Alan Pardew

[Jayson]

These are all long-term issues which seem to go over the top of his head. This strikes me as a much better gauge of his abilities than isolated matches. I try to look at progression and development. At the start of the season, I remember saying I'd be interested to see how he learns and adapts.. and that there's room for improvement for both the team and the manager. He hasn't shown much improvement, if I'm honest. If he'd shown even medium-sized strides in the right direction I'd be edified that the work-in-progress is a worthwhile exercise. I know great teams don't happen overnight and there is great merit in having tenures the length of Wenger, Ferguson etc... but not if you've backed Steve Bruce, McLeish.

 

Patience with a manager, in and of itself, doesn't guarantee any decent yield for your time! I'm not saying Pardew is as bad as them, but I hope you see what I mean. It's now March, and Pardew is still alienating our best creative player while we continue to hoof from Krul to Cisse for a solid 45 minutes. That's daft in my book. We had to hit our season nadir today at half-time before he brought on HBA. As I said, that's desperation - not growth.

 

We clearly had improved massively defensively over last season though. Before Saylors injury only Spurs & Manchester city managed to score more than one goal against us in 13 games, thats a ridiculous record. They both needed penalties to achieve that. Only chelsea managed it with 2 goals in the last minute after we lost Colo on 25 mins & Saylor at the end also.

 

Pardew earns no faith achieving that? Because thats a crazy record with our defence.

 

Giving a chance to youngsters like Vuckic, Abeid etc isnt an improvement in terms of ideas? Or trying Jonas in the middle which actually worked nicely for a period wasnt a sign hes willing to think outside the box? Hes done more for our setup defensively than in terms of creating flowing football sure, but as i say look at the defense hes working with. If he believes we'll score regardless as we had been, does it not make sense to sway parts of the side toward covering your weakest link? A balanced side is more stable than one which relies on one or the other isnt it?

 

[Hughesy]

These are all long-term issues which seem to go over the top of his head. This strikes me as a much better gauge of his abilities than isolated matches. I try to look at progression and development. At the start of the season, I remember saying I'd be interested to see how he learns and adapts.. and that there's room for improvement for both the team and the manager. He hasn't shown much improvement, if I'm honest. If he'd shown even medium-sized strides in the right direction I'd be edified that the work-in-progress is a worthwhile exercise. I know great teams don't happen overnight and there is great merit in having tenures the length of Wenger, Ferguson etc... but not if you've backed Steve Bruce, McLeish.

 

Patience with a manager, in and of itself, doesn't guarantee any decent yield for your time! I'm not saying Pardew is as bad as them, but I hope you see what I mean. It's now March, and Pardew is still alienating our best creative player while we continue to hoof from Krul to Cisse for a solid 45 minutes. That's daft in my book. We had to hit our season nadir today at half-time before he brought on HBA. As I said, that's desperation - not growth.

 

We clearly had improved massively defensively over last season though. Before Saylors injury only Spurs & Manchester city managed to score more than one goal against us in 13 games, thats a ridiculous record. They both needed penalties to achieve that. Only chelsea managed it with 2 goals in the last minute after we lost Colo on 25 mins & Saylor at the end also.

 

Pardew earns no faith achieving that? Because thats a crazy record with our defence.

 

Giving a chance to youngsters like Vuckic, Abeid etc isnt an improvement in terms of ideas? Or trying Jonas in the middle which actually worked nicely for a period wasnt a sign hes willing to think outside the box? Hes done more for our setup defensively than in terms of creating flowing football sure, but as i say look at the defense hes working with. If he believes we'll score regardless as we had been, does it not make sense to sway parts of the side toward covering your weakest link? A balanced side is more stable than one which relies on one or the other isnt it?

 

 

There'll be some reason why those positives don't count.  Just give it a few mins..

[Beren]

There'll be some reason why those positives don't count.  Just give it a few mins..

 

Stunning contribution You find "time/inclination" to make the most pithy posts.

 

Jayson:

 

Our defensive record was fantastic. I can't/won't deny that. In fact I was very proud of how he got us defending - and he does deserve credit for that - it was brave and organised for the most . I would question why we were scrapping, camped in our own half against some of the lesser sides though. As for the defensive work itself, it's not like teams weren't creating any chances. Krul was having to pull out strings of magnificent stops, we were making clearances on the line etc - so it's not as clear cut as the 'goals conceded' column suggests.

 

Tbf there is a strong argument to suggest that if Saylor hadn't been injured, our defensive record since that Man City game wouldn't be atrocious. MA/DL holds the purse strings/negotiated with Watford - not Pardew. So I don't blame him for not replacing Saylor - but even defensively, all I ask for is balance when assessing how well he has done. So again I would counter-point with freezing our Kadar [for Perch ffs] near the Norwich game and his intransigence to modify our high-line off-side trap against fast front lines (WBA, Fulham, Spurs). Stuff that is basic and apparent to even an average fan, let alone a top-flight professional manager.

