madras Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 He is arguably the most important part of the new Newcastle United if you like, even more important than the manager. He is pretty much our recruitment guru and key to our success in that area. based on what ? I guess its based on the fantastic players we have signed for relatively little money. Surly anyone can agree on that? the chief scout more important than the manager, well there's a new one. the chief scout will get reccomendations off his underlings and spot some his self, he'll pass them on to the manager after he's watched them etc, and all the senior management staff (pardew/lambias/charnley probabaly carver will have their say, (didn't pardew say he'd been to watch cabaye half a dozen times or so ?). what we have done of late is to do more research and take longer over finding out if the player is not only good enough but is right for us, that is down to a club ethos, probably from ashley/lambias/ and not graham carr's idea. it's this ethos thats changed, if not carr would have been doing this well at his previous clubs. my guess is that had pardew came in at a time when we were doing shit and calling for the managers head then those signings would have been seen as his and not carrs (interesting that obertan is classed by some as a pardew signing echoing the wise/keegan signings with some players moving from one to the other as they improved/worsened) when the truth is like what happens on the pitch it's a team effort as at most clubs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 He's a huge asset, glad the club see it and tied him down, other clubs will have to do with scouting him, hoping to get crumbs that fall off his plate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Great news but hope he lowers his profile... Talks a little freely for my liking... What has he said that you're not keen on? It's more the whole hype surrounding our scouting system... Which kind of goes against everything how it worked this year... Every time I listen to TS 5Live or Sky and NUFC is mentioned so is GC... I honestly think anyone on here or in the media would struggle to name the chief scouts from the other teams in the PL... Basically I feel all this crowing will make the selling clubs & agents just that little more smarter this summer... He's doing a great job but rather he wasn't seen nor heard... Just keep his head down and keep doing the great job he has so far... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 He is arguably the most important part of the new Newcastle United if you like, even more important than the manager. He is pretty much our recruitment guru and key to our success in that area. based on what ? I guess its based on the fantastic players we have signed for relatively little money. Surly anyone can agree on that? the chief scout more important than the manager, well there's a new one. the chief scout will get reccomendations off his underlings and spot some his self, he'll pass them on to the manager after he's watched them etc, and all the senior management staff (pardew/lambias/charnley probabaly carver will have their say, (didn't pardew say he'd been to watch cabaye half a dozen times or so ?). what we have done of late is to do more research and take longer over finding out if the player is not only good enough but is right for us, that is down to a club ethos, probably from ashley/lambias/ and not graham carr's idea. it's this ethos thats changed, if not carr would have been doing this well at his previous clubs. my guess is that had pardew came in at a time when we were doing shit and calling for the managers head then those signings would have been seen as his and not carrs (interesting that obertan is classed by some as a pardew signing echoing the wise/keegan signings with some players moving from one to the other as they improved/worsened) when the truth is like what happens on the pitch it's a team effort as at most clubs. It looks like club policy is the major driver behind transfer success - we're simply working the scouts and management team a lot harder to come up with justifications as to why someone should be signed. So they are having to do their homework on all manner of aspects - are there clauses reducing the price, is such and such at loggerheads with their manager so we can take advantage of that, are they of good character etc. Most of this has worked out well for us, though i do worry about Pardew's comments that his job might be on the line with the money he spent on Cisse - the bar shouldn't be raised that high as there's no cast-iron way to know if someone will be a success. also most of our signings aren't about unearthing gems - Tiote started for the Ivory Coast in the world cup and played for the Dutch champions, Cabaye was the main man for the French champions and a Frog international, HBA one of the most famous players in Europe, Santon one of the most well known young defenders in the world, Cisse one of the highest scorers in Germany, Ba coming from West Ham etc. These are the kind of players every big club will be watching but are probably unsure about taking a risk on, they're not players Carr has 'discovered'. and that's not a criticism in the slightest, because that's the exact sort of singing we should be making instead of getting overpaid Prem players on the way down. plenty of players fit that profile, even highly prized ones at lesser clubs, which is how we ended up with cabaye, fellaini at everton, defour at porto, kompany at hamburg, lamela at roma etc. the big clubs are hovering over big talent but arent always ready to commit. anyway as for us not scouting asia, latin america etc - it's a shame as there's great talent to be found even taking into account work permits (especially as many latins have EU passports). look at kagawa coming from the Japanese 2nd division for 350k - that's scouting, though even in that case he'd been a Japanese international