buzza Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have an opposing opinion there: He doesn't need those extra two-three yards of space to receive the ball and hence isn't always on the move looking for space, he is always looking for the pass and you can see he's dissapointed a lot when he doesn't receive the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 His technique allows him to receive the ball when shadowed by a defender, his first touch is something shola (who i do like) could only dream of... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 It's hard for us to discuss it properly when we don't know how he is implementing it... we can only suppose he does that logical thing and interprets the good stuff and can excuse some of the other stuff perhaps not highlighted so well from it... Fingers crossed anyway! P.S. At the moment he is winning games so can't be too bad Of course he doesnt use it as his only evidence. Pretty sure he watches our games too..... FWIW 'workrate' that is constantly bleated over with regards to HBA is not only defensive. His offensive workrate is also questionable at times imo. Look at Jonas/Ba/Cisse(only one game but) and they are always moving and working for the team looking to not only receive the ball but bring others in too. HBA too often tries to do it alone like he did in France whereas here its more pass and move football working people out of position. This has been one of my main gripes with HBA all season long tbf. He doesn't look to get the ball enough, and that was the main reason he failed at the classic number 10 spot. That's the strangest part of him for me or at least the bit that doesn't add up right now. In his few games last season, he was always showing for it, always looking for it and trying to direct our attacking play. That willingness has been nowehere near as prominent this year though. Perhaps he's been told not to break shape too much and stick to certain areas or maybe he knows his team mates follow the more direct route and doesn't feel like it's worth it? The only time he really did that this year, (by the sounds of it) was Blackburn in the FA Cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TherealnorthernTOON Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 earlier in the season he rather often found himself behind one or two players in that number 10 spot. This thing has however been better on the wing due to the fact there usually are fewer players there. And you have to remember, not only is HBA supposed to get the ball, the other players has to be able to pass him the ball. As the best playmaker in the league (atleast I think so), you can look at how hard Silva works to get in positions where team mates can see him and pass to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Good stuff. Edit: the article, not Ian's post. Fuck Ian. :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have an opposing opinion there: He doesn't need those extra two-three yards of space to receive the ball and hence isn't always on the move looking for space, he is always looking for the pass and you can see he's dissapointed a lot when he doesn't receive the ball. What? Who mentioned a few yards of space? Did you watch the Villa game? Or any game we have played this season? How often do you see Jonas or Ba standing still when we have the ball? They are always moving, keeping the opposition on the move so the pass is always open for them and look to bring teammates into the game as a result. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 That's the strangest part of him for me or at least the bit that doesn't add up right now. In his few games last season, he was always showing for it, always looking for it and trying to direct our attacking play. That willingness has been nowehere near as prominent this year though. I agree, seems to try to do it all himself lately and losing the ball too much rather than playing for the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Ben Arfa is the type of player who doesn't need to be slap bang in between two midfielders to receive the ball, he moves around as much as the others but only a yard or two from the marking players as that is all he needs. when he receives the ball his touch allows him that time other players would have via their "extra" yards of distance from the defender. It is also easier to trick the defender when he comes at you from close range rather than long range, although you do have the counterside of being disspossed more often if they are good defensively... I honestly don't think his perception of the game is equal to other players as he hasn't ever needed to be so "active" due to his skill set. He does, however, need to do more defensively... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The other downside is that you need players around you capable of putting the ball into your feet or the side of you furthest from the marker... Do we have those? These perhaps contribute to Pards reasoning as well as the aforementioned not so liberal thinking (footballistic terms).. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Ben Arfa is the type of player who doesn't need to be slap bang in between two midfielders to receive the ball, he moves around as much as the others but only a yard or two from the marking players as that is all he needs. when he receives the ball his touch allows him that time other players would have via their "extra" yards of distance from the defender. It is also easier to trick the defender when he comes at you from close range rather than long range, although you do have the counterside of being disspossed more often if they are good defensively... I honestly don't think his perception of the game is equal to other players as he hasn't ever needed to be so "active" due to his skill set. He does, however, need to do more defensively... Its become clear you are talking about something completely different. Sorry but why? The points you make are fine if we were talking about that, HBA's controll and skill is not in question mate its his willingness to work in the team overall not as an individual that you are replying to. In all fairness his defensive work isnt too bad recently, he tracks back and closes down enough which i think i read Pardew say himself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have an opposing opinion there: He doesn't need those extra two-three yards of space to receive the ball and hence isn't always on the move looking for space, he is always looking for the pass and you can see he's dissapointed a lot when he doesn't receive the ball. What? Who mentioned a few yards of space? Did you watch the Villa game? Or any game we have played this season? How often do you see Jonas or Ba standing still when we have the ball? They are always moving, keeping the opposition on the move so the pass is always open for them and look to bring teammates into the game as a result. Ba, hardly ever. Jonas, often. Although since his little spell playing in the 4-2-3-1, his movement has improved. Doesn't always stand on the full backs toes and only sprint when in possession now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 He does, however, need to do more defensively... f***ing tired of this bullshit, he had two terrible games of late, but its a myth he has to do more defensively. He tracks down as much as Obe and he relieves pressure from his teammates. Only thing he has to do is to do the simple things at times, which he will when he gets more playing time. Ben Arfa should be a certain name on the teamsheet everytime. If he aint playing well sub him out at halftime, but not starting possibly the most talented player we have had in over 10 years is ridiculous. We could be better than where we are in my opinion, we could have a bigger goaldifference than what we have, but we are happy with the scrappy 1-0s, 2-1s, and so on. I am happy with Pardew, but he can still improve, and we can still improve. We have a class starting XI and the league is shittier than ever like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have an opposing opinion there: He doesn't need those extra two-three yards of space to receive the ball and hence isn't always on the move looking for space, he is always looking for the pass and you can see he's dissapointed a lot when he doesn't receive the ball. What? Who mentioned a few yards of space? Did you watch the Villa game? Or any game we have played this season? How often do you see Jonas or Ba standing still when we have the ball? They are always moving, keeping the opposition on the move so the pass is always open for them and look to bring teammates into the game as a result. Ba, hardly ever. Jonas, often. You think Ba stood still against Villa? Wow....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 He does, however, need to do more defensively... Fucking tired of this bullshit, he had two terrible games of late, but its a myth he has to do more defensively. He tracks down as much as Obe and he relieves pressure from his teammates. Only thing he has to do is to do the simple things at times, which he will when he gets more playing time. Ben Arfa should be a certain name on the teamsheet everytime. If he aint playing well sub him out at halftime, but not starting possibly the most talented player we have had in over 10 years is ridiculous. We could be better than where we are in my opinion, we could have a bigger goaldifference than what we have, but we are happy with the scrappy 1-0s, 2-1s, and so on. Totally agree with this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have an opposing opinion there: He doesn't need those extra two-three yards of space to receive the ball and hence isn't always on the move looking for space, he is always looking for the pass and you can see he's dissapointed a lot when he doesn't receive the ball. What? Who mentioned a few yards of space? Did you watch the Villa game? Or any game we have played this season? How often do you see Jonas or Ba standing still when we have the ball? They are always moving, keeping the opposition on the move so the pass is always open for them and look to bring teammates into the game as a result. Ba, hardly ever. Jonas, often. You think Ba stood still against Villa? Wow....... Other way round, I've edited my post to make it clearer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have an opposing opinion there: He doesn't need those extra two-three yards of space to receive the ball and hence isn't always on the move looking for space, he is always looking for the pass and you can see he's dissapointed a lot when he doesn't receive the ball. What? Who mentioned a few yards of space? Did you watch the Villa game? Or any game we have played this season? How often do you see Jonas or Ba standing still when we have the ball? They are always moving, keeping the opposition on the move so the pass is always open for them and look to bring teammates into the game as a result. Ba, hardly ever. Jonas, often. You think Ba stood still against Villa? Wow....... Agreed hes crazy. Ba moves so much its ridiculous, his goalscoring record is very much down to his workrate. Edit: Nevermind saw Nath meant other way