 

Using fringe players for a game or two (Abeid and Vuckic are the names you mentioned) doesn't really mean anything to me tbh Sorry. He dropped them both pretty quickly. Okay, he tried them, but it's not like he saw a vision/function they could perform in the first team or even the regular first team squad - and stuck with tweaking and modifying to work something out for them. It's neither a plus or a negative against him.

 

As for believing we'll score regardless - I fucking hope not. Ba shouldn't have to have the chance conversion rate he's had for most of this season. Same goes for Cisse, going forward. We need to be making more chances - because as is already showing - we can't rely on ourselves to be as clinical as we have been nor the opposition to be so profligate.

[Hughesy]

Was unaware that each and every post had to make a stunning contribution.

[Interpolic]

Fuck's sake.

[Dokko]

Was unaware that each and every post had to make a stunning contribution.

 

Just One will do.

[Hughesy]

Was unaware that each and every post had to make a stunning contribution.

 

Just One will do.

 

That hurts...

[Guest firetotheworks]

Hopefully the fact that all of the things that have been wrong with us over the past month or so were so abundantly clear within one match, and even from one half to the next make Pardew realise that we can actually be trusted to play attacking football on the ground. We have Cabaye and Tiote in midfield who are both very capable and Ben Arfa who would slot into it perfectly.

 

1st half: 1-0 down and absolutely nothing of note attacking wise due to playing long ball

 

2nd half: 1-1, should have been 2-1 with another definite penalty and another maybe. Numerous chances, passing the ball around with 2 natural, crafty wingers and tons of possession.

 

If you can't see that, you're surely tainted or brainwashed by what you see outside of when it ACTUALLY MATTERS, in matches.

[Neil]

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

At the end of the day, what the hell are you smoking?

 

[Shak]

Got lucky yesterday, a loss could have been a turning point for him, especially after sending out the exact same team that looked so shit against Wolves.

 

Really not helping himself in a lot of ways at the moment.

[HawK]

HawK, that's insanely negative man. We've made some good progress since relegation, making the right signings and signing existing players to long contracts, our best league position for ages, and you post something like that? Way over the top IMO.

 

I agree Ashley might never hire a manager who would challenge him, but that's just something we have to deal with and all the more reason to back Pardew.

I think some of these people forget that we were sitting a league below in dire straits only two years ago and were sitting in the bottom half when the man took the helm. They forget that he had to sell his most high profile player two or three weeks into his career here. Anything above seventh for this club, is a great result and it is ridiculous to act like Pardew had no part in this. I am not a supporter of some of the negative football he has employed, but at the same time, he completely changed the formation earlier in the season to give Ben Arfa room to operate. I think he is learning and adjusting and it is good to give him time in which to do so.

 

As this is a thread on Pardew, I won't go into the fact that our progress in no circumstances whatsoever should be measured by how far we've come since we got promoted back. It should be measured from when MA took over, almost 5 years ago in May 2007. Our progress under Pardew is better than Hughton, that I won't argue with, less romantic performances and results but a more pragmatic and effective way to grind out results. But the evidence on the pitch in the previous few months shows a manager who doesn't grasp the fundamentals, today a prime example.

 

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

At the end of the day, what the hell are you smoking?

 

 

You are quite daft if you do not think players like Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba, Coloccini and Krul wouldn't be pushing for starting births for most of the top 4-5 clubs in the country, bar City. To argue that every player has to be of this class, is pedantic. You could pick apart any of those sides for weaknesses in certain positions. The point I was making, is with players of this ilk, a better manager than Pardew would be achieving more, because it's not for want of a better starting XI.

[oldtype]

Our players aren't that good.

[SEMTEX]

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

At the end of the day, what the hell are you smoking?

 

 

You are quite daft if you do not think players like Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba, Coloccini and Krul wouldn't be pushing for starting births for most of the top 4-5 clubs in the country, bar City. To argue that every player has to be of this class, is pedantic. You could pick apart any of those sides for weaknesses in certain positions. The point I was making, is with players of this ilk, a better manager than Pardew would be achieving more, because it's not for want of a better starting XI.

 

All of the players you've listed would be fringe players in Manchester. Questionnable with Tottenham/Arsenal/Chelsea, especially with Chelsea in their current state. Whilst these players could prove to be good enough for the top 4 in the long run, they're not there yet, or at least they haven't proven they're good enough for a period longer than 6 months.

 

The Geordie stereotype is a lot more real than I had previously imagined. It's upsetting.

[Shak]

Colo could start for any team bar City maybe IMO.

 

Krul, Tiote and Ba are good enough to play in a top four side too IMO, though whether they'd get a game in Manchester/Arsenal/Spurs/Chelsea is certainly debatable.

 

Cabaye, Cisse and Ben Arfa it's too early to say IMO.