for 3 years. on that note the germans have really woken up to buying asians and im sure a whole lot more will arrive in the bundesliga soon. it's probably an issue of resources as we don't have as comprehensive a scouting system as many other teams. though it's clearly improved since the days of dodgy car dealers like jiminez running things, under the table corrupt deals with shady agents which never materialise, dennis wise on youtube, each party fighting the other for influence etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I don't think Kagawa is really that different to our signings johnny. He'd been built up as the biggest talent in Japanese football for a long time, played and starred for all their youth teams and was their #10 at the last Olympics. Was a full international etc. I imagine a lot of big clubs knew all about him, it was just a case of Dortmund being the first to pounce once his contract ticked over and the extremely cheap buy-out clause was activated. It's more obscure than us buying from France, but not that much. I really don't think there is any that fall under 'hidden-gems' these days, such is the globalised nature of the game. It's more a case of making sure you sign the right players for your club, which we have done well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Another one being Hernandez who was hailed as 'plucking from obscurity'. Even though he was a full international, starring in a league that has higher attendances and viewing figures than most leagues in Europe and cost like £8 million. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Aye but by the same token we don't seem to buy a player unless they've been scouted heavily so it would perhaps be worth the extra couple of hundred grand a year or whatever to have a few scouts watching games further afield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Most of our incoming transfers have been excellent since Carr came to the club, another 8 years of that and I'll be more than happy. I'm not too bothered about how much work he does or who else does what, it's working and that's all that matters and he's playing his part in that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Aye but by the same token we don't seem to buy a player unless they've been scouted heavily so it would perhaps be worth the extra couple of hundred grand a year or whatever to have a few scouts watching games further afield. Definitely. There's always room to expand our scope. We're being hailed as having a good scouting system when what we've done is not really that complex, it's just as massive improvement on what most of the mid-low range clubs in England do. The Premier League has massive economic resources yet most teams piss it down the drain signing expensive, safe Prem based players. Where we've done well is we have a man who is clearly very knowledgeable in his regions of expertise and also understands exactly the kind of players that will be suitable for this (and his) club. We've made sure that they are suitable both from a technical standpoint but also from a personality point of view. Couple that in with making sure the players are treat well and settle and it is a recipe for success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I don't think Kagawa is really that different to our signings johnny. He'd been built up as the biggest talent in Japanese football for a long time, played and starred for all their youth teams and was their #10 at the last Olympics. Was a full international etc. I imagine a lot of big clubs knew all about him, it was just a case of Dortmund being the first to pounce once his contract ticked over and the extremely cheap buy-out clause was activated. It's more obscure than us buying from France, but not that much. I really don't think there is any that fall under 'hidden-gems' these days, such is the globalised nature of the game. It's more a case of making sure you sign the right players for your club, which we have done well. Yep as i said he'd played for Japan for a while, but he missed out on the world cup squad iirc and even played in their 2nd division for a few years so there *IS* a degree of obscurity there. Also with the release clause i imagine that was a lot harder to find out than when we heard about Cabaye simply because fewer clubs have insider networks in the J League. his agent being german probably helped, but it shows you have to cultivate extra networks over there to reap the benefits, something the bundesliga clubs are now doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I don't think Kagawa is really that different to our signings johnny. He'd been built up as the biggest talent in Japanese football for a long time, played and starred for all their youth teams and was their #10 at the last Olympics. Was a full international etc. I imagine a lot of big clubs knew all about him, it was just a case of Dortmund being the first to pounce once his contract ticked over and the extremely cheap buy-out clause was activated. It's more obscure than us buying from France, but not that much. I really don't think there is any that fall under 'hidden-gems' these days, such is the globalised nature of the game. It's more a case of making sure you sign the right players for your club, which we have done well. Yep as i said he'd played for Japan for a while, but he missed out on the world cup squad iirc and even played in their 2nd division for a few years so there *IS* a degree of obscurity there. Also with the release clause i imagine that was a lot harder to find out than when we heard about Cabaye simply because fewer clubs have insider networks in the J League. his agent being german probably helped, but it shows you have to cultivate extra networks over there to reap the benefits, something the bundesliga clubs are now doing. I think the Japanese moving abroad which is quite a recent trend in such numbers has also been largely an initiative off their own