Football's greatest - where does Lionel Messi rank?

[Taylor Swift]

He should have done better for the chance. I thought he had a good first half but disappeared in the second. The whole argentine team seemed to tire. Germany deserved it, shame for Messi. I was seriously hoping he'd do it.

[Sima]

Messi winning it had fuck all to do with Adidas being a major sponsor.  Nah, no way.

[Mr. Snrub]

Barcelona dominate possession in every game they play, and so Messi is constantly involved. Argentina had 36% in the final.

 

I'm gutted for Messi. That chance will haunt him.

 

I'd be more fucking angry if if I was him.  Higuain's chance and then Sabella again bringing on that useless bag of crap Palacio who of course scuffed another simple finish.

 

 

[Taylor Swift]

30 by the time the next WC comes. I hope he hits 70 for Barca next year and they sweep everything. He won't be as good next time as he is now, it's going to be even more difficult to win. Fucking Higuain, man. Ruined it.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Why did they take Lavezzi off btw? That was baffling then and it still is.

[Incognito]

Nobody really mentions Cruijff not winning a World Cup, he just gets appreciated for the genius that he was.

From what i've seen he was like an artist. The expressive way he played the game is very different to Messi. Plus, he won the Euros - no? And his philosophy he carried on from that Total Football thing to other clubs has been very important. Also seems he cares as much about the way the game is played as the result.

 

He's not seen in that Maradona bracket either tbf.

He won the European Cup with Ajax but Holland have only won one major, 1988 European Championships,  way after Cruyff.

[Wullie]

He should be, on pure achievements, Cruyff shits all over Maradona's club career and was the best player in one of the most iconic teams in history.

 

But i'm not personally one to put a World Cup winners medal above club year in/year out domination. When i look at achievement i look at the full package.

 

I think its a bit unfair (not just Messi) that players are judged on a tournament which happens once every 4 years after a grueling club season.

 

In the four years between 1982 and 1986, Maradona played 125 games for his clubs, Messi has played 211 since the last WC. Of those games, 7 of Maradona's were in European competition, Messi has played 43.

 

For goals in that period, it's 68 for Maradona and 227 for Messi.

 

Good advice for any future player wanting to be called the "best ever", just really turn it on at a World Cup instead of knackering yourself out by becoming the leading goalscorer for one of the world's greatest clubs.

[B-more Mag]

"You're just a shit Lance Armstrong."

[The College Dropout]

He should be, on pure achievements, Cruyff s***s all over Maradona's club career and was the best player in one of the most iconic teams in history.

 

But i'm not personally one to put a World Cup winners medal above club year in/year out domination. When i look at achievement i look at the full package.

 

I think its a bit unfair (not just Messi) that players are judged on a tournament which happens once every 4 years after a grueling club season.

 

I think it's very fair. To me, it's still the biggest and most important prize in the Sport. It's our equivalent of the Olympics. For players from uncompetitive nations it's unfair but not for Messi or Cruyff.

 

I love the clutch. You get it in the CL and league football too. But often there's another chance.

 

 

With the WC it brings that "one game... the biggest of them all.... who do you pick?" You go for the lad who does it in the WC. I'd rather Cronaldo in a league season but in a one off... i'd takr Zidane. Cronaldo's probably a better player. Zidane's a true Great. IMO it's very difficult to attain that without international.

 

I know he's played well but he simply hasn't convinced in this tournament for me. I was rooting for him. I want to say i've seen the greatest player ever play in the flesh. But nah... Rodriguez was better for me.

[Incognito]

He should be, on pure achievements, Cruyff shits all over Maradona's club career and was the best player in one of the most iconic teams in history.

 

But i'm not personally one to put a World Cup winners medal above club year in/year out domination. When i look at achievement i look at the full package.

 

I think its a bit unfair (not just Messi) that players are judged on a tournament which happens once every 4 years after a grueling club season.

 

In the four years between 1982 and 1986, Maradona played 125 games for his clubs, Messi has played 211 since the last WC. Of those games, 7 of Maradona's were in European competition, Messi has played 43.

 

For goals in that period, it's 68 for Maradona and 227 for Messi.

 

Good advice for any future player wanting to be called the "best ever", just really turn it on at a World Cup instead of knackering yourself out by becoming the leading goalscorer for one of the world's greatest clubs.

