Disco Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Couldn't do it on a wet and windy Thursday at Kimberley Park. Even I can (used to be able) to turn it on that hotbed of football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Tbf those 64 goals that were created by someone else were probably created by Xavi or Iniesta Dont underestimate who assists the assist Good point actually, Xavi has had the most "assists' assist" in La Liga for 4 years on the trot, IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 I heard Xavi has had a bit of a poor season by his standards, true or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Realist Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 GOAT imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Only 3 vs Brazil today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Lets get fact straight though. 3 against a Olympic side. Credit where its due though nonetheless. What a fucking magical goal that 3rd one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 A nice contrast with Ronaldo too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikky Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Lets get fact straight though. 3 against a Olympic side. Credit where its due though nonetheless. What a f***ing magical goal that 3rd one. The 3rd goal was just brilliant: even if it was against an olympic team: not many players score goals like he does Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Lets get fact straight though. 3 against a Olympic side. Credit where its due though nonetheless. What a f***ing magical goal that 3rd one. Lets be real here, if Neymar scored 3 you would be going nuts despite the fact Argentina#s defence Garay aside is complete shit. It maybe an olympic defence but its still probably better than Argentina's defence which is a complete joke tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Ah man, just appreciate the goal/player. Constant comparisons of everyone to everyone else all the time are tedious (and yes there are probably a bazillion posts by me doing this) EDIT: Messi: "I'm not sure if this was my best season. I would have liked to have won more titles with Barcelona than achieve individual records." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Pele scored hundreds of goals against limited opposition yet they're accepted as evidence of his ability. I'm not sure what more Messi has to do, he's broken all sorts of records and shows no signs of slowing down. The day he retires he'll be accepted as one of the greatest of all time. It's hard to compare players of different eras but with fitness, training and tactics now more studied and refined than ever it's hard to deny Messi is already one of the best ever footballers. For me, possibly the greatest. Fact is hardly any teams can deal with him. Some people seem to have a hard time accepting that a current player can be as good or better than a past player. Those retired or passed away have a mystique about them and nobody can point to a poor recent performance as evidence. In fact once they become legends poor performances become forgotten. Who recalls poor games by Pele, Maradona, Best or Cruff? You have to admit looking at Messi's career there are few poor performances you could even point to. He's up there with the best ever for me, and in a couple of decades will be recognised by many as the greatest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Pele is a ballbag and behind both Messi and Maradona. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Colossus Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Pele scored hundreds of goals against limited opposition yet they're accepted as evidence of his ability. I'm not sure what more Messi has to do, he's broken all sorts of records and shows no signs of slowing down. The day he retires he'll be accepted as one of the greatest of all time. It's hard to compare players of different eras but with fitness, training and tactics now more studied and refined than ever it's hard to deny Messi is already one of the best ever footballers. For me, possibly the greatest. Fact is hardly any teams can deal with him. Some people seem to have a hard time accepting that a current player can be as good or better than a past player. Those retired or passed away have a mystique about them and nobody can point to a poor recent performance as evidence. In fact once they become legends poor performances become forgotten. Who recalls poor games by Pele, Maradona, Best or Cruff? You have to admit looking at Messi's career there are few poor performances you could even point to. He's up there with the best ever for me, and in a couple of decades will be recognised by many as the greatest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Pele scored hundreds of goals against limited opposition yet they're accepted as evidence of his ability. I'm not sure what more Messi has to do, he's broken all sorts of records and shows no signs of slowing down. The day he retires he'll be accepted as one of the greatest of all time. It's hard to compare players of different eras but with fitness, training and tactics now more studied and refined than ever it's hard to deny Messi is already one of the best ever footballers. For me, possibly the greatest. Fact is hardly any teams can deal with him. Some people seem to have a hard time accepting that a current player can be as good or better than a past player. Those retired or passed away have a mystique about them and nobody can point to a poor recent performance as evidence. In fact once they become legends poor performances become forgotten. Who recalls poor games by Pele, Maradona, Best or Cruff? You have to admit looking at Messi's career there are few poor performances you could even point to. He's up there with the best ever for me, and in a couple of decades will be recognised by many as the greatest. Totally agree. My friend who is a Messi hater says he can't be in the same bracket as Pele or Maradona because he has never won the World Cup. Did Cruyff or Di Stefano win it? No, so what. Spain, the team that could field Di Stéfano, Puskas and Luís Suárez and still finished last in their WC group Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I think the argument that a player has to do it at the World Cup before he can be classed as a great, is bullshit. The World Cup is quite a poor tournament made up of a hell of a lot of sides who would struggle in Europe's top leagues. The Champions League is the top pedigree tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OoOGazOoO Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 That 3rd goal he scored yesterday was just brilliant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pintofscottsellers Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 That 3rd goal he scored yesterday was just brilliant. Watched it about 10 times already today, absolutely class, to take on all them players and whip the ball in the top corner, sublime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 He tried to score that goal 1242235 times against Chelsea though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Pele scored hundreds of goals against limited opposition yet they're accepted as evidence of his ability. I'm not sure what more Messi has to do, he's broken all sorts of records and shows no signs of slowing down. The day he retires he'll be accepted as one of the greatest of all time. It's hard to compare players of different eras but with fitness, training and tactics now more studied and refined than ever it's hard to deny Messi is already one of the best ever footballers. For me, possibly the greatest. Fact is hardly any teams can deal with him. Some people seem to have a hard time accepting that a current player can be as good or better than a past player. Those retired or passed away have a mystique about them and nobody can point to a poor recent performance as evidence. In fact once they become legends poor performances become forgotten. Who recalls poor games by Pele, Maradona, Best or Cruff? You have to admit looking at Messi's career there are few poor performances you could even point to. He's up there with the best ever for me, and in a couple of decades will be recognised by many as the greatest. Totally agree. My friend who is a Messi hater says he can't be in the same bracket as Pele or Maradona because he has never won the World Cup. Did Cruyff or Di Stefano win it? No, so what. Spain, the team that could field Di Stéfano, Puskas and Luís Suárez and still finished last in their WC group Had absolutely no idea Puskas played for Spain like! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Yeah he did, only in the 1962 WC though. Franco's regime nationalised a lot of foreign superstars in order to get them to play for Spain for propaganda purposes. Particularly south-americans and players fleeing from Communist regimes. Spain had missed the 1954 and 1958 WCs so they tried to assemble a "superteam" with Di Stéfano, Puskas and Kubala. Plus Spanish midfielder Luís Suárez, who had won the Ballon d'Or that year. Both Kubala and Di Stéfano got injuried, so they didn't actually play in the WC proper, but Puskas did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Helenio Herrera as manager too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 So, I have the reasons for Messi best the greatest player ever down to: - CL performances: Scored 5 goals against Bayer Leverkusen this year in a CL game, previous great CL performances include against Arsenal, Madrid. Constant threat against the likes of AC Milan. Two goals in CL finals against ManU. - La Liga/Overall: Scored 70+ goals overall in all competitions this year, averaging 40-50 goals a year (all competitions) previously, tore Madrid apart on a number of occasions, tore lots of teams apart for fun, genreally unstoppable game-in, game-out. - International: Scored a hat-trick in a friendly against Brazil U23s last night, has had a few good friendly games for Argentina. And the counter arguements: - CL: Crowded out and made to look poor over two legs by Chelsea, i.e. a strong defensive unit with quality players. Same with Mourinho's Inter over two legs a few seasons before (again, strong defensive unit), Chelsea over two legs again before that (same story again), and two suspect performances in two CL finals against ManU where his goals (one a header, another down to poor keeping) papered over the fact that he was shut out and frustrated (same story again). - La Liga: His goals tally suggests that the gap between Barca/Madrid and the rest of La Liga is too big, i.e. questions over quality of defences in Spain. The evidence for this would be Cristiano Ronaldo, who at peak form scored 31 goals for ManU in 07/08. Contrast this with 46 goals for Madrid this season, despite not being a better player than 07/08 (imo he has neither improved nor is in as rich a vein of form). That's an extra 15 goals in only 4 extra games. Therefore Messi's domination of La Liga suggests he is great at tearing average teams/defences apart, of which there are alot in Spain. - International: Mediocre World Cup and Copa America performances. Crowded out, marked, unable to do much with the ball, etc etc. Fair? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 The CL argument is incredibly unfair since your argument assumes that to be the greatest, he and Barca have to win it every single season. Their record over the past four years is already unmatched in modern day football, so the CL record is an argument for him. I'm also not sure how you conclude that he was shut out against Man Utd in '11 when he created the most chances and was MotM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 I also think the international argument fails to take into account the different role he has for Argentina. His assist numbers are ridiculous. Even at the Copa America, they didn't lose a game, went out on pens where the whole tournament, Messi created goals and played much deeper than he does for Barca. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Messi's the greatest talent I've ever seen, and I think he'll go down as the greatest if he continues at this sort of level for a few more years. The Argentina World Cup argument is secondary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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