around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I have an opposing opinion there: He doesn't need those extra two-three yards of space to receive the ball and hence isn't always on the move looking for space, he is always looking for the pass and you can see he's dissapointed a lot when he doesn't receive the ball. What? Who mentioned a few yards of space? Did you watch the Villa game? Or any game we have played this season? How often do you see Jonas or Ba standing still when we have the ball? They are always moving, keeping the opposition on the move so the pass is always open for them and look to bring teammates into the game as a result. Ba, hardly ever. Jonas, often. You think Ba stood still against Villa? Wow....... Other way round, I've edited my post to make it clearer. Ah ok got you, misread it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Jonas' movement is frustrating as fuck but that's just way he plays oddly enough. Like a target man for the wing. Shame as when he does get on his bike he has the beating of most and some intelligence in how runs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Isn't it great arguring which players should be in the team ahead of other players, unlike the relegation season when we just wished some players would fuck off altogether. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 LOL... Yep, it's great being able to argue who merits getting in the side. To sum up: I think Ben arfa doesn't need to move and work as hard (as others)in his attacking side of the game because he is so talented. i think he does need to apply himslef more getting back and covering. For those who like close control players and taking other out of the game here is Ronaldinho at his best... kjhkjhkjh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 To sum up: I think Ben arfa doesn't need to move and work as hard (as others)in his attacking side of the game because he is so talented. Still arguing something different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 buzza just stop posting. Youre confusing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Roger Kint Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 buzza just stop posting. Youre confusing. Just coming across as a fan rather than looking at it how Pardew would thats all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michaelfoster Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Allardyce is a better manager than Pardew whose football philsophies is actually quite similar to that of our former manager, stats based, percentages football, solid defence, direct football. We've put in many a poor performance under Pardew as we did under Allardyce. Pardew is just more slick and more likeable if you like as a personality. Big Sam was welcomed here with open arms by most on his appointment but as soon as we got a billionaire owner fans' attitudes started to change and he become quite the scapegoat. That said, some of the results and performances under him helped to underline fans' attitude towards him which didn't help his cause. I still believe, we'd have stayed up under him and would have went onto become a solid consistent top 8 side at least.... which fast forward to this very days is probably our true level under Pardew. Pardew has a better win % at Newcastle and his total managerial career than Allardyce, not bad for someone who is 7 years younger than Allarydyce and started his managerial career almost exactly 7 years later than him. Sam Allardyce Age: 57 First Manager Job: Preston North End (September 1992) Alan Pardew Age: 50 First Manager Job: Reading (October 1999) NUFC Career P W D L win % Allardyce 24 8 6 10 33.3 Pardew 56 22 17 17 39.2 Managerial Career P W D L win % Allardyce 775 313 205 257 40.3 Pardew 580 257 149 182 44.3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiGeordie Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Allardyce is a better manager than Pardew whose football philsophies is actually quite similar to that of our former manager, stats based, percentages football, solid defence, direct football. We've put in many a poor performance under Pardew as we did under Allardyce. Pardew is just more slick and more likeable if you like as a personality. Big Sam was welcomed here with open arms by most on his appointment but as soon as we got a billionaire owner fans' attitudes started to change and he become quite the scapegoat. That said, some of the results and performances under him helped to underline fans' attitude towards him which didn't help his cause. I still believe, we'd have stayed up under him and would have went onto become a solid consistent top 8 side at least.... which fast forward to this very days is probably our true level under Pardew. Pardew has a better win % at Newcastle and his total managerial career than Allardyce, not bad for someone who is 7 years younger than Allarydyce and started his managerial career almost exactly 7 years later than him. Sam Allardyce Age: 57 First Manager Job: Preston North End (September 1992) Alan Pardew Age: 50 First Manager Job: Reading (October 1999) NUFC Career P W D L win % Allardyce 24 8 6 10 33.3 Pardew 56 22 17 17 39.2 Managerial Career P W D L win % Allardyce 775 313 205 257 40.3 Pardew 580 257 149 182 44.3 Thats says a lot Fat sam is the worst of our manager in living memory compare only to Sourness. I can't figure out who is the worst it is like choosing to be hit by a train or by the bus both pretty painful. I cant imagine a person with clear mind compare that shithole with Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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