Demba Ba (now retired)

[Guest]

It'll be like how the Owen thing was for the first 2 years. All this mention of a "Oooh, he's got a £13m clause, or is it £9m?" and shite like that, and nowt will happen.

[RR15]

Am I missing something here? Has he left?

 

As for “showing him love” we have for the entire season, and will continue to do so if he stays with the club. If he leaves I have full faith in Chatty Mans dad and his team.

 

[stozo]

Pretty sure he's leaving now. It's obviously Ba's team who have leaked that the release clause ends on July 31st. From that you have to assume that they are looking to engineer a move for him.

[nobby_solano]

I do think he's happy here and doesn't want to leave but I can imagine agents bending his ear and gnawing away putting these stories out to unsettle him

[Unbelievable]

I didn't worry much about replacement.  The truth is even if there is no replacement, Marveaux could fill in the hole nicely, arguably better than Ba.  Ba's real value to us is he could also play as striker when Cisse's injured, which means Ba is actually a backup player rather than starting eleven.  It is a lot easier for to find a backup striker.  de Jong is a good investment, Best could do a job as well, or unearthing some gems in Bundesliga or Lique 1 would just cost a few millions.

 

What I worry is the negative effect on Cisse.  The departure of his best buddy, the only mate from Senegal....and also, the money offered by the other club, etc. 

 

Couldn't disagree more that Ba is easily replaceable as you suggest. Here's some facts for you to ponder:

 

- Sylvain Marveaux as a "ready made replacement" at the left side of a front three hasn't been able to play regularly for the last two seasons. It would be foolish to rely on him as a starter next season;

 

- Demba Ba has played the majority of his career in Germany and England at the left of a front three. It is a position he is very familiar with;

 

- Demba Ba has scored 1 in 3 in the Bundesliga and 1 in 2 in the Premiership. No forward with such goalscoring stats is easily replaceable;

 

- Before the African Cup of Nations Demba Ba was on fire for us. We wouldn't have been in contention for European football if it wasn't for him;

 

- De Jong and Best as possible backup striker replacements is laughable. De Jong ("a good investment" FFS?!) is a full Holland international who will go for 10 million or more, and will move to a bigger club than us as first choice striker. Leon Best is nowhere near the level Demba Ba is capable off, nowhere near;

 

- If "unearthing some gems in Bundesliga or Lique 1 would just cost a few millions", why isn't everybody doing it? Who do you have in mind if I may ask?

 

- Demba Ba has been very important for our team spirit this past season. Take Yohan Cabaye's and Papiss Cisse's word for it, not mine;

 

- If Demba Ba were to leave for the conditions in the reported release clause, it would leave us with under 5 million to replace a 1 in 2 striker capable of playing on the left side of a front three and spearheading the attack if required. 5 million doesn't even buy you Jay Rodriguez in today's market.

 

- Money invested in a replacement will not be available to strengthen positions where we need the reinforcements more to push on next season (full back and centre back)

 

Yet your only worry is whether his buddy Papiss will be alright? Ok.

[ponsaelius]

Spot on.

[Zero]

Should I reply point by point or just ignore them all?

[Ryan_Taylor]

People who don't think losing Demba would be a massive blow...

 

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120130203007/fusionfall/images/8/84/GTFO-Meme-Rage-Face.png

[Unbelievable]

Should I reply point by point or just ignore them all?

 

Point by point please. Really interested in your thoughts on the subject.

[madras]

Pretty sure he's leaving now. It's obviously Ba's team who have leaked that the release clause ends on July 31st. From that you have to assume that they are looking to engineer a move for him.

not so sure, if he does then it'd more likely be to spurs (if they are prepared to subsuantially increase what he's offered here). he wants first team football in the position he wants, not guaranteed it here, wouldn't be at chelsea and liverpool would have to take a big hit on carroll (personally think they'll give him another year), man utd's a possible with ferguson liking rooney to be more of a play maker than through the middle striker.

 

then the question is which clubs will want to pay a fee, agents fees, increase his wages with the rumoured medical doubts ?

 

they may be looking to engineer a move, nothing to say clubs will be willing to help it happen though.

[Zero]

 

 

Couldn't disagree more that Ba is easily replaceable as you suggest. Here's some facts for you to ponder:

 

1 - Sylvain Marveaux as a "ready made replacement" at the left side of a front three hasn't been able to play regularly for the last two seasons. It would be foolish to rely on him as a starter next season;

 

2 - Demba Ba has played the majority of his career in Germany and England at the left of a front three. It is a position he is very familiar with;

 

3 - Demba Ba has scored 1 in 3 in the Bundesliga and 1 in 2 in the Premiership. No forward with such goalscoring stats is easily replaceable;

 

4 - Before the African Cup of Nations Demba Ba was on fire for us. We wouldn't have been in contention for European football if it wasn't for him;

 

5 - De Jong and Best as possible backup striker replacements is laughable. De Jong ("a good investment" FFS?!) is a full Holland international who will go for 10 million or more, and will move to a bigger club than us as first choice striker. Leon Best is nowhere near the level Demba Ba is capable off, nowhere near;

 

6 - If "unearthing some gems in Bundesliga or Lique 1 would just cost a few millions", why isn't everybody doing it? Who do you have in mind if I may ask?