Of course in them days, the European Cup was a knockout with less games plus Maradona got butchered by Goicochea, the Butcher of Bilbao between those dates.

[Wullie]

He should be, on pure achievements, Cruyff shits all over Maradona's club career and was the best player in one of the most iconic teams in history.

 

But i'm not personally one to put a World Cup winners medal above club year in/year out domination. When i look at achievement i look at the full package.

 

I think its a bit unfair (not just Messi) that players are judged on a tournament which happens once every 4 years after a grueling club season.

 

In the four years between 1982 and 1986, Maradona played 125 games for his clubs, Messi has played 211 since the last WC. Of those games, 7 of Maradona's were in European competition, Messi has played 43.

 

For goals in that period, it's 68 for Maradona and 227 for Messi.

 

Good advice for any future player wanting to be called the "best ever", just really turn it on at a World Cup instead of knackering yourself out by becoming the leading goalscorer for one of the world's greatest clubs.

Of course in them days, the European Cup was a knockout with less games plus Maradona got butchered by Goicochea, the Butcher of Bilbao between those dates.

 

I'm not knocking Maradona, simply making the point that Messi has a very good case for being absolutely exhausted in comparison.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

The guy tried, tbh. In the end, he looked tired and didn't have a great final, but some of his teammates who are generally highly regarded and coveted club players let him down. There was plenty of space to exploit today with Germany pushing up the field and everyone's eyes on Messi. Man carried them on his back to beat competitive sides in Bosnia, Belgium, Nigeria, and Switzerland and a bus in Iran. They came against better sides in the semi and final and it just didn't work anymore.

 

Messi's game is not really about explosive athleticism. He may have lost some pace by 2018, but he'll still have the best feet in the world, great passing ability, and be a great finisher. This is but a chapter in his great World Cup work. Maybe the climax before the triumphant end. We will see.

 

[tmonkey]

I think some folk are missing the point with this Messi "debate".

 

When he was at his best for Barca, there was (as an analogy) a group of people calling him the best player ever because of his ridiculous goalscoring records/consistency, and another (considerably smaller) group who questioned how he would fare if he wasn't in such a fantastic Barcelona side that was built around him, since when you not only compare him to, but declare him to be better than, someone like Maradona (who transformed nothing teams like Napoli and Argentina into winning Serie A and the World Cup respectively) there needs to be some sort of feat where Messi's heart/fighting spirit/leadership/ability to be the talisman/raise the level of a team/etc can be analysed and compared. Especially with Xavi and Iniesta controlling games and allowing Messi to add the finishing touches with his explosiveness - Spain comfortably winning Euro 2008, and to a lesser extent the 2010 World Cup, was clear evidence of just how good Xavi and Iniesta were at controlling games.

 

Since there was no chance of Messi moving to e.g. West Brom and single handedly transforming them into a Premiership winning side, the World Cup was meant to have been his chance to cement himself as the best player ever because of how average this Argentina side were meant to be and how the team was going to be built around him. I think some folk expected him to have to win it in order to prove himself as up there with (or on top of) the all time greats, but others (I'd lump myself in here) only expected him to shine and be the talisman player for his team, irrespective of whether that meant a World Cup win or not.

 

I think this is a perfectly reasonable line of thinking and therefore his performances in this and previous World Cups are definitely relevant to the overall perception of his "greatness".

[Disco]

Shouldn't stop bottling it then should he? Malvinas loving prick. Scared of the best league in the world.

[Neil]

He's one of the greatest either way.

 

Unfortunately how he will be remembered from this World Cup is not the great player who elevated his average side to glory. He'll be remembered as the great player who got pulled down to the level of those around him.

 

[Parky]

I think some folk are missing the point with this Messi "debate".

 

When he was at his best for Barca, there was (as an analogy) a group of people calling him the best player ever because of his ridiculous goalscoring records/consistency, and another (considerably smaller) group who questioned how he would fare if he wasn't in such a fantastic Barcelona side that was built around him, since when you not only compare him to, but declare him to be better than, someone like Maradona (who transformed nothing teams like Napoli and Argentina into winning Serie A and the World Cup respectively) there needs to be some sort of feat where Messi's heart/fighting spirit/leadership/ability to be the talisman/raise the level of a team/etc can be analysed and compared. Especially with Xavi and Iniesta controlling games and allowing Messi to add the finishing touches with his explosiveness - Spain comfortably winning Euro 2008, and to a lesser extent the 2010 World Cup, was clear evidence of just how good Xavi and Iniesta were at controlling games.