back. a. they've rebuilt their coaching set-up and are now producing a higher standard of player technically b. they're actively encouraging them to move away from the J-League, when it the past they were encouraged to stay or at least not actively told to move abroad. In the past players might have had more chance of a call-up if they were at home in the public eye but now more stock is placed upon 'making it' in Europe. Germany does seem to be a prime destination, but many German clubs have an open mind to where they scout and sign players from anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 I don't think Kagawa is really that different to our signings johnny. He'd been built up as the biggest talent in Japanese football for a long time, played and starred for all their youth teams and was their #10 at the last Olympics. Was a full international etc. I imagine a lot of big clubs knew all about him, it was just a case of Dortmund being the first to pounce once his contract ticked over and the extremely cheap buy-out clause was activated. It's more obscure than us buying from France, but not that much. I really don't think there is any that fall under 'hidden-gems' these days, such is the globalised nature of the game. It's more a case of making sure you sign the right players for your club, which we have done well. Yep as i said he'd played for Japan for a while, but he missed out on the world cup squad iirc and even played in their 2nd division for a few years so there *IS* a degree of obscurity there. Also with the release clause i imagine that was a lot harder to find out than when we heard about Cabaye simply because fewer clubs have insider networks in the J League. his agent being german probably helped, but it shows you have to cultivate extra networks over there to reap the benefits, something the bundesliga clubs are now doing. I think the Japanese moving abroad which is quite a recent trend in such numbers has also been largely an initiative off their own back. a. they've rebuilt their coaching set-up and are now producing a higher standard of player technically b. they're actively encouraging them to move away from the J-League, when it the past they were encouraged to stay or at least not actively told to move abroad. In the past players might have had more chance of a call-up if they were at home in the public eye but now more stock is placed upon 'making it' in Europe. Germany does seem to be a prime destination, but many German clubs have an open mind to where they scout and sign players from anyway. Barca have a few japanese and korean kids in their academy too, some are supposed to be pretty amazing. EDIT: search for "FC barocelona infantil A korean Lee Seung woo, Jang Gyeol hee goal (U-14)" in youtube. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Craig-NUFC Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 The song Seem to remember them signing a Japanese kid. Obviously dubbed the Japanese Messi at the age of 10. No pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Very promising stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 A lot of people will say the club is in their blood, but rarely rings as true as with Carr. I'd love to have a drink with him and talk about players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Five o Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 He is arguably the most important part of the new Newcastle United if you like, even more important than the manager. He is pretty much our recruitment guru and key to our success in that area. based on what ? I guess its based on the fantastic players we have signed for relatively little money. Surly anyone can agree on that? the chief scout more important than the manager, well there's a new one. the chief scout will get reccomendations off his underlings and spot some his self, he'll pass them on to the manager after he's watched them etc, and all the senior management staff (pardew/lambias/charnley probabaly carver will have their say, (didn't pardew say he'd been to watch cabaye half a dozen times or so ?). what we have done of late is to do more research and take longer over finding out if the player is not only good enough but is right for us, that is down to a club ethos, probably from ashley/lambias/ and not graham carr's idea. it's this ethos thats changed, if not carr would have been doing this well at his previous clubs. my guess is that had pardew came in at a time when we were doing shit and calling for the managers head then those signings would have been seen as his and not carrs (interesting that obertan is classed by some as a pardew signing echoing the wise/keegan signings with some players moving from one to the other as they improved/worsened) when the truth is like what happens on the pitch it's a team effort as at most clubs. Good post Madras. (Sorry, thought it was Cajun first ) I did not necessarily agree with HTT, i just guessed what he based it on. I can see where HTT is coming from tbh, quality players does make the managers job a lot easier. I will say he is among the most important, as he showcase good players for our management and owner. I seriously doubt Cabaye, HBA, Tiote and Cisse would have been NUFC players if it was not for Carr. I think Pardew would have signed more PL based players, judged by his former history. Now, we will never know, but to think where we had been with signing PL/CCC players, who do not nearly have the same quality as the players we have now and probably cost nearly the same. We would not have the same momentum, i am pretty sure about that. The fact is that its not that important who is the most influential etc, the fact is that we have a manager who have done a really good job, and we can see he is evolving, and learning. And he is very likable. We have a owner, who also seems to have learned his shit the hard way. He is now content with the setup in place it seems, and let thing work out, while keeping in the background. Ashley is a emotional guy it seems, and he have had a rough ride in NUFC, much he can blame himself for. Now pieces is falling in place for him, and i feel he is more up for it now, and are willing to have a go. To add to this, we have Carr, who have been exceptional to uncover amazing deal on continental Europe. Many buys we have done have left other PL clubs in the dust. Cabaye being the prime example. As long as Carr can be on the front foot, find players who fit our profile, we might be in for a very good time, and a exciting future. As a nufc supporter, i have learned one thing. Enjoy the good times while it last, because history shows i wont last forever Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Graham Carr is going to be interviewed on BBC Radio Newcastle this morning, sometime after 8am. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallace Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Great news but hope he lowers his profile... Talks a little freely for my liking... What has he said that you're not keen on? It's more the whole hype surrounding our scouting system... Which kind of goes against everything how it worked this year... Every time I listen to TS 5Live or Sky and NUFC is mentioned so is GC... I honestly think anyone on here or in the media would struggle to name the chief scouts from the other teams in the PL... Basically I feel all this crowing will make the selling clubs & agents just that little more smarter this summer... He's doing a great job but rather he wasn't seen nor heard... Just keep his head down and keep doing the great job he has so far... There is probably also the novelty factor of who his son is that helps increase his profile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sicko2ndbest Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Graham Carr is going to be interviewed on BBC Radio Newcastle this morning, sometime after 8am. Can't get the stream, anyone hear it? Can you post snippets Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Great news but hope he lowers his profile... Talks a little freely for my liking... What has he said that you're not keen on? It's more the whole hype surrounding our scouting system... Which kind of goes against everything how it worked this year... Every time I listen to TS 5Live or Sky and NUFC is mentioned so is GC... I honestly think anyone on here or in the media would struggle to name the chief scouts from the other teams in the PL... Basically I feel all this crowing will make the selling clubs & agents just that little more smarter this summer... He's doing a great job but rather he wasn't seen nor heard... Just keep his head down and keep doing the great job he has so far... There is probably also the novelty factor of who his son is that helps increase his profile. We've made good signings for the first time in years, hype around the people who have done it is inevitable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdckelly Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Aye but by the same token we don't seem to buy a player unless they've been scouted heavily so it would perhaps be worth the extra couple of hundred grand a year or whatever to have a few scouts watching games further afield. Definitely. There's always room to expand our scope. We're being hailed as having a good scouting system when what we've done is not really that complex, it's just as massive improvement on what most of the mid-low range clubs in England do. The Premier League has massive economic resources yet most teams piss it down the drain signing expensive, safe Prem based players. Where we've done well is we have a man who is clearly very knowledgeable in his regions of expertise and also understands exactly the kind of players that will be suitable for this (and his) club. We've made sure that they are suitable both from a technical standpoint but also from a personality point of view. Couple that in with making sure the players are treat well and settle and it is a recipe for success. tbh its a massive improvement on what the vast majority of prem clubs do scouting wise, its really struck me recently how other than Arsenal and to a lesser extent Wigan how crap premier league clubs as a rule are at transfers, the big clubs don't really look for the gems themselves but wait until they're proven in the prem so to speak before moving for them and as such just waste a shit load of cash. Then theres the likes of Martin O'Neill who only seems vaguely aware of the existence of football outside the British Isles and certainly wouldn't sign players from such barbarians unless its a really unusual situation. What the club is doing may only be common sense but it seems in football common sense is not very common. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveItIfWeBeatU Posted June 8, 2012 Share Posted June 8, 2012 Graham Carr is going to be interviewed on BBC Radio Newcastle this morning, sometime after 8am. Can't get the stream, anyone hear it? Can you post snippets The Graham Carr interview is 2 hours 19 minutes. Go here: - http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcnewcastle/programmes/schedules#morning Select "Listen Again" on "Alfie and Charlie at Breakfast 08/06/2012". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EthiGeordie Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Shouldn't this block take some of the responsibility for our current demise. Some of his pick the likes of Marvoux and Anita are at best average. Not to mention not finding a proper center back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ameritoon Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 Think that's down to MA and Llambias more than anything Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest palnese Posted November 28, 2012 Share Posted November 28, 2012 No Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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