Alan Pardew

[Mick]

Why? If we'd kept him and he'd put in that request in the summer we'd have got maybe 20-25m. There's no guarantee his form would continue or that he'd even put the effort in.  We took the deal because it was an astronomical fee.

 

If this was like £15m I'd be on your side, but it's £35m for a player who is far from established. Put it in perspective, Zlatan will cost Milan 24 million. I'd argue just as much as Ashley was pushing Carroll was jumping otherwise he'd have been happy to wait and renegotiate, it was only 6 months away.

 

If we spend £24 million of the Carroll fee on a player it will leave £46,000 a week to pay him over 5 years, he'd more than likely be on less than Smith.

[Pilko]

It's a waste of time discussing this, really. It boils down to how cynical people are towards the board and how much faith people have in Carroll for not being a massive wanker.

[Dave]

It's different because Carroll demanded a new contract or he was off, to our knowledge Tiote did not do that. Also, Tiote was absolutely 100% not on a wage that befitted his squad status. Carroll's wage was debatably about what he should have been on. Yes, he had a brilliant start to the season and an England cap, but it's still very early days in his Premier League career. The offer to renegotiate at the end of the season tops it off, too. It's a perfectly reasonable compromise and Carroll rejected it.

 

We didn't have to sell him regardless of what he wanted.

Why? If we'd kept him and he'd put in that request in the summer we'd have got maybe 20-25m. There's no guarantee his form would continue or that he'd even put the effort in.  We took the deal because it was an astronomical fee.

 

If this was like £15m I'd be on your side, but it's £35m for a player who is far from established. Put it in perspective, Zlatan will cost Milan 24 million. I'd argue just as much as Ashley was pushing Carroll was jumping otherwise he'd have been happy to wait and renegotiate, it was only 6 months away.

 

How much do you think Ibrahimovic's wages are, just out of interest?

[Pilko]

How much do you think Ibrahimovic's wages are, just out of interest?

 

Seperate issues, really. Ian W's post on the last page or two summed that up - we've probably got reserve players (Ferguson, Vuckic) who would fetch higher fees than the likes of Smith or R.Taylor but who are on a fraction of the income.

[Guest Heneage]

It's different because Carroll demanded a new contract or he was off, to our knowledge Tiote did not do that. Also, Tiote was absolutely 100% not on a wage that befitted his squad status. Carroll's wage was debatably about what he should have been on. Yes, he had a brilliant start to the season and an England cap, but it's still very early days in his Premier League career. The offer to renegotiate at the end of the season tops it off, too. It's a perfectly reasonable compromise and Carroll rejected it.

 

We didn't have to sell him regardless of what he wanted.

Why? If we'd kept him and he'd put in that request in the summer we'd have got maybe 20-25m. There's no guarantee his form would continue or that he'd even put the effort in.  We took the deal because it was an astronomical fee.

 

If this was like £15m I'd be on your side, but it's £35m for a player who is far from established. Put it in perspective, Zlatan will cost Milan 24 million. I'd argue just as much as Ashley was pushing Carroll was jumping otherwise he'd have been happy to wait and renegotiate, it was only 6 months away.

 

How much do you think Ibrahimovic's wages are, just out of interest?

Do you want the figure in Euro's or GB Pounds?

 

Even take Gyan, cost £13m, Javier Hernandez cost £7m. There are players available for good prices who won't want stupidly high wages.

[Interpolic]

The Ibrahimovic comparison's a bit daft tbh.  Yeah, he's achieved a hell of a lot more than Carroll but he's 29.  Unfortunately it's this 'resale value' issue again.

 

If Milan try to sell Ibra in 3 years they'll get coppers for him, whereas if Liverpool flog Carroll after 3 years they could quite easily make their money back if all goes well.  Of course it's a risk (mainly because of Carroll being a knacker) but they've bought someone who could lead their line for 10 years or that they could make good money back on if they ever decide to sell.

[Dave]

How much do you think Ibrahimovic's wages are, just out of interest?

 

Seperate issues, really. Ian W's post on the last page or two summed that up - we've probably got reserve players (Ferguson, Vuckic) who would fetch higher fees than the likes of Smith or R.Taylor but who are on a fraction of the income.

 

They're not separate though. If Ibrahimovic is a £24m player he'll be on £24m player wages. Once we established that Carroll was a £30m+ player (forget how you rate him as a player, that's what someone else was willing to pay for him) you have to accept that he would expect/demand wages to suit. Comes with the territory.

