there's a great opportunity to "unleash the shackles" as one poster put it, is a boost to our attacking confidence ahead of a big month worth sacrificing a point? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JS Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Some good posts on the last couple of pages: Prophet, HTT, Beren, jonnypd, midds - although I'm not sure where this "Pardew out" talk has come from?! I know it's an old cliche, but given the concern about our attacking ability at the moment, would people be happier if we put on a good overall performance and lost 4-3 (couple of defensive mistakes which can be eliminated/bad fortune) or have us pick up a point in a dull 0-0? Man Utd have quite a few defensive players out, so there's a great opportunity to "unleash the shackles" as one poster put it, is a boost to our attacking confidence ahead of a big month worth sacrificing a point? I think most supporters of probably at least 15 teams in the PL would take a point against Man U, regardless of their injured players, suspensions, shit game to watch, etc Also tend to think that a lot of our supporters are getting tired of seeing Obertan playing like a headless chicken most weeks to the point that even a younger lad (Sammy) may just producing something 'different' or that there would be a chance he/another could prove themselves and step up.. As you point out though, heading into a very bleak month or 2 with an already short squad, with arguably 2 of our key players also gone, celebrating injuries is ridiculous. Even if Pardew dropped Obertan now do people assume we will play better? We rarely use our wide players to their best abilities as it is (hoof it to Ba and benching Ben Arfa are probably 2 examples I can think of) and having Pardews 'second or third choices' out wide wouldn't change a thing imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 We can play football, we have the players. Away to Liverpool the other night for about a 10 minute spell they couldn't get the ball off of us, our lot making something like 35 passes in succession. Good post by Prophet by the way, a more measured and constructive analysis of things than my own critical and angry analysis. Although I still believe unless Pardew suddenly gains some tactical nous and starts picking the right team, we are going to continue in the same vein we have been playing since the Chelsea defeat, rather than the form we were in prior to that. since that spell of games at citeh,man utd and chelsea, pardew does seem to be running scared in his selections and tactics. Most definitely. Our lack of fluidity when going forward is such a concern for me at the moment. we were never that fluid at our best this season, but lately i've seen more off the ball movement in a game of subbuteo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 There's a bit of history re-writing going on there like. Earlier on in the season we set up to exploit teams weaknesses as well as nullify their strengths, we've seemingly restored to solely attempting the latter now. We played some good stuff in a lot of those games too. I would say that's true, but only in disparate patches. A lot of the early games we had really good spells and capitalised on them well, but watch that first half vs Fulham. Watch the second half vs Wolves. Sunderland first half. Wigan first half. We won all those games, so it wasn't addressed (or even allowed to be recognised by the "but we're still unbeaten therefore you can't complain" sections). I understand you can't exploit opposition weaknesses all game long, and that if you have a lead there's a time to not go as gung-ho going forward - but just in terms of general possession - we were outplayed in games we won for significant stretches of those matches IMO. a bit harsh as in those spells in those games we weren't second best. many games seem even till one team asserts it's authority later on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 We can play football, we have the players. Away to Liverpool the other night for about a 10 minute spell they couldn't get the ball off of us, our lot making something like 35 passes in succession. Good post by Prophet by the way, a more measured and constructive analysis of things than my own critical and angry analysis. Although I still believe unless Pardew suddenly gains some tactical nous and starts picking the right team, we are going to continue in the same vein we have been playing since the Chelsea defeat, rather than the form we were in prior to that. since that spell of games at citeh,man utd and chelsea, pardew does seem to be running scared in his selections and tactics. Most definitely. Our lack of fluidity when going forward is such a concern for me at the moment. we were never that fluid at our best this season, but lately i've seen more off the ball movement in a game of subbuteo. I know we weren't, our early success was also based on how organised and rigid we were. However we looked more of a threat going forward than we do now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 We can play football, we have the players. Away to Liverpool the other night for about a 10 minute spell they couldn't get the ball off of us, our lot making something like 35 passes in succession. Good post by Prophet by the way, a more measured and constructive analysis of things than my own critical and angry analysis. Although I still believe unless Pardew suddenly gains some tactical nous and starts picking the right team, we are going to continue in the same vein we have been playing since the Chelsea defeat, rather than the form we were in prior to that. since that spell of games at citeh,man utd and chelsea, pardew does seem to be running scared in his selections and tactics. Most definitely. Our lack of fluidity when going forward is such a concern for me at the moment. we were never that fluid at our best this season, but lately i've seen more off the ball movement in a game of subbuteo. I know we weren't, our early success was also based on how organised and rigid we were. However we looked more of a threat going forward than we do now. thats what we need for success, organised and rigid when they have the ball, fluid and mobile when we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Are you trying to teach me to suck eggs madras? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 make sure they're fresh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vainsharpdad Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 *If* Lee Ryder is right even (broken clocks are right twice a day) and *if* Pardew thinks Sameobi can do a better job on the wing than Ben Arfa, then he will have displayed that his judgement is flawed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VaVaVoom Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 *If* Lee Ryder is right even (broken clocks are right twice a day) and *if* Pardew thinks Sameobi can do a better job on the wing than Ben Arfa, then he will have displayed that his judgement is flawed. Massively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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