 

Since there was no chance of Messi moving to e.g. West Brom and single handedly transforming them into a Premiership winning side, the World Cup was meant to have been his chance to cement himself as the best player ever because of how average this Argentina side were meant to be and how the team was going to be built around him. I think some folk expected him to have to win it in order to prove himself as up there with (or on top of) the all time greats, but others (I'd lump myself in here) only expected him to shine and be the talisman player for his team, irrespective of whether that meant a World Cup win or not.

 

I think this is a perfectly reasonable line of thinking and therefore his performances in this and previous World Cups are definitely relevant to the overall perception of his "greatness".

 

What Maradona did at Napoli will never be matched.

[Mr. Snrub]

I think some folk are missing the point with this Messi "debate".

 

When he was at his best for Barca, there was (as an analogy) a group of people calling him the best player ever because of his ridiculous goalscoring records/consistency, and another (considerably smaller) group who questioned how he would fare if he wasn't in such a fantastic Barcelona side that was built around him, since when you not only compare him to, but declare him to be better than, someone like Maradona (who transformed nothing teams like Napoli and Argentina into winning Serie A and the World Cup respectively) there needs to be some sort of feat where Messi's heart/fighting spirit/leadership/ability to be the talisman/raise the level of a team/etc can be analysed and compared. Especially with Xavi and Iniesta controlling games and allowing Messi to add the finishing touches with his explosiveness - Spain comfortably winning Euro 2008, and to a lesser extent the 2010 World Cup, was clear evidence of just how good Xavi and Iniesta were at controlling games.

 

Since there was no chance of Messi moving to e.g. West Brom and single handedly transforming them into a Premiership winning side, the World Cup was meant to have been his chance to cement himself as the best player ever because of how average this Argentina side were meant to be and how the team was going to be built around him. I think some folk expected him to have to win it in order to prove himself as up there with (or on top of) the all time greats, but others (I'd lump myself in here) only expected him to shine and be the talisman player for his team, irrespective of whether that meant a World Cup win or not.

 

I think this is a perfectly reasonable line of thinking and therefore his performances in this and previous World Cups are definitely relevant to the overall perception of his "greatness".

 

What Maradona did at Napoli will never be matched.

 

Complete myth that Maradona carried Napoli, they had a great team.

[Interpolic]

By the same token it's a complete myth that this Argentina side is shite, well in terms of the players in the squad anyway.

[triggs]

By the same token it's a complete myth that this Argentina side is shite, well in terms of the players in the squad anyway.

Their best players on paper apart from Messi and Mascherano have been shite

 

Edit: And Zabaleta

[Hanshithispantz]

Rojo, Garay, di María were not shite like.

[Interpolic]

Aye but they're still there, aren't they?  I was talking more about how the tournament had been built up re Messi.  Plus they looked incredibly solid at the back, which not that many people expected as far as I know.  Wish they'd been a bit more free-flowing, but they did play a lot of sides who wanted to sit back.

[Neil]

None of the defence were.

 

Argentina's problem was they had little to nothing in an attacking sense coming from central midfield. It was all about shielding the backline and giving it to Messi, maybe Di Maria, and seeing if they could do something.

 

The point is due to a lack of fluidity, the team was built around individual, reactive moments rather than dominating and creating a succession of chances. This lent itself to Messi being ideally positioned to drag his team to glory. Unfortunately, he couldn't do it.

[triggs]

Rojo, Garay, di María were not shite like.

It's their players that would have been looked on as being brilliant before the tournament I was talking about so that doesn't include Rojo, Garay, Demichelis etc. who did play well. I didn't think Di Maria was very good at all

[Neil]

Also, is it just me or does Messi just look plain knackered?

 

Not one for hyperbole but when fit, he plays virtually every minute of every single game. Year after year. Especially under Guardiola, it felt like he never, ever got subbed. Add in international commitments too and you've got to wonder whether he's simply worn out and whether it's all catching up with his body a bit?

 

Whatever it is, he's not the same Messi of 2008-2013. Something's changed, just hope it's not permanent.

[IceMag]

The year is 2014, not 1986. Football has evolved. To carry a team to a World Cup or a League title, like Maradona did, is simply not possible in today's game, IMO.