[Guest Heneage]

The Ibrahimovic comparison's a bit daft tbh.  Yeah, he's achieved a hell of a lot more than Carroll but he's 29.  Unfortunately it's this 'resale value' issue again.

 

If Milan try to sell Ibra in 3 years they'll get coppers for him, whereas if Liverpool flog Carroll after 3 years they could quite easily make their money back if all goes well.  Of course it's a risk (mainly because of Carroll being a knacker) but they've bought someone who could lead their line for 10 years or that they could make good money back on if they ever decide to sell.

 

No it's not. Ibrahimovic has done all of that and is still only considered a 24m pound player, even at his height when he left Inter he cost £40m. Do you honestly think Carroll will achieve half of what he has? I bet he'll have less league winners medals than Alan Shearer.

[Dave]

We had a fantastic advantage because that £30m+ rated player was already here but cost us absolutely nothing in transfer fee and other associated costs (silly payments to agents etc, the type Ashley apparently really resents). He was also a local lad who idolised our last great centre forward, and close friends with our club captain etc etc. You couldn't ask for a better basis on which to build a team, it was ludicrously fortunate.

 

We valued the cash up front greater than this unique opportunity to take the club forward into the future. Transfer request (that we could have rejected) or otherwise, that's why I'm cynical. Particularly when coupled to the cleverly changed responses to where the money will go.

[Mick]

 

They're not separate though. If Ibrahimovic is a £24m player he'll be on £24m player wages. Once we established that Carroll was a £30m+ player (forget how you rate him as a player, that's what someone else was willing to pay for him) you have to accept that he would expect/demand wages to suit. Comes with the territory.

 

Ibrahimovic is rumoured to be on £8 million a year.

[Interpolic]

The Ibrahimovic comparison's a bit daft tbh.  Yeah, he's achieved a hell of a lot more than Carroll but he's 29.  Unfortunately it's this 'resale value' issue again.

 

If Milan try to sell Ibra in 3 years they'll get coppers for him, whereas if Liverpool flog Carroll after 3 years they could quite easily make their money back if all goes well.  Of course it's a risk (mainly because of Carroll being a knacker) but they've bought someone who could lead their line for 10 years or that they could make good money back on if they ever decide to sell.

 

No it's not. Ibrahimovic has done all of that and is still only considered a 24m pound player, even at his height when he left Inter he cost £40m. Do you honestly think Carroll will achieve half of what he has? I bet he'll have less league winners medals than Alan Shearer.

 

I can't call with any degree of certainty what Carroll will achieve in the game.  He progressed to an insane degree within the space of 12 months, more than I've seen with any other player.  If he keeps out of bother and doesn't pick up too many injuries then I personally rate his chances of becoming a top player.

 

Anyway, that's not the point - the point is that Milan would be paying £24m for a player that will be at the top of his game for 3-4 years then he's worth nowt.  Liverpool have bought a player that could be the spearhead of their team for the next ten seasons or so, or 3/4/5 seasons or so when they can sell him and perhaps get a lot of their money back.  Or of course he could flop, or go to jail, or whatever, but that's the risk you take.

 

Henry was arguably the best player in the Premier League when Barcelona bought him, but due to his age and his contract he only cost Barca about £16m.  Each set of circumstances is different, making a lot of these player-vs-player money comparisons totally irrelevant and misleading.

[Ronaldo]

The Ibrahimovic comparison's a bit daft tbh.  Yeah, he's achieved a hell of a lot more than Carroll but he's 29.  Unfortunately it's this 'resale value' issue again.

 

If Milan try to sell Ibra in 3 years they'll get coppers for him, whereas if Liverpool flog Carroll after 3 years they could quite easily make their money back if all goes well.  Of course it's a risk (mainly because of Carroll being a knacker) but they've bought someone who could lead their line for 10 years or that they could make good money back on if they ever decide to sell.

 

No it's not. Ibrahimovic has done all of that and is still only considered a 24m pound player, even at his height when he left Inter he cost £40m. Do you honestly think Carroll will achieve half of what he has? I bet he'll have less league winners medals than Alan Shearer.

 

Would you actually put money on that, or are you just trying to add a little emphasis?

 

Barring career-ending injuries, Carroll will dwarf what Shearer achieved, whether we like it or not.

[Guest Heneage]

The Ibrahimovic comparison's a bit daft tbh.  Yeah, he's achieved a hell of a lot more than Carroll but he's 29.  Unfortunately it's this 'resale value' issue again.

