AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I'll be absolutely amazed if we make Europe like. We won't be there long if we do. Fuck me, let's all do ourselves in now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Deadmau5 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thats not entirely true. We do know one thing. There will be hoofing involved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thats not entirely true. We do know one thing. There will be hoofing involved. I'm sure some smart forum expert will be along shortly to tell us that when Krul picks the ball up and wellies it down the field it's a pass not a hoof. There's no possible way that Pardew could ask him to throw it to a full back instead. All teams keepers do the same thing, Man U, Spurs etc. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 One big difference is not having a CM making runs like Nolan was last season. I have the 4-4 with Arsenal from last season on my hard disk and i've watched it quite a few times (it's brilliant to watch if you're, erm, relaxing with some, um, plant based recreation). The thing that always strikes me is that he never seemed to sprint. We would get the ball back near our box or in the midfield and he'd just kind of set off at a jog like an ocean liner starting it's voyage knowing a plane would be arriving at the same time. The ball gets knocked around a bit and by the time it's played up into the danger area his stately jog has taken him right where he needs to be every time. He never busts a gut, he just jogs to where the ball will be in 45 - 90 seconds time, it's uncanny. The difference now is that Cabaye is not moving forward like that, he tends to stay in position when the ball is moving forward so when it breaks or is knocked down he's not there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 For what it is worth I do think we can turn it around in the next 10 games, but it's going to take a mentality change so that we aren't running scared of the opposition like we have for the last month. In effect, the likes of Everton & Sunderland have to win 3 more games than us to get in the top 7 ahead of us. Even over the last 8 games where we've not been as consistent, just to put things into perspective of the task the likes of those have to catch us, over the last 8 games, nobody else has picked up more than 2 points more than us in those games other than Man Utd, City & Arsenal. I'm sure there was a thing on RTG this week where some posted even if we persisted with average points since MoNg took over they'd still be behind us. Might've been pre-Arsenal though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 What happens if we improve our style of play but slip down the league and miss out on europe? Entirely plausable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudil Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 One big difference is not having a CM making runs like Nolan was last season. I have the 4-4 with Arsenal from last season on my hard disk and i've watched it quite a few times (it's brilliant to watch if you're, erm, relaxing with some, um, plant based recreation). The thing that always strikes me is that he never seemed to sprint. We would get the ball back near our box or in the midfield and he'd just kind of set off at a jog like an ocean liner starting it's voyage knowing a plane would be arriving at the same time. The ball gets knocked around a bit and by the time it's played up into the danger area his stately jog has taken him right where he needs to be every time. He never busts a gut, he just jogs to where the ball will be in 45 - 90 seconds time, it's uncanny. The difference now is that Cabaye is not moving forward like that, he tends to stay in position when the ball is moving forward so when it breaks or is knocked down he's not there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thats not entirely true. We do know one thing. There will be hoofing involved. I'm sure some smart forum expert will be along shortly to tell us that when Krul picks the ball up and wellies it down the field it's a pass not a hoof. There's no possible way that Pardew could ask him to throw it to a full back instead. All teams keepers do the same thing, Man U, Spurs etc. . According to some theories in this thread our back four don't have the skills to pass it to the midfield so there is no point anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Thats not entirely true. We do know one thing. There will be hoofing involved. I'm sure some smart forum expert will be along shortly to tell us that when Krul picks the ball up and wellies it down the field it's a pass not a hoof. There's no possible way that Pardew could ask him to throw it to a full back instead. All teams keepers do the same thing, Man U, Spurs etc. . According to some theories in this thread our back four don't have the skills to pass it to the midfield so there is no point anyway. Two (or 1.5 when Taylor is playing don't) of them don't tbf. Also both central midfielders are to keen to receive the ball with back to opposition goal rather than side on hence why we need a happy medium instead of forcing short play which is necessarily going to work unlike many seem to be insinuating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 There is nothing remotely good about our team at the moment other than the abilities of certain individuals. Are we hard to beat? We've lost 7 games to date in 28 matches. Are we tough to score against? We've condeded 41 goals in 