Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[Zero]

Not even the greatest Barca player. Iniesta and Xavi should have their own threads IMO.

 

Nah that's bollocks.

 

Not at all.

[Guest ykmkmdd]

Guardiola rates Messi as the best he's ever seen:

 

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2914/champions-league/2011/05/29/2508388/barcelona-coach-pep-guardiola-lauds-lionel-messi-as-the-best

 

Have to say I think I agree.

[ponsaelius]

No they're not underrated, ffs. Everybody knows how fucking good they are, that's why they were 2nd and 3rd in the Ballon d'Or this season.

 

They make Barcelona tick in the same way Messi does, but Messi is the most important player because he is the end product aswell as the cog in system. Take Messi out and Barcelona look half the team.

[AliGupter]

Ronaldo is my favourite ever player, but Messi is by far the better footballer.

 

Messi hasn't achieved as much though, so he's not greater, but in a few years he'll have that no problem.

[Shak]

I'm talking about Brazilian Ronaldo anyway, yeah.

 

Not much of a debate to be had in regards Messi vs Cristiano anymore tbh.

 

I think he's better than Ronaldo like, sorry Tooj.

 

He obviously doesn't have the speed and strength that Ronaldo did, but put a ball at their feet and tell them to run at a defense and I'm not sure I can pick a winner. They're both breathtaking finishers too.

 

Where Messi trumps him though is as a playmaker, his vision and passing is incredible. That pass for Villa in the first half when he almost got on the end of the return ball... fuckin hell like.

 

For me, Ronaldo's speed makes him a more effective (direct) dribbler and I'd say he's finishing is better too. Messi's dribbling is cute to watch, but often they are probing dribbling to create space for others instead of heading for goal. When Ronaldo gets the ball, just one thing on his mind and he pulled it off most of the times

 

Cute to watch.

[Shak]

No they're not underrated, ffs. Everybody knows how fucking good they are, that's why they were 2nd and 3rd in the Ballon d'Or this season.

 

They make Barcelona tick in the same way Messi does, but Messi is the most important player because he is the end product aswell as the cog in system. Take Messi out and Barcelona look half the team.

 

[Beren]

No they're not underrated, ffs. Everybody knows how fucking good they are, that's why they were 2nd and 3rd in the Ballon d'Or this season.

 

They make Barcelona tick in the same way Messi does, but Messi is the most important player because he is the end product aswell as the cog in system. Take Messi out and Barcelona look half the team.

 

Take Xavi and Iniesta out, and you have Argentina

 

[Not really, obviously - extra safety wink ]

[ponsaelius]

Xavi and Iniesta are absolutely brilliant, there is no denying that and their influence cannot be quantified through statistics. But to truly realise how reliant on Messi they are you see what they do when things aren't going their way, they start giving him the ball on every occasion. He has the brain of the other two but on top of that is the best dribbler I've ever seen and one of the very best finishers. He's a close to the complete attacking player as you're likely to see.

[AliGupter]

I'm talking about Brazilian Ronaldo anyway, yeah.

 

Not much of a debate to be had in regards Messi vs Cristiano anymore tbh.

 

There has been two occasions in the past week when people have tried to tell me that Cristiano is better than Messi, I was actually in shock, I seriously don't understand, they couldn't be serious, surely.

[Andy]

No they're not underrated, ffs. Everybody knows how fucking good they are, that's why they were 2nd and 3rd in the Ballon d'Or this season.

 

They make Barcelona tick in the same way Messi does, but Messi is the most important player because he is the end product aswell as the cog in system. Take Messi out and Barcelona look half the team.

 

Could say the same for Iniesta and Xavi though, really. It's always more than apparent when they aren't playing.

[ponsaelius]

I've seen them drop Xavi and Iniesta and numerous occasions and they're still very good. Infact Iniesta missed half of last season and it didn't affect them. If Messi missed half a season (god forbid) they'd be crippled.

[Disco]

Just as a side note I don't recall him going Tardelli like that when he's scored before.

[ponsaelius]

Just as a side note I don't recall him going Tardelli like that when he's scored before.

 

Aye, I loved it. Most emotional I've seen him get.

[Disco]

Just as a side note I don't recall him going Tardelli like that when he's scored before.

 

Aye, I loved it. Most emotional I've seen him get.

 

Most definitely.

[alpal78]

I'm talking about Brazilian Ronaldo anyway, yeah.

 

Not much of a debate to be had in regards Messi vs Cristiano anymore tbh.

 

 

I think he's better than Ronaldo like, sorry Tooj.

 

He obviously doesn't have the speed and strength that Ronaldo did, but put a ball at their feet and tell them to run at a defense and I'm not sure I can pick a winner. They're both breathtaking finishers too.

 

Where Messi trumps him though is as a playmaker, his vision and passing is incredible. That pass for Villa in the first half when he almost got on the end of the return ball... fuckin hell like.

 

For me, Ronaldo's speed makes him a more effective (direct) dribbler and I'd say he's finishing is better too. Messi's dribbling is cute to watch, but often they are probing dribbling to create space for others instead of heading for goal. When Ronaldo gets the ball, just one thing on his mind and he pulled it off most of the times

 

Cute to watch.

 

Cute to watch as in pleasing on the eye but not necessarily dangerous all the time like Ronaldo. This is all so pointless, it really depends on personal preference. I don't get this incessant need to get everyone to agree that Messi is God like. 

[Ketsbaia]

23 years old, man. And he's already the best ever. Un-fucking-believable.