 

If Milan try to sell Ibra in 3 years they'll get coppers for him, whereas if Liverpool flog Carroll after 3 years they could quite easily make their money back if all goes well.  Of course it's a risk (mainly because of Carroll being a knacker) but they've bought someone who could lead their line for 10 years or that they could make good money back on if they ever decide to sell.

 

No it's not. Ibrahimovic has done all of that and is still only considered a 24m pound player, even at his height when he left Inter he cost £40m. Do you honestly think Carroll will achieve half of what he has? I bet he'll have less league winners medals than Alan Shearer.

 

Would you actually put money on that, or are you just trying to add a little emphasis?

 

Barring career-ending injuries, Carroll will dwarf what Shearer achieved, whether we like it or not.

The former really.

[Anderson]

Can't see Carroll being at Liverpool that long. If he's a success he'll move on to bigger things elsewhere. If he flops he'll be back in Bamboo.

[ponsaelius]

The Ibrahimovic comparison's a bit daft tbh.  Yeah, he's achieved a hell of a lot more than Carroll but he's 29.  Unfortunately it's this 'resale value' issue again.

 

If Milan try to sell Ibra in 3 years they'll get coppers for him, whereas if Liverpool flog Carroll after 3 years they could quite easily make their money back if all goes well.  Of course it's a risk (mainly because of Carroll being a knacker) but they've bought someone who could lead their line for 10 years or that they could make good money back on if they ever decide to sell.

 

No it's not. Ibrahimovic has done all of that and is still only considered a 24m pound player, even at his height when he left Inter he cost £40m. Do you honestly think Carroll will achieve half of what he has? I bet he'll have less league winners medals than Alan Shearer.

 

Would you actually put money on that, or are you just trying to add a little emphasis?

 

Barring career-ending injuries, Carroll will dwarf what Shearer achieved, whether we like it or not.

 

I wouldn't be so certain of that, at all.

[TherealnorthernTOON]

It's different because Carroll demanded a new contract or he was off, to our knowledge Tiote did not do that. Also, Tiote was absolutely 100% not on a wage that befitted his squad status. Carroll's wage was debatably about what he should have been on. Yes, he had a brilliant start to the season and an England cap, but it's still very early days in his Premier League career. The offer to renegotiate at the end of the season tops it off, too. It's a perfectly reasonable compromise and Carroll rejected it.

 

I don't see any difference in the two situations other than money which wasn't used as a reason for not giving him a new contract.  Carroll only asked for a new contract because he was being offered something which dwarfed the one he was on, I doubt any player in his situation would have handled it any differently.  The club decided that they couldn't give him a new contract so soon after signing the previous one, they had no problem doing the same for somebody else who could have also been given a better contract in the summer.

 

 

oh dear, I sure hope you ain't referring to the tiote deal now?

 

[alpal78]

I certainly think there's far far more support for him than there was for Shepherd for example, despite the latter having done far more for NUFC and having a will for us to be better, despite being dreadful at putting that into practice. There's a significant minority on here that don't mind the team being dire as long as Ashley's accountant is happy. I don't understand that and I never will.

 

Where is this 'support'? And this minority that 'don't mind the team being dire'? I can't see any serious poster like that on here.

 

Yup I would like to see some proof of the existence of this minority as well. There are of course those who support the sale of Carrol for fuckig 35M and is going to judge how that money is spent in the summer but that's far from "don't mind the team being dire as long as Ashley's accountant is happy"

 

The problem is those who are even remotely objective or balaced are classified as Ashley fans. It's natural for a forum that on a variety of issues, there will be different views by different members some critical and some in support, but I've yet to see anyone on this forum (serious or otherwise) who thinks Ashley can do no wrong.

[alpal78]

Tiote didn't get a payrise three months prior to signing a new contract.

 

I think Tiote did get a pay rise when he signed his original contract only a few months earlier.

 

It still reads as one pay rise this season, the same as Carroll got.

 

Agree with Jonny, how is it double standards when the two situation are different? Tiote signed with us and got a pay rise. Carroll already had a pay rise 3 months before he was sold and asked for another 3 months later. Very different

 

Plus even if it was not said, i'ts logical to infer that the amount involved was a factor, if Carrol had asked for a 1k pay rise, do you think the club would have rejected his request?

[alpal78]

The Ibrahimovic comparison's a bit daft tbh.  Yeah, he's achieved a hell of a lot more than Carroll but he's 29.  Unfortunately it's this 'resale value' issue again.