 

Our problem is that we have too many shit players, not that we don't have enough good ones. Simpson, Williamson, Raylor, Obertan, Shola should be squad players for a mid table club at best, that we're up in the top six with these lads playing significant roles is commendable.

[S.S.R.]

http://i42.tinypic.com/1zvfi8o.jpg

[themanupstairs]

http://i42.tinypic.com/1zvfi8o.jpg

 

 

 

any way to make MON's mouth rumble a la Tiote?

[S.S.R.]

erm... ...ask that Kasper fellow.

[EthiGeordie]

this past two games we lost four points to the minumum we should have got 4 the road a head is diffucult....

[Si]

At the end of the day, if you were to compare our players, man to man, with the best of the PL, we should and would be up there. The only reason we're not is due to the manager. One thing's for sure as far as I'm concerned, if Bobby were here, Hatem would have played the full 90 minutes of every single game he's been fit and available for. He's meeting Ashley's criteria, so he's safe for now. But there's no reason to accept where we are, we should be aiming for better with what we have. Whether there is a manager available to do this right now, is another question entirely. It doesn't mean I don't have the right to pass opinion on the fact that Pardew is clearly out of his depth at this level.

 

At the end of the day, what the hell are you smoking?

 

 

You are quite daft if you do not think players like Cabaye, Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba, Coloccini and Krul wouldn't be pushing for starting births for most of the top 4-5 clubs in the country, bar City. To argue that every player has to be of this class, is pedantic. You could pick apart any of those sides for weaknesses in certain positions. The point I was making, is with players of this ilk, a better manager than Pardew would be achieving more, because it's not for want of a better starting XI.

 

All of the players you've listed would be fringe players in Manchester. Questionnable with Tottenham/Arsenal/Chelsea, especially with Chelsea in their current state. Whilst these players could prove to be good enough for the top 4 in the long run, they're not there yet, or at least they haven't proven they're good enough for a period longer than 6 months.

 

The Geordie stereotype is a lot more real than I had previously imagined. It's upsetting.

 

Agreed.

[BlueStar]

The Mackems really, really hate Pardew like

 

Or "Parjew" as I've seen it spelled on their horrible racist sesspit of a board.

[ExiledGeordie]

 

I don't think our play has been helped by the fact that Cabaye has been awful since the Man U game. When Ben Arfa came on and opened things up giving the two central midfielders more space even Tiote was more incisive and coming forward like he was the creative force ffs.

 

To be fair it took Silva at City a season before he started to really begin to play in this league. It's still early days for Cabaye and you could argue that this is Ben Arfa's first real season too what with the injury. I think both will go on to become much more effective once they've bedded in a bit more.

[Razor]

He could definitely be doing some things better, but as a whole I think he's done a very good job. The team is better defensively, the team spirit from Houghtons reign is still there, he seems to understand the demands of the supporter base. The time to think about better managers was when replacing Houghton, and I agree there could have been better choices (at the time I thought there were an infinitum of better choices). Too often clubs get a run of poor results and replace a manager but forget the downsides of doing so, which results in the merry-go-round of faces a lot of clubs have seen in the past few years. We're relatively settled and the value of that shouldn't be overlooked. Pardew does seem capable of learning, which frankly some managers don't, so I see no reason why he can't improve as we go along.

 

One of the keys imo is getting HBA consistently on the pitch (performing consistently), which after that last 45 mins (and Pardew's comments) should result in him getting the opportunity to do that, if he's there we'll play it more along the carpet and that would fix the majority of our rectifiable problems at the moment. I think he's gotten carried away with the thought of two target men upfront lately. Its clearly going to be up to the hierarchy to decide get in a new right back etc at the end of the season with our setup.

 

Chelsea and Arsenal have been (relatively) poor this season which has allowed us an opportunity which we have half grabbed. The exciting thing is at times we look so fucking good with the ball, but i think it would be unrealistic to expect that to have suddenly become the norm when we were undeniably mid-table last season. Other teams are going to have their periods in any match, but there's a temptation to put that down to being Pardew's or the players fault 100% of the time, which it's clearly not. We don't have a top 4 worthy squad, but that possibility is a damn lot close than it was last season, and Pardew has played his part.

[Tiresias]

Still maintain somewhat that cabayes being hamstrung by playing so deep, but agree in a dip.

[nufc4eva]

Pardew needs to realise he can't play raylor at right midfield with Jonas on other side, leaves us with next to no creativity, with Ben arfa on both sides opened up, don't care if he does lose the ball at times he has 10 times the technique of our other players and takes 2-3 of their players out of play straight away, they were bricking it every time he got the ball and helped tiote n cabaye start to play, need to be more dangerous from wing n needs sorted for next season, 2 dangerous wide men with end product n we would be a match for most teams (oh n new centre half n full back please)

[nufc4eva]

Oh and the long ball game has to stop, ba n cisse given no chance, no need for it really