28 matches. In short we are likely to concede in every match and given we have only scored 40 goals, that means we are more likely to either draw or lose a game than win. Are we capable of beating sides? We've won a healthy 12 but we've lost 7 and drew 8, that's 15 games we haven't won. Our strengths are: High work ethic Team spirit Individual brilliance That is all our side has to offer. Tactically we are a mess. The shape, the system, the roles of key players, are all wrong. For us to win a game the opposition have to be either really poor and really unlucky while we need a combination of good luck, individual brilliance and valiant effort in terms of work ethic and team spirit. We do not beat teams systematically via a combination of tactics, fluid team play and possession football. Really wonder where you get this stuff. This season sides have had a very hard time scoring many goals against us specifically because of the work Pardew puts into us being stronger defensively. So far 4 out of 5 games this season if we score more than one goal in a game we'd win that match. Going forward its potentially more based on individual ability than it is any form of tactics towards fluid football sure, but claiming we have no strengths whatsoever & its purely down to the individuals on the pitch? Be serious man. A side that just thrashed spurs & destroyed Milan had to score in the 5th minute of stoppage time to beat us with Williamson/Perch/Simpson & a defensively dodgy santon & you think its down to the individuals. Aye what a well reasoned pov. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 what is/are percentage ball and how does it relate to prozone, does someone have a clear, widely accepted or authoritative answer on this or at least more than the vague notion that some 80's era mainframe with spinning reel tapes and flashing LED panels prints out "HOOF IT" on ticker tape while pardew and carver look on dejectedly knowing the machine has crunched the numbers and must be obeyed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thats not entirely true. We do know one thing. There will be hoofing involved. I'm sure some smart forum expert will be along shortly to tell us that when Krul picks the ball up and wellies it down the field it's a pass not a hoof. There's no possible way that Pardew could ask him to throw it to a full back instead. All teams keepers do the same thing, Man U, Spurs etc. . According to some theories in this thread our back four don't have the skills to pass it to the midfield so there is no point anyway. Two (or 1.5 when Taylor is playing don't) of them don't tbf. Also both central midfielders are to keen to receive the ball with back to opposition goal rather than side on hence why we need a happy medium instead of forcing short play which is necessarily going to work unlike many seem to be insinuating. I would just like to see it similar to how we were doing it last season, it's the same defenders bar Enrique(big loss I know). We have in midfield, Jonas and Tiote, same as last season, Ben Arfa who is a superior footballer and Cabaye who is apparently one of the best playmaking midfielders in French football. Also the most clinical striker in the premiership(this might be shite now but he's not far off it anyway). Not saying it should be short all the time either but I think to say they don't have the ability to find other players around with with a short pass is wrong. Coach it into them, tell them to do it. Give them the confidence to play that way and in turn that might just give the opportunity to the better players around them to play the football their skills deserve and before you know it you have a team full of confidence, mixing up the play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Duper Branko Strupar Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thats not entirely true. We do know one thing. There will be hoofing involved. I'm sure some smart forum expert will be along shortly to tell us that when Krul picks the ball up and wellies it down the field it's a pass not a hoof. There's no possible way that Pardew could ask him to throw it to a full back instead. All teams keepers do the same thing, Man U, Spurs etc. . According to some theories in this thread our back four don't have the skills to pass it to the midfield so there is no point anyway. Two (or 1.5 when Taylor is playing don't) of them don't tbf. Also both central midfielders are to keen to receive the ball with back to opposition goal rather than side on hence why we need a happy medium instead of forcing short play which is necessarily going to work unlike many seem to be insinuating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thats not entirely true. We do know one thing. There will be hoofing involved. I'm sure some smart forum expert will be along shortly to tell us that when Krul picks the ball up and wellies it down the field it's a pass not a hoof. There's no possible way that Pardew could ask him to throw it to a full back instead. All teams keepers do the same thing, Man U, Spurs etc. . According to some theories in this thread our back four don't have the skills to pass it to the midfield so there is no point anyway. Two (or 1.5 when Taylor is playing don't) of them don't tbf. Also both central midfielders are to keen to receive the ball with back to opposition goal rather than side on hence why we need a happy medium instead of forcing short play which is necessarily going to work unlike many seem to be insinuating. I think this is a misconception