 

If Milan try to sell Ibra in 3 years they'll get coppers for him, whereas if Liverpool flog Carroll after 3 years they could quite easily make their money back if all goes well.  Of course it's a risk (mainly because of Carroll being a knacker) but they've bought someone who could lead their line for 10 years or that they could make good money back on if they ever decide to sell.

 

No it's not. Ibrahimovic has done all of that and is still only considered a 24m pound player, even at his height when he left Inter he cost £40m. Do you honestly think Carroll will achieve half of what he has? I bet he'll have less league winners medals than Alan Shearer.

 

Would you actually put money on that, or are you just trying to add a little emphasis?

 

Barring career-ending injuries, Carroll will dwarf what Shearer achieved, whether we like it or not.

 

Can you quantify what you mean? By Shearer's achievements do you refer to his trophy with Blackburn or do we include the number of goals he scored overall, including golden boot awards, his goals for Egland and being top scorer in a major tournament (Euro 96)?

[Baggio]

How I see it is everybody seems to accept that we wasn't in a position to start splashing around large sums of money on players any time soon, we need extra squad depth as well as making improvements in certain areas of the first team.

 

We then get presented with the amazing offer for a player who most wouldn't have thought was worth that much beforehand.

 

Now for me the options were this...

 

*We can keep Carroll, give him a pay rise, hope his form is permanent and hopefully carry the team for large parts and hope he can help cover where we're lacking in other areas of the team where we don't have massive amounts of money to fill those positions with better players.

 

*Sell him and take the risk of investing that cash in 4 or 5 players that will give us more depth as well as making 3 or 4 improvements to starting first team positions.

 

 

Now I liked Andy Carroll when he was here even if the football we played with him was awful to watch for the most part, however the chance to improve our squad and first team with potentially 4 or 5 bodies was a risk worth taking IMO, as I see it as just as much of a risk that Carroll could keep his consistency in front of goal in the first half of the season up.

 

How much improvement do people think we could have made with little money but keeping Carroll?

 

Now how much improvement do people think we could make with a potential pot of £35 million to play with?

 

Like I said it's a risk and Pardew could waste the lot however I see it as a risk worth taking rather.

[Interpolic]

How I see it is everybody seems to accept that we wasn't in a position to start splashing around large sums of money on players any time soon, we need extra squad depth as well as making improvements in certain areas of the first team.

 

We then get presented with the amazing offer for a player who most wouldn't have thought was worth that much beforehand.

 

Now for me the options were this...

 

*We can keep Carroll, give him a pay rise, hope his form is permanent and hopefully carry the team for large parts and hope he can help cover where we're lacking in other areas of the team where we don't have massive amounts of money to fill those positions with better players.

 

*Sell him and take the risk of investing that cash in 4 or 5 players that will give us more depth as well as making 3 or 4 improvements to starting first team positions.

 

 

Now I liked Andy Carroll when he was here even if the football we played with him was awful to watch for the most part, however the chance to improve our squad and first team with potentially 4 or 5 bodies was a risk worth taking IMO, as I see it as just as much of a risk that Carroll could keep his consistency in front of goal in the first half of the season up.

 

How much improvement do people think we could have made with little money but keeping Carroll?

 

Now how much improvement do people think we could make with a potential pot of £35 million to play with?

 

Like I said it's a risk and Pardew could waste the lot however I see it as a risk worth taking rather.

 

 

Played some decent stuff all through 2010 imo.  Not every game like, and of course we mixed it up at times, but it's a myth that all we did was hoof it with Carroll in the side.

[Wullie]

Best football we've seen since Robson tbh, not that there's much competition.

[Guest Roger Kint]

If we spend £24 million of the Carroll fee on a player it will leave £46,000 a week to pay him over 5 years, he'd more than likely be on less than Smith.

 

Dont get this reasoning. The idea was that £35m would be reinvested in the team as wages/fees, at no point does it say 'strictly for new signings over the course of their contract'. Its far more likely that £x will go to new signings this summer while the balance goes towards paying all wages. These back of a tab packet calculations are based on absolutely nothing tbh. Not that we would spend more than half that on one player at any point either mind.

[Yorkie]

Best football we've seen since Robson tbh, not that there's much competition.

 

The spell under Keegan was the best i've seen us play live. But other than that, you're right.

[BottledDog]

http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~2275463,00.html

 

I look forward to the day we have as much ambition as Blackpool.

 

Give over, the only reason Adam is still at the club is because of a fuckup getting the paperwork signed.

There was no valiant fight to reject Tottenhams offer.