 

7 - Demba Ba has been very important for our team spirit this past season. Take Yohan Cabaye's and Papiss Cisse's word for it, not mine;

 

8 - If Demba Ba were to leave for the conditions in the reported release clause, it would leave us with under 5 million to replace a 1 in 2 striker capable of playing on the left side of a front three and spearheading the attack if required. 5 million doesn't even buy you Jay Rodriguez in today's market.

 

9 - Money invested in a replacement will not be available to strengthen positions where we need the reinforcements more to push on next season (full back and centre back)

 

Yet your only worry is whether his buddy Papiss will be alright? Ok.

 

Alright.

 

1.  My original thought is to put Jonas there instead of Marveaux.  We have 2 players who can/should  play on the left and because we have to start Ba, Jonas was moved to the centre and was quite impressive.  Thus what you said is correct, I actually didn't rely on him as a starter, but going forward I do expect him to be a starter.  I rate Marveaux and he is more than a bench sub.

 

2.  True.  But back in Germany, he wasn't instructed to take so many defensive responsibilities. He is allowed to use most of his energy to attack.  You may argue that it is due to tiredness after the whole season and the African Cup, but it is obvious that his game has dropped a lot during the last 10 matches.  It is subjective but I don't think he really perform well on the left during attack.  I appreciate his effort on defense though.  In conclusion, I "accept" Ba to play on the left, but that is not something I am very impressed.  That is just personal opinion.  You can say you are very happy for his performance there.  I can't.

 

3.  That's why I said he should be our striker.  He scored none after moving to the left, and didn't create much. Normally when you have 2 good strikers you should go with a 4-4-2.  We actually tried, but it didn't work. They form a poor partnership, and by having only 2 central midfielders we revert back to hoof hoof hoof. I think no one here would want to try 4-4-2 again at this moment, and so the only position for Ba is on the left.  You probably have to blame Pardew for not able to work out a 4-4-2, but the reality is we couldn't utilize Ba's ability as a striker now.  I really rate Ba as a striker, but he has to play inside the penalty area instead of rushing back and forth on the left.  That's actually Jonas work.

 

4.  Yea, strongly agree.

 

5.  So you are saying de Jong as too good to be a back up and Best is too bad to be?  So who are you looking for?

Anyway, you really have to discount the quality of strikers produced from Holland.  Too many flops there.  All the strikers there score for fun. Kuyt was top scorer before he moved to England, and you could see how "good" he is at scoring in EPL.  Would you feel comfort to start de Jong now, even if he cost as much as 10m?  No I don't.

 

6.  Everybody starts doing it after we capture Cisse, Cabaye and Ben Arfa.  Well, the latter two probably should not use the word "unearth".  Anyway, historically the transfer fees in Bundesliga and Lique 1 are not high.  That's why Bayern can always buy players cheaply from other local competitors, and why Arsenal can sign Sagna and Nasri with transfer fees under 5m.  The trend is uprising though after Bayern spend so much on Gomez and Neuer, but still with better scouting we should be able to find a few more.

 

Actually I rate Roux, the one we linked last summer.  Ultimately we signed Cisse, which is better, but if we have chance we should try to snap him up. 

 

7 & 8 & 9.  Am I saying I want him to leave asap?

We could only prepare for his departure, man.  Certainly the best for us is he reject all those offers and stay here.  But say if you are Ba would you stay?  You are probably asking for the last contract in your career.  You rely on this for your remaining life.  The current club does not want to take the risk, and you could earn an extra 10m if you choose to leave (2.5m from transfer fee, 7.5m for extra salaries assuming he got 80k 4 years contract).  Would you?

 

I know he will leave.  I am just explaining it is not a disaster in terms of our performance on the pitch, assuming that we are playing with our starting eleven.  I am not saying we are better without him. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I've always said I don't think Ba is ideal for the left attacker slot, whether he played there in Germany or not. We're in a difficult position where we don't really have a position that he's ideal in, where he can start every week.

 

He's a class player though, and he should stay because we will need a lot of good attackers in all competitions next season. Whether or not we can promise him enough to keep him is another matter though.

[Zero]

Just for everyone's reference, simple maths.

 

Assuming he is on 40k per week now as reported, currently he costs the club 40k * 52 weeks= 2m per annum

With his current contract ending on 2014, the remaining costs is 4m.

 

Now, if he could get a 4 year contract elsewhere with 80k per week (he could ask for this since the transfer fee is too low)

then he would cost 80k * 52 weeks = 4m per annum, which is 16m totally.

 

That's why the club would not offer Ba a new contract to take away the clause.  The club have to spend 10m to retain his services, and this investment would become zero value if his knee get an injury.