tbh, one that's been encouraged by the way we are currently set up. The two central midfielders don't want the ball when they are lying deep because there's no one to pass to with everyone being on top of each other in our own penalty area pressed by the opposition. It's noticeable when we go behind and have to commit men forward we suddenly open up and look a much better passing side. IMO Santon and Simpson are both very much capable of passing the ball to a nearby midfielder, but as we saw on Monday if they venture too far forward Pardew goes apeshit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thats not entirely true. We do know one thing. There will be hoofing involved. I'm sure some smart forum expert will be along shortly to tell us that when Krul picks the ball up and wellies it down the field it's a pass not a hoof. There's no possible way that Pardew could ask him to throw it to a full back instead. All teams keepers do the same thing, Man U, Spurs etc. . According to some theories in this thread our back four don't have the skills to pass it to the midfield so there is no point anyway. Two (or 1.5 when Taylor is playing don't) of them don't tbf. Also both central midfielders are to keen to receive the ball with back to opposition goal rather than side on hence why we need a happy medium instead of forcing short play which is necessarily going to work unlike many seem to be insinuating. I would just like to see it similar to how we were doing it last season, it's the same defenders bar Enrique(big loss I know). We have in midfield, Jonas and Tiote, same as last season, Ben Arfa who is a superior footballer and Cabaye who is apparently one of the best playmaking midfielders in French football. Also the most clinical striker in the premiership(this might be shite now but he's not far off it anyway). Not saying it should be short all the time either but I think to say they don't have the ability to find other players around with with a short pass is wrong. Coach it into them, tell them to do it. Give them the confidence to play that way and in turn that might just give the opportunity to the better players around them to play the football their skills deserve and before you know it you have a team full of confidence, mixing up the play. This is a good post. If anyone in our team is incapable of playing a ten yard pass they should be immediately replaced, by a youngster, by Carver, by a fan, anyone. The belief among some of our supporters that Simpson and Williamson CAN'T pass it into midfield when it's on is staggering, of course they can, we just have a manager that doesn't value passing and moving. I don't want to see them playing one twos or triangles on the edge of our box when we're penned in, but when we're in comfortable possession in our own half a bit of passing out from the back would mix things up nicely. We did do a bit of it earlier in the season, it is possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 This is a good post. If anyone in our team is incapable of playing a ten yard pass they should be immediately replaced, by a youngster, by Carver, by a fan, anyone. The belief among some of our supporters that Simpson and Williamson CAN'T pass it into midfield when it's on is staggering, of course they can, we just have a manager that doesn't value passing and moving. I don't want to see them playing one twos or triangles on the edge of our box when we're penned in, but when we're in comfortable possession in our own half a bit of passing out from the back would mix things up nicely. We did do a bit of it earlier in the season, it is possible. right, not everyone can be as comfortable under pressure as colo or tiote but if it was capability issue you'd at lease see some variation - passing to midfield when the pressure wasn't as high, launching it when they're really penned in for it to be so consistent suggests coaching/tactics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 This is a good post. If anyone in our team is incapable of playing a ten yard pass they should be immediately replaced, by a youngster, by Carver, by a fan, anyone. The belief among some of our supporters that Simpson and Williamson CAN'T pass it into midfield when it's on is staggering, of course they can, we just have a manager that doesn't value passing and moving. I don't want to see them playing one twos or triangles on the edge of our box when we're penned in, but when we're in comfortable possession in our own half a bit of passing out from the back would mix things up nicely. We did do a bit of it earlier in the season, it is possible. right, not everyone can be as comfortable under pressure as colo or tiote but if it was capability issue you'd at lease see some variation - passing to midfield when the pressure wasn't as high, launching it when they're really penned in for it to be so consistent suggests coaching/tactics which is the key point often overlooked Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The irony is that when they're penned in is often when they don't do it - see Simpson passing to Ben Arfa along his own by-line the other night instead of getting rid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Thats not entirely true. We do know one thing. There will be hoofing involved. I'm sure some smart forum expert will be along shortly to tell us that when Krul picks the ball up and wellies it down the field it's a pass not a hoof. There's no possible way that Pardew could ask him to throw it to a full back instead. All teams keepers do the