Tooj Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Both would look shit playing for us mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Because Ronaldo isn't a playmaker, he's a wide forward, and one of the greatest wide forwards we've ever seen at that. Messi is just a freak, he can play any attacking role on the pitch and still be the best by a distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Ronaldo not a phenomenal footballer? So there is one, and only one phenomenal footballer on the planet? i think this whole thing is largely an argument over semantics, i consider cronaldo to be a phenomenal goalscorer but not a phenomenal footballer, it's my understanding of the term meaning he'd need more to his game than i believe he does Doesn't seem 5 minutes since Ferguson had a bet with Ronaldo to hit 15 goals one year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Ronaldo is a completely different player to was when he was younger. Much better and far more effective as you'd expect as he hits his peak, but completely different. Him still playing as a 'winger' is little more than than a relic leftover from his earlier career, he's very much a centre forward in every way. If you look at the average positions from last season he is consistently the player positioned furthest forward on the pitch, he is the final stop for much of Madrid's attacks and counterattacks. His pace, power, movement, finishing and positioning are all phenomenal and with the likes of Ozil, Di Maria and Benzema to play with he has world class service. It's far too much of an insult to call him exclusively a poacher or a goal-moocher as much as I'd like to do so, because he still does contribute in other ways and can always score spectacular goals (which a 'poacher' wouldn't even dream of) but the inference that he has focused his game towards goalscoring is an accurate one much as his fanboys would like to deny. I think he's actually been trying to go back the other way a bit more this season, though - there has been times where he's tried a pass when previously he wouldn't have even considered so. Whether this is a concious thing or something that Mourinho is trying tactically I don't know but it certainly has seemed that way to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Zambian FA trying to take Messi's record away http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/12/lionel-messi-godfrey-chitalu-zambia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Check out my forum name. How old are you? What's your name? Where do you live? Then I think it instantly makes an absolute mockery of the ridiculous lengths you go to fight your case for Pele, regardless of your Brazilian heritage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 agree with hans and sewelly's posts...nothing to take away from cronaldo he's awesome *but* he's a striker basically aye, an amazing fuckin striker with outstanding consistency Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Iniesta > Ronaldo Don't necessarily agree here. I love Iniesta to bits, but CRonaldo is still the 2nd best in the world at the moment and that also seems to be the consensus. It can be the general consensus all it wants, doesn't mean I'm going to agree with it because most others do. Ronaldo is phenomenal but for me a lot of it comes from his incredible physique. There's nothing wrong with that obviously, but it just doesn't rank as highly for me. If you took that away from him (which I appreciate is unfair), he wouldn't be that much of a standout player but his physique in general is what makes him so special. In terms of footballing ability, Iniesta is on a different level. Iniesta can't do a lot that Ronaldo can due to their physical attributes but Ronaldo cannot do a lot of the things Iniesta can in terms of technique. Some of the things he can do whilst on the ball scares me due to how it all comes from his technique and footballing brain rather than being stronger or quicker than an opponent; he outthinks them and uses his outrageous ability on the ball as well as his vision to progress an attack, get out of danger, etc. Along with Messi, the three of them are by far and away the best in the world at the moment but I just don't agree with the Messi-Ronaldo-Iniesta order. Messi is a genius and I also believe Iniesta is too. Ronaldo is sheer class of course but doesn't fit into that category for me which is why I'd place Iniesta ahead of him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Iniesta is certainly the player in the world I enjoy watching the most. Don't know if I'd put him ahead of Xavi or CRonaldo for who is better, but he is just fantastic to watch. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Tbf, Ronaldo being able to cannon one in from 40 yards is all technique. I agree with the rest like, they're brilliant players for different reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Just because people watch the World Cup doesn't mean that it should be a significant factor in determining a player's greatness. Its a maximum of 7 games every four years in which one injury or stupid refereeing decision can cost you a shot at winning or doing well. Like ive said, ill take 60 games a year every year because that is the true mark of greatness. To be great you have to be consistently great. Cristiano is better than Romario. You talk about Romario's work ethic like its something cool, like its something to be respected. Maybe his natural talent was so good. Maybe Ronaldo is a product of hard work, a machine rather than something natural, instinctive. But I will take Cristiano any day of the week because he's remarkably effective. Romario shouldn't even be in this discussion. He's not in the second tier of great footballers. Ronaldo is far better than he ever was. I agree with Ash that Iniesta is a better natural footballer than Ronaldo and I'd rather watch the former than the latter all day long, but it still doesn't mean that Iniesta is better. Ronaldo is a machine. No one is as fast or strong or powerful as him. His unique combination of physicality is historic and he's able to convert that into being an incredibly effective footballer. We're not talking about beauty or pleasure here. To be great, you have to effective, you have to be a game changer. That is certainly what Ronaldo has been for five straight years now. His biggest weakness was his lack of