Daft questions (football edition)

[Dinho lad]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

[Kaizero]

 

 

 

 

That said, if I'm so wrong, do explain how it's not a symbolic act for a footballer to take home a ball used in a match where he's scored a hat-trick. It's a memory of the time he scored a hat-trick. If he scored all, one or none of the goals in the match with the ball he's taking home doesn't make it any less symbolic for the player as the intended purpose is either to serve as a memory of the event and/or showcasing it as a symbol of said event.

 

Well no, because the conversation was about the actual ball vs just any one of multiple balls from a match. Any one of multiple balls from a match is symbolic, the actual one isn't, it's the real thing. The difference between 'I scored a hattrick with that football vs Real Madrid' and 'I scored a hattrick Vs Real Madrid, possibly with that football and one or two other footballs'

 

But the entire act of taking a commemorative ball home in the first place is a wholly symbolic gesture, is Kaiz's point. There's no practical function to it. There's nothing special about the ball used to score a hat-trick, except for the symbolic meaning invested in it.

 

There's nothing special about the ball used to score a hattrick? Of course there is, it's the actual ball, that's the whole point that was made. There's no symbolism, because it's not symbolic of the real thing, it is the real thing. Kaiz's mistaken what the conversation was about.

 

For evidence of the difference, look at the price difference between match worn shirts and replica shirts.

 

As Ian W said, what matters is that the ball was used in the game. Not that all goals were scored with the same ball. If that was as important as you and Dinho insists, then why do hat-trick scorers still take a ball with them and display it? You take it to commemorate the time you scored a hat-trick, you don’t take it because that was the ball you scored a hat-trick with. The ball is only symbolic of the match where the incident happened, and serves as a reminder of the event.

 

It's not for you to decide on what matters. If I was a footballer I'd want the actual football if I could, that's why the price of a match worn shirt Vs replica shirt point makes sense, because it's a mental thing where you look at something and know that it was involved rather than symbolically, which means less universally. It's a very easy to understand point that I know you understand, but keep ignoring for whatever reason. Either way, Godspeed, we're boring the living shit out of everyone.

 

I know what you’re getting at. I’m not disputing that the symbolism of one thing isn’t greater and/or equal to the symbolism of something else. I’m saying it’s a symbolic act in general and that’s why they bring home a match ball after scoring a hat-trick. Just for some reason I’m now discussing the concept of a  symbolic act with Dinho.

[Bimpy474]

[Kaizero]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

 

The match ball is a symbol commemorating the hat-trick. It’s not hard.

[Dinho lad]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

 

The match ball is a symbol commemorating the hat-trick. It’s not hard.

 

 

You're making it about the event - but it's actually about the ball and what you've done with it.

 

[Deuce]

I can't even tell what this argument is about tbh.

[Bimpy474]

Aye but it's great fun on a boring Sunday.

[M4]

No one answered me fuckin lights on in the day question, man

 

 

So yeah, I think it's to ensure the visibility stays consistent throughout the game as the sun fades.

 

But then that seems less likely for a game kicking off in an August afternoon. Testing them out?

[Happinesstan]

One day Ronaldo will die and his balls will be auctioned. And the fact that multiple balls were used in the game will be ignored.

 

[Kaizero]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

 

The match ball is a symbol commemorating the hat-trick. It’s not hard.

 

 

You're making it about the event - but it's actually about the ball and what you've done with it.

 

 

It’s not, it’s about you scoring a hat trick. The match ball you’re taking home might have been involved in zero of the goals you scored, meaning it’s clearly not about the ball. I’m not saying it once wasn’t about the ball when there still was a one ball system, but that it absolutely is not anymore. Even with the one ball system balls got replaced every now and then and I wager a player scoring a hat trick still took home the ball the match ended with.

 

Hence the ball is a symbol commemorating an event.

[Happinesstan]

Hot-shot Hamish scored a hat-trick and burst the ball. And he took the burst ball.

[Dinho lad]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

 

The match ball is a symbol commemorating the hat-trick. It’s not hard.

 

 

You're making it about the event - but it's actually about the ball and what you've done with it.

 

 

It’s not, it’s about you scoring a hat trick. The match ball you’re taking home might have been involved in zero of the goals you scored, meaning it’s clearly not about the ball. I’m not saying it once wasn’t about the ball when there still was a one ball system, but that it absolutely is not anymore. Even with the one ball system balls got replaced every now and then and I wager a player scoring a hat trick still took home the ball the match ended with.

 

Hence the ball is a symbol commemorating an event.

 

 

 

If it's now a symbolic act, then fair enough.

 

In what world would you ever think it's not? FFS

 

 

 

 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

I have no clue where this argument is going like.

 

In a multi-ball system then it's purely symbolism - it's just carrying on the act from when it 'made sense' - "you scored a hatrick so we're giving you a ball, mate". In a one ball system then it's still symbolic in a sense (it's still a ball, not the legitimate incarnation of the hatrick) but as it's the actual 

 

Actually I cannot even be arsed to finish this post.

[Happinesstan]

Hot-shot Hamish scored a hat-trick and burst the ball. And he took the burst ball.

 

Or was it Jon Stark?

[Kaizero]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

 

The match ball is a symbol commemorating the hat-trick. It’s not hard.

 

 

You're making it about the event - but it's actually about the ball and what you've done with it.

 

 

It’s not, it’s about you scoring a hat trick. The match ball you’re taking home might have been involved in zero of the goals you scored, meaning it’s clearly not about the ball. I’m not saying it once wasn’t about the ball when there still was a one ball system, but that it absolutely is not anymore. Even with the one ball system balls got replaced every now and then and I wager a player scoring a hat trick still took home the ball the match ended with.

 

Hence the ball is a symbol commemorating an event.

 

 

 

If it's now a symbolic act, then fair enough.

 

In what world would you ever think it's not? FFS

 

 

 

 

 

 

This does nothing. It’s the same argument. In what world has it not been a symbolic act? Jesus christ, man. For absolute fucking fucks sake. Taking the match ball after you score a hat trick is to commemorate the event with a symbol from the match. If you scored three or zero goals with the ball you take makes no difference to the intended purpose of taking the match ball.

[Kaizero]

I have no clue where this argument is going like.

 

In a multi-ball system then it's purely symbolism - it's just carrying on the act from when it 'made sense' - "you scored a hatrick so we're giving you a ball, mate". In a one ball system then it's still symbolic in a sense (it's still a ball, not the legitimate incarnation of the hatrick) but as it's the actual 

 

Actually I cannot even be arsed to finish this post.

 

You don’t have to. You understand it. It’s so fucking easy.

[Dinho lad]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

 

The match ball is a symbol commemorating the hat-trick. It’s not hard.

 

 

You're making it about the event - but it's actually about the ball and what you've done with it.

 

 

It’s not, it’s about you scoring a hat trick. The match ball you’re taking home might have been involved in zero of the goals you scored, meaning it’s clearly not about the ball. I’m not saying it once wasn’t about the ball when there still was a one ball system, but that it absolutely is not anymore. Even with the one ball system balls got replaced every now and then and I wager a player scoring a hat trick still took home the ball the match ended with.

 

Hence the ball is a symbol commemorating an event.

 

 

 

If it's now a symbolic act, then fair enough.

 

In what world would you ever think it's not? FFS

 

 

 

 

 

 

This does nothing. It’s the same argument. In what world has it not been a symbolic act? Jesus christ, man. For absolute fucking fucks sake. Taking the match ball after you score a hat trick is to commemorate the event with a symbol from the match. If you scored three or zero goals with the ball you take makes no difference to the intended purpose of taking the match ball.

 

So now you're hanging onto the point that this is inherit? (Which it is, but as I mentioned before, everything else has symbolism to it!)

 

You're contradicting yourself time and time again...

 

Thanks... it's been a pleasure.

 

 

[Kaizero]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

 

The match ball is a symbol commemorating the hat-trick. It’s not hard.

 

 

You're making it about the event - but it's actually about the ball and what you've done with it.

 

 

It’s not, it’s about you scoring a hat trick. The match ball you’re taking home might have been involved in zero of the goals you scored, meaning it’s clearly not about the ball. I’m not saying it once wasn’t about the ball when there still was a one ball system, but that it absolutely is not anymore. Even with the one ball system balls got replaced every now and then and I wager a player scoring a hat trick still took home the ball the match ended with.

 

Hence the ball is a symbol commemorating an event.

 

 

 

If it's now a symbolic act, then fair enough.

 

In what world would you ever think it's not? FFS

 

 

 

 

 

 

This does nothing. It’s the same argument. In what world has it not been a symbolic act? Jesus christ, man. For absolute fucking fucks sake. Taking the match ball after you score a hat trick is to commemorate the event with a symbol from the match. If you scored three or zero goals with the ball you take makes no difference to the intended purpose of taking the match ball.

 

So now you're hanging onto the point that this is inherit? (Which it is, but as I mentioned before, everything else has symbolism to it!)

 

You're contradicting yourself time and time again...

 

Thanks... it's been a pleasure.

 

 

 

Delightfully ironic.

[Stal]

Could I change the subject for a moment as I have a question that I've wanted to understand for ages;

 

Why do players take the ball...kidding...my question is how do football chants get started? I mean like their inception. I see folks on here writing some but how is that transferred to the stands? Especially in the days before the internet and forums such as this one. I've naturally been at the match and joined in ones I knew but I always wondered how they come to be.

[Greg]

Could I change the subject for a moment as I have a question that I've wanted to understand for ages;

 

Why do players take the ball...kidding...my question is how do football chants get started? I mean like their inception. I see folks on here writing some but how is that transferred to the stands? Especially in the days before the internet and forums such as this one. I've naturally been at the match and joined in ones I knew but I always wondered how they come to be.

 

Read this: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/nov/23/terrace-tunes-viral-source-september-chant

[Dinho lad]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

 

The match ball is a symbol commemorating the hat-trick. It’s not hard.

 

 

You're making it about the event - but it's actually about the ball and what you've done with it.

 

 

It’s not, it’s about you scoring a hat trick. The match ball you’re taking home might have been involved in zero of the goals you scored, meaning it’s clearly not about the ball. I’m not saying it once wasn’t about the ball when there still was a one ball system, but that it absolutely is not anymore. Even with the one ball system balls got replaced every now and then and I wager a player scoring a hat trick still took home the ball the match ended with.

 

Hence the ball is a symbol commemorating an event.

 

 

 

If it's now a symbolic act, then fair enough.

 

In what world would you ever think it's not? FFS

 

 

 

 

 

 

This does nothing. It’s the same argument. In what world has it not been a symbolic act? Jesus christ, man. For absolute fucking fucks sake. Taking the match ball after you score a hat trick is to commemorate the event with a symbol from the match. If you scored three or zero goals with the ball you take makes no difference to the intended purpose of taking the match ball.

 

So now you're hanging onto the point that this is inherit? (Which it is, but as I mentioned before, everything else has symbolism to it!)

 

You're contradicting yourself time and time again...

 

Thanks... it's been a pleasure.

 

 

 

Delightfully ironic.

 

How did I contradict myself, then?

 

You mocked me when I touched upon the point that it may no longer symbolic, by asking, sarcastically, when was it ever not symbolic.(And no, you can't mention its 'inherent' nature as clearly I was talking about the act and intention of the player - not the philosophy behind it!)

 

Later, you say oh yes 'I’m not saying it once wasn’t about the ball when there still was a one ball system, but that it absolutely is not anymore'! Time-fucking-waster.

 

Again...this is the impression of you: 

 

 

 

[Stal]

Could I change the subject for a moment as I have a question that I've wanted to understand for ages;

 

Why do players take the ball...kidding...my question is how do football chants get started? I mean like their inception. I see folks on here writing some but how is that transferred to the stands? Especially in the days before the internet and forums such as this one. I've naturally been at the match and joined in ones I knew but I always wondered how they come to be.

 

Read this: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/nov/23/terrace-tunes-viral-source-september-chant

 

That's brilliant, thank you very much!

[Kaizero]

Just stick to why the players do it. WHY?!

 

So fucking what if there are deeper reasons behind it?

 

The match ball is a symbol commemorating the hat-trick. It’s not hard.

 

 

You're making it about the event - but it's actually about the ball and what you've done with it.

 

 

It’s not, it’s about you scoring a hat trick. The match ball you’re taking home might have been involved in zero of the goals you scored, meaning it’s clearly not about the ball. I’m not saying it once wasn’t about the ball when there still was a one ball system, but that it absolutely is not anymore. Even with the one ball system balls got replaced every now and then and I wager a player scoring a hat trick still took home the ball the match ended with.

 

Hence the ball is a symbol commemorating an event.

 

 

 

If it's now a symbolic act, then fair enough.

 

In what world would you ever think it's not? FFS

 

 

 

 

 

 

This does nothing. It’s the same argument. In what world has it not been a symbolic act? Jesus christ, man. For absolute fucking fucks sake. Taking the match ball after you score a hat trick is to commemorate the event with a symbol from the match. If you scored three or zero goals with the ball you take makes no difference to the intended purpose of taking the match ball.

 

So now you're hanging onto the point that this is inherit? (Which it is, but as I mentioned before, everything else has symbolism to it!)

 

You're contradicting yourself time and time again...

 

Thanks... it's been a pleasure.

 

 

 

Delightfully ironic.

 

How did I contradict myself, then?

 

You mocked me when I touched upon the point that it may no longer symbolic, by asking, sarcastically, when was it ever not symbolic.(And no, you can't mention its 'inherent' nature as clearly I was talking about the act and intention of the player - not the philosophy behind it!)

 

Later, you say oh yes 'I’m not saying it once wasn’t about the ball when there still was a one ball system, but that it absolutely is not anymore'! Time-fucking-waster.

 

Again...this is the impression of you: 

 

 

The difference between you and I is that I at least try to stick to the discussion at hand rather than resort to weird personal attacks to deflect from a losing hand.

 

Again, as mentioned, the snippet you've chosen to extract and base a new argument on is, in context, used to exemplify why it's always been a symbolic act. My argument started with "When has it not been a symbolic act?", and it's what I've been arguing the entire time. I conceded something raised by KI, which is that there can be different layers of symbolism attached to something. I'm not disputing that if a ball was the ball that was used for all three goals, it does not have more symbolic meaning for someone. But that was never my argument. My argument was that there's never been a time when taking home the match ball after a hat trick was not a symbolic gesture. You've, for some reason, argued against this even though the post I initially replied to said that it was fair enough if it was a symbolic gesture - which I've time and time again have explained to you, but for some reason you refuse to pick up on it.

 

In simplified terms:

 

Question: When has taking the match ball home after a hat trick ever not been symbolic?

 

Example 1: Taking the match ball home after a hat trick in the one ball era: symbolic.

Example 2: Taking the match ball home after a hat trick in the multi ball era: symbolic.

 

Resolution: It's always been symbolic.

[Deuce]

[Kaizero]

 

I'll lock your face.