[Taylor Swift]

He clearly is one of the best modern day footballers. The season he's just had is nothing short of epic. From plundering in 50+ goals against all classes of opposition to being the top assist man in La Liga and if I'm correct, the CL as well, is just astonishing. With his goal last night, he also tied van Nistelrooy for the most goals scored in a CL campaign, and what a campaign it was for Messi. He scored in every stage (round robins, 2 against Arsenal in the round of 16, an away goal at Shakhtar, the epic double away at Madrid and the winner in the final), and has continually dominated matches. It's not only his end product that is now so much better than anyone else's (with Ronaldo the only one coming close), but it is in the other parts of his game that he truly rises above the rest, and it was immensely enjoyable to see him play in his best in yet another big match. As if scoring a historic double away at your biggest rivals in the CL final wasn't 'clutch' enough, to rip apart the Man Utd midfield last night was a special performance.

 

It was his movement up front, pulling into the center and dragging Evra with him that created the space for Pedro to slide into. The second goal was him dropping into the space between the midfield and defence and punishing Man Utd. He caused so much havoc by dropping into that space throughout the match and made the pressing by Carrick and Park completely ineffective. It's useless trying to press with two or three men when your opposition has four (Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta and Messi dropping into the midfield). The third goal was also created by him dribbling past two players with ease before losing the ball in the box, but the pressure that Barca as a team put on you has been too much for any team to handle in the past three years and Man Utd suffered the same fate, Busquets stealing the ball and passing it to Villa to finish the match off. I wasn't surprised to see Man Utd playing a lot of hoof ball against Barca because it's too dangerous to play it out from the back against them. It was obvious that Fergie had spoken to Mourinho and that's why he went for the same attacking tactic. It's ironic that the player that can best do this is Cristiano because he's got the speed and technical ability to keep the ball but he's also got the strength and heading ability to actually fight for the ball against Barca's centerbacks. Hernandez is too lightweight for this and he was marked out of the game.

[Tooj]

Ronaldo is my favourite ever player, but Messi is by far the better footballer.

 

Messi hasn't achieved as much though, so he's not greater, but in a few years he'll have that no problem.

 

It's all subjective at the end of the day. I do feel privileged to have been around to see both players in their prime. Much in the same way how my dad talks about how good Cruijff and Maradona were, how when my grandad was alive he would say the same about Pele and Di Stefano. I'll be saying the same about Messi and Ronaldo.

[Dinho lad]

right up there with mohamadou idrissou.

[Rob W]

Tooj - good point he reminds me  a lot of Di Stefano - it's that ability to make tiem slow down around you that makes a truly great player - they jsut never get surprised or rushed

[LFEE]

Always makes me wonder why Zico is rarely mentioned when talking about the game's greats... Still my favourite number 10...

[ponsaelius]

Always makes me wonder why Zico is rarely mentioned when talking about the game's greats... Still my favourite number 10...

 

Never saw him play live but the footage I've seen...genius.

[tmonkey]

Xavi and Iniesta are absolutely brilliant, there is no denying that and their influence cannot be quantified through statistics. But to truly realise how reliant on Messi they are you see what they do when things aren't going their way, they start giving him the ball on every occasion. He has the brain of the other two but on top of that is the best dribbler I've ever seen and one of the very best finishers. He's a close to the complete attacking player as you're likely to see.

 

I have it the other way around. I.e. Messi is the primary weapon undoubtedly, but when he's stifled and constantly running into cul-de-sacs, it's usually Xavi and Iniesta who step up a gear and start dominating the opposition with their "carousel" play, which allows Messi to tone things down a bit, play a simpler passing game and then look to attack in more effective bursts. It's also what they do for Spain, without Messi in the side (though imagine if Messi did have Spanish nationality...well, no need to imagine, it'd just be Barcelona FC on the international stage).

 

I'd also add that Xavi always shows up in these big games. First goal was entirely down to quality play from him, suprised at how little praise he got for it as it was intelligent play under pressure with 5 ManU players near him and his teammates all expecting a through ball (whilst being marked). Best "clutch" player in the world for me at present.

[Tooj]

Always makes me wonder why Zico is rarely mentioned when talking about the game's greats... Still my favourite number 10...

 

People will probably put it down to the fact he never won the World Cup. However, he was clearly a brilliant player, and look at his scoring record for Udinese.

 

I'd recommend anybody to watch the game when Flamengo played Liverpool in the Intercontinental Cup. Flamengo were far too good for Liverpool, especially Zico, who ran the show.

[LFEE]

Always makes me wonder why Zico is rarely mentioned when talking about the game's greats... Still my favourite number 10...

 

People will probably put it down to the fact he never won the World Cup. However, he was clearly a brilliant player, and look at his scoring record for Udinese.

 

I'd recommend anybody to watch the game when Flamengo played Liverpool in the Intercontinental Cup. Flamengo were far too good for Liverpool, especially Zico, who ran the show.

...

 

You could be right regards his medal haul... More fool them... I wonder sometimes how much one's self publicity plays a part... On a slightly different level I'm always baffled how people rave on about Zola in comparison to Beardsley... But I digress...

 

It's nice to see the Flamengo v Liverpool game on YouTube along with so much other footage that is rarely shown on these shores... Liverpool were made to look very ordinary against a team where Zico seemed three moves ahead of the game...

 

It was also interesting to see the comparison of Zico v Gentile  Vs Maradona v Gentile in Spain 82... where I felt the superior dribbling ability of Maradona was contained easier than the superior vision of Zico... fascinating stuff...

 

I would encourage anyone who hasn't already to look up Zico's spell in Udinese... Zico = the benchmark in free-kick taking IMO...