influence in big games but he's scored in 7 straight Clasicos and counting and no one in the world seems to be able to stop him. Just because Messi is so incredibly historically good doesn't mean Ronaldo is overrated. Both are historic talents. Messi is on his way to being the best ever but Ronaldo is also etching himself into histoy books. If Ronaldo keeps this up for a few more years, he'll comfortably be the leader of second tier footballers, and that means he's ahead of Zidane, Iniesta, Xavi etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 At the end of Ronaldo's career, people will ask whether he's the greatest CF to ever play the game and it will be a serious question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cronaldo isn't a CF He's pretty uncomfortable on that role, actually. He's best having somebody else lead the line and allowing him to make those runs with the space a centreforward creates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 I actually can't believe I have to defend Ronaldo. I hate the bastard. If Messi wasn't playing, Ronaldo, with the insane amount of goals he scores, would sweep the player of the year awards every year. Now lets say he wins 3-4 of those. Would that not automatically make him one of the best ever? Of course we will never know because Messi exists but that shouldn't be used to underrate Ronaldo. You put up his year against the previous ten Ballon d'Or winners and you would pick him 8 times out of ten. Look at 1999-2009, the first year Messi won. If you put up Ronaldo's year against Sheva, Figo, Cannavaro, Kaka, Nedved, Owen etc, you would pick Ronaldo every single time. He would easily sweep every award if Messi didn't exist. He would be on his 3rd or 4th Ballon d'Or by now. That, to me, says he's an insanely good footballer who was just born in the wrong time and he will forever live in Messi's shadow, but have no doubt, if Messi weren't playing, Ronaldo would universally be accepted as a top ten ever footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Cronaldo isn't a CF He's pretty uncomfortable on that role, actually. He's best having somebody else lead the line and allowing him to make those runs with the space a centreforward creates. Fine. Goalscorer then. I remove Messi from this discussion because he would win every category. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 At the end of Ronaldo's career, people will ask whether he's the greatest CF to ever play the game and it will be a serious question. No they won't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 If Ronaldo keeps this up for a few more years, he'll comfortably be the leader of second tier footballers, and that means he's ahead of Zidane, Iniesta, Xavi etc. That'll he be better than those is debatable, but comfortably? Only if you guage the greatness of footballers, narrowly, through the eyes of a goalscorer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Zambian FA trying to take Messi's record away http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/dec/12/lionel-messi-godfrey-chitalu-zambia I hope that his goal tally can be certified and I hope that FIFA have the bollocks to then give the award to the true record holder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 To be frank though, I'm pretty sure there are quite a few footballers that scored absurd amounts of goals in obscure leagues/tournaments back in their times. It's just a silly stat, there isn't even a formal award for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Just because people watch the World Cup doesn't mean that it should be a significant factor in determining a player's greatness. Its a maximum of 7 games every four years in which one injury or stupid refereeing decision can cost you a shot at winning or doing well. Like ive said, ill take 60 games a year every year because that is the true mark of greatness. To be great you have to be consistently great. Cristiano is better than Romario. You talk about Romario's work ethic like its something cool, like its something to be respected. Maybe his natural talent was so good. Maybe Ronaldo is a product of hard work, a machine rather than something natural, instinctive. But I will take Cristiano any day of the week because he's remarkably effective. Romario shouldn't even be in this discussion. He's not in the second tier of great footballers. Ronaldo is far better than he ever was. I agree with Ash that Iniesta is a better natural footballer than Ronaldo and I'd rather watch the former than the latter all day long, but it still doesn't mean that Iniesta is better. Ronaldo is a machine. No one is as fast or strong or powerful as him. His unique combination of physicality is historic and he's able to convert that into being an incredibly effective footballer. We're not talking about beauty or pleasure here. To be great, you have to effective, you have to be a game changer. That is certainly what Ronaldo has been for five straight years now. His biggest weakness was his lack of influence in big games but he's scored in 7 straight Clasicos and counting and no one in the world seems to be able to stop him. Just because Messi is so incredibly historically good doesn't mean Ronaldo is overrated. Both are historic talents. Messi is on his way to being the best ever but Ronaldo is also etching himself into histoy books. If Ronaldo keeps this up for a few more years, he'll comfortably be the leader of second tier footballers, and that means he's ahead of Zidane, Iniesta, Xavi etc. You're also doing a massive disservice to Romário. In my time watching football I've not seen a better player in terms of playing the role as a goal poacher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Given a choice, I'd have C Ronaldo over Romario in my team every day of the week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 To be frank to Romário, though, the first season with us was the best football I have ever witnessed us play until Pep took charge. He was just too lazy/unreliable. Another name for the "How highly do you rate..." thread, imho. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Starts against Cordoba tonight, live on Sky Sports 3 at 7pm as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted December 12, 2012 Share Posted December 12, 2012 87 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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