same thing, Man U, Spurs etc. . According to some theories in this thread our back four don't have the skills to pass it to the midfield so there is no point anyway. Two (or 1.5 when Taylor is playing don't) of them don't tbf. Also both central midfielders are to keen to receive the ball with back to opposition goal rather than side on hence why we need a happy medium instead of forcing short play which is necessarily going to work unlike many seem to be insinuating. I would just like to see it similar to how we were doing it last season, it's the same defenders bar Enrique(big loss I know). We have in midfield, Jonas and Tiote, same as last season, Ben Arfa who is a superior footballer and Cabaye who is apparently one of the best playmaking midfielders in French football. Also the most clinical striker in the premiership(this might be s**** now but he's not far off it anyway). Not saying it should be short all the time either but I think to say they don't have the ability to find other players around with with a short pass is wrong. Coach it into them, tell them to do it. Give them the confidence to play that way and in turn that might just give the opportunity to the better players around them to play the football their skills deserve and before you know it you have a team full of confidence, mixing up the play. This is a good post. If anyone in our team is incapable of playing a ten yard pass they should be immediately replaced, by a youngster, by Carver, by a fan, anyone. The belief among some of our supporters that Simpson and Williamson CAN'T pass it into midfield when it's on is staggering, of course they can, we just have a manager that doesn't value passing and moving. I don't want to see them playing one twos or triangles on the edge of our box when we're penned in, but when we're in comfortable possession in our own half a bit of passing out from the back would mix things up nicely. We did do a bit of it earlier in the season, it is possible. This! And another thing. We don't need wingers! We need players who get into channels and crossing positions, but we do not need traditional up and at 'em wingers! I'd like to see Cabaye, HBA, Marveaux, and even Cisse and Ba work the channels, and put crosses in if need be. The fluidity and interchange in positions is absolutely vital to get the best out of these players imo, and would be so much harder to defend against. I would not be averse to taking this summer as an opportunity to "re-train" Jonas to play at LB. He certainly has been doing most of the defensive work on that side anyway. This would allow Santon to shift to his more comfortable RB position, and we could have some sort of balance going forward. Jonas has played on the left long enough now that, from a slightly more withdrawn left position, he would still do alright. Krul Santon Taylor Coloccini Jonas Tiote Cabaye Guthrie Ben Arfa Cisse Ba ...has got to be tried once this season (minus S Taylor of course). I reckon it makes a lot of sense, and would give us more options going forward and defending as a team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Any RB would have a field day looking at that (imo). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The irony is that when they're penned in is often when they don't do it - see Simpson passing to Ben Arfa along his own by-line the other night instead of getting rid. I went mad when I saw that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Any RB would have a field day looking at that (imo). I suspect you're right but I feel like the spirit of his post is correct, at some point as a team you have to try and make the most of your assets, we've got a few players who can pass and move and two razor sharp strikers who don't suit the long ball game at all, we should be focusing on making chances for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The irony is that when they're penned in is often when they don't do it - see Simpson passing to Ben Arfa along his own by-line the other night instead of getting rid. I went mad when I saw that. I did wonder what the fook was going through his mind then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Any RB would have a field day looking at that (imo). opposition right back? why would they? it's not like our midfield players will stand still in the center and let the other team attack a lonesome Jonas. The whole idea of that set up is the ability to be fluid both in defence and attack. It keeps us more compact, and doesn't leave gaps between our CB's and Tiote, or between midfield and attack. And for the midfielders especially, there is less ground to cover if they're having to run sideways to track an attacking winger, than having to run up and down the length of the general midfield area trying to cut the ball out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Found this cool graph, and thought about sharing it: Premier league possession table. There's a pretty good correlation between possession and league standing, unless you're Stoke or Swansea. And there's a surprisingly big gap between the last team over 50% and yourselves, the first team to fall below it. You also have the second biggest gap between average possession at home vs possession away. http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/premier-league/ballbesitz/wettbewerb_GB1.html (La Liga provided for fun and giggles: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/primera-division/ballbesitz/wettbewerb_ES1.html) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts