oldtype Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Data is very useful in performance analysis, but to undermine its value looking for how far people ran just defeats the point of it (in this case). Use that data for preseason ffs. In a match you look for why and when players run- that's something data can't accurately define. Of course why would we want to look at passes failed/completed, opposition crosses, our possession in defensive and attacking 1/3....f***ing dinosaur. People like JC keep the English disease rampant in the game at the top level. Possibly the saddest thing about what he said is that a lot of our fans will lap that up and think, 'Aye, he's got the passion like, making sure people proper graft man'. f*** off. Football is a simple game made complicated by f***ers like this relying on stats etc while as you say ignoring the passing etc. Watch a few of our games and the cause of our problems are evident, we have very little width, s*** concentration, very little movement / disrupting shape of opposition, certain players with a lack of technical ability such as Williamson, Dummett, Tiote, Gouffran, Riviere. From a tactical point of view we don't have support for the front man / closer support when players on the ball and don't compact when the opposition have the ball, in addition our high pressing is garbage. We did in the past press high up and forced mistakes - not all the time but quite a few times it was effective, now we run around like headless chickens. The cliche "football is a simple game" is simply not true. If anything it's too complex for analytics. Twenty-two players on a wide pitch in a contstant state of movement, instantaneous transition between defense and attack, an incredibly diversity of inteterdependent actions that are near-impossible to turn into discrete datapoints... One of the reasons advanced statistics haven't made much headway in the game yet is because it's so hard to develop powerful model. In reality the sort of statistics that are in widespread use by todays clubs are remarkably simple. (e.g. Passing percentages, distance covered, heat maps) there is no reason whatsoever for traditionalist fans to fear these things like they're some sort of inscrutable black magic that is ruining the purity of the game. None of this has anything to do with Carver of course. He's just stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Data is very useful in performance analysis, but to undermine its value looking for how far people ran just defeats the point of it (in this case). Use that data for preseason ffs. In a match you look for why and when players run- that's something data can't accurately define. Of course why would we want to look at passes failed/completed, opposition crosses, our possession in defensive and attacking 1/3....f***ing dinosaur. People like JC keep the English disease rampant in the game at the top level. Possibly the saddest thing about what he said is that a lot of our fans will lap that up and think, 'Aye, he's got the passion like, making sure people proper graft man'. f*** off. Football is a simple game made complicated by f***ers like this relying on stats etc while as you say ignoring the passing etc. Watch a few of our games and the cause of our problems are evident, we have very little width, s*** concentration, very little movement / disrupting shape of opposition, certain players with a lack of technical ability such as Williamson, Dummett, Tiote, Gouffran, Riviere. From a tactical point of view we don't have support for the front man / closer support when players on the ball and don't compact when the opposition have the ball, in addition our high pressing is garbage. We did in the past press high up and forced mistakes - not all the time but quite a few times it was effective, now we run around like headless chickens. The cliche "football is a simple game" is simply not true. If anything it's too complex for analytics. Twenty-two players on a wide pitch in a contstant state of movement, instantaneous transition between defense and attack, an incredibly diversity of inteterdependent actions that are near-impossible to turn into discrete datapoints... One of the reasons advanced statistics haven't made much headway in the game yet is because it's so hard to develop powerful model. In reality the sort of statistics that are in widespread use by todays clubs are remarkably simple. (e.g. Passing percentages, distance covered, heat maps) there is no reason whatsoever for traditionalist fans to fear these things like they're some sort of inscrutable black magic that is ruining the purity of the game. None of this has anything to do with Carver of course. He's just stupid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/john-carver-would-mad-not-8380476 In the game against Burnley, I thought for 45 minutes we played some really good football. The physical data has since come back and Burnley overran us. We had no legs in the team. And so it begins. I mean, continues. Good lord If this was happening at another club it'd be hilarious. Oh lord, he need a stats guy to prove to him we were being over run. utter nonesense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think Oldtype said it well a few posts earlier. Data is a tool, and like any tool, it can be useful or destructive. If you use a hammer to nail your nails as you build a lovely home, that's great. If you use that hammer to destroy things, well, that's not good. The hammer is the same. It's how it's used that changes. Performance analysis is vital. You've got to find a way to determine if your players are doing what they need to be doing for you independent of the scoreline. You've also got to be able to find a way to analyse scouted players relative to their league to make a determination as to whether or not, like Ayoze, they can make the step up. It won't be perfect, but it can help. You can find potentially undervalued players using data analysis far more efficiently than sending out scouts haphazardly. But you still need to watch them play and talk with them to determine if they fit your club criteria both mentally and physically. Using analytics doesn't replace watching the matches, it merely bolsters your ability to analyse the performance. Teams can and should always use data and their eyes in concert. But you've got to have people in charge using the tools properly. Obviously handing over analytic data to Carver is akin to handing Donkey Kong a sledgehammer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Obviously handing over analytic data to Carver is akin to handing Donkey Kong a sledgehammer. But Donkey Kong can use a hammer http://image.dhgate.com/albu_314771501_00-1.0x0/super-mario-pvc-donkey-kong-action-figures.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphis Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He can! But not to build things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He can! But not to build things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Collage Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Even seeing this thread near the top fills me with dread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David28 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 He can! But not to build things. :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The beauty of that anaology is that John Carver could quite easily be mistaken for Donkey Kong. Steve Stone plays the part of Diddy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The fact that Stone's head is being used for anything other than a world globe drinks holder is a travesty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The beauty of that anaology is that John Carver could quite easily be mistaken for Donkey Kong. Steve Stone plays the part of Diddy. Diddy deserve to be a coach and diddy fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ads Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The beauty of that anaology is that John Carver could quite easily be mistaken for Donkey Kong. Steve Stone plays the part of Diddy. Diddy deserve to be a coach and diddy fuck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The beauty of that anaology is that John Carver could quite easily be mistaken for Donkey Kong. Steve Stone plays the part of Diddy. As if Steve Stone could fly a jetpack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The beauty of that anaology is that John Carver could quite easily be mistaken for Donkey Kong. Steve Stone plays the part of Diddy. Diddy deserve to be a coach and diddy fuck. http://otbva.com/forum/images/smilies2/th_kanyehappy.png :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The beauty of that anaology is that John Carver could quite easily be mistaken for Donkey Kong. Steve Stone plays the part of Diddy. As if Steve Stone could fly a jetpack. Who would be Dixy? i.e who's the least popular? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Getting slated by Durham on talksport now. "Did I just hear John Carver right? He said he wants the job, because he has experience of being head coach at ..... Toronto FC!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Durham's one of the few who's talked sense about us in the past few months. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Durham wasn't a fan of Pardew either, one of the few pundits who saw through all the bullshit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Durham's one of the few who's talked sense about us in the past few months. Aye. I didn't like him previously but he's been very good lately. Just now he was sticking up for the fans as was Darren Gough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It's all just a play though, surely? One saying one, the other saying the other. I wouldn't dare listen to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It's all just a play though, surely? One saying one, the other saying the other. I wouldn't dare listen to it. Gough and Durham have stuck up for the fans for weeks. Most of the shows on TalkSport have been shit in relation to the recent situation(s) but Drive has actually been canny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggs Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 It's all just a play though, surely? One saying one, the other saying the other. I wouldn't dare listen to it. Gough and Durham have stuck up for the fans for weeks. Most of the shows on TalkSport have been shit in relation to the recent situation(s) but Drive has actually been canny. Colin murrays show without him (on holiday) were slating Charver for making 7 changes stating "is that really a manager who wants the job " ,my view any most others i guess just a puppet again ,hate the wanker tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 If carver gets the job I think my interest in Newcastle will drop another 40% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Durham's one of the few who's talked sense about us in the past few months. Aye. I didn't like him previously but he's been very good lately. Just now he was sticking up for the fans as was Darren Gough. I think it's because he's an actual journalist and not just another 'football man' on the british cloggers circle jerk. Same as Colin Murray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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