[ExiledGeordie]

 

Doesn't he have a pretty high bonus rate for games he plays (relating to the knee injury) above his basic salary which means recently he's been earning atleast 50k a week or more?

[TheHoob]

Hasn't Pardew said several times that he isn't motivated by money?

 

Suppose that could all change when you are looking at some of the sums mentioned in this thread though 

[Unbelievable]

 

 

Couldn't disagree more that Ba is easily replaceable as you suggest. Here's some facts for you to ponder:

 

1 - Sylvain Marveaux as a "ready made replacement" at the left side of a front three hasn't been able to play regularly for the last two seasons. It would be foolish to rely on him as a starter next season;

 

2 - Demba Ba has played the majority of his career in Germany and England at the left of a front three. It is a position he is very familiar with;

 

3 - Demba Ba has scored 1 in 3 in the Bundesliga and 1 in 2 in the Premiership. No forward with such goalscoring stats is easily replaceable;

 

4 - Before the African Cup of Nations Demba Ba was on fire for us. We wouldn't have been in contention for European football if it wasn't for him;

 

5 - De Jong and Best as possible backup striker replacements is laughable. De Jong ("a good investment" FFS?!) is a full Holland international who will go for 10 million or more, and will move to a bigger club than us as first choice striker. Leon Best is nowhere near the level Demba Ba is capable off, nowhere near;

 

6 - If "unearthing some gems in Bundesliga or Lique 1 would just cost a few millions", why isn't everybody doing it? Who do you have in mind if I may ask?

 

7 - Demba Ba has been very important for our team spirit this past season. Take Yohan Cabaye's and Papiss Cisse's word for it, not mine;

 

8 - If Demba Ba were to leave for the conditions in the reported release clause, it would leave us with under 5 million to replace a 1 in 2 striker capable of playing on the left side of a front three and spearheading the attack if required. 5 million doesn't even buy you Jay Rodriguez in today's market.

 

9 - Money invested in a replacement will not be available to strengthen positions where we need the reinforcements more to push on next season (full back and centre back)

 

Yet your only worry is whether his buddy Papiss will be alright? Ok.

 

Alright.

 

1.  My original thought is to put Jonas there instead of Marveaux.  We have 2 players who can/should  play on the left and because we have to start Ba, Jonas was moved to the centre and was quite impressive.  Thus what you said is correct, I actually didn't rely on him as a starter, but going forward I do expect him to be a starter.  I rate Marveaux and he is more than a bench sub.

 

Why do we have to start Ba? FWIW I do rate Marveaux highly, but we cannot rely on him to be a starter every match; we need a squad, and he is a valuable part of that, as will Ba hopefully be.

 

2.  True.  But back in Germany, he wasn't instructed to take so many defensive responsibilities. He is allowed to use most of his energy to attack.  You may argue that it is due to tiredness after the whole season and the African Cup, but it is obvious that his game has dropped a lot during the last 10 matches.  It is subjective but I don't think he really perform well on the left during attack.  I appreciate his effort on defense though.  In conclusion, I "accept" Ba to play on the left, but that is not something I am very impressed.  That is just personal opinion.  You can say you are very happy for his performance there.  I can't.

 

I don't think it is arguable whether he was tired after the ACON, it was clear for all and sundry he was knackered. I wasn't happy with his performance in those last 10 matches, whether it was on the left or through the middle, and that is my point exactly. There is more evidence to suggest he is capable of playing on the left side of a front three and doing it well than there is of the contrary. 10 matches for f***'s sake! After the phenomenal first half of the season he's had. Cut the guy some slack.

 

3.  That's why I said he should be our striker.  He scored none after moving to the left, and didn't create much. Normally when you have 2 good strikers you should go with a 4-4-2.  We actually tried, but it didn't work. They form a poor partnership, and by having only 2 central midfielders we revert back to hoof hoof hoof. I think no one here would want to try 4-4-2 again at this moment, and so the only position for Ba is on the left.  You probably have to blame Pardew for not able to work out a 4-4-2, but the reality is we couldn't utilize Ba's ability as a striker now.  I really rate Ba as a striker, but he has to play inside the penalty area instead of rushing back and forth on the left.  That's actually Jonas work.

 

Again, how many matches have Cisse and Ba played together, and more specifically in a 4-4-2? Far, far too early to say they are incapable of forging a great partnership or not, especially after we've seen what they're capable off individually as strikers.

 

4.  Yea, strongly agree.

 

5.  So you are saying de Jong as too good to be a back up and Best is too bad to be?  So who are you looking for?

Anyway, you really have to discount the quality of strikers produced from Holland.  Too many flops there.  All the strikers there score for fun. Kuyt was top scorer before he moved to England, and you could see how "good" he is at scoring in EPL.  Would you feel comfort to start de Jong now, even if he cost as much as 10m?  No I don't.

 

You're completely missing the point. I'm not even going to debate the quality of Dutch strikers with you because I am naturally biased but I would argue that at least 4 of them wouldn't look out of place in a Premiership strikers top 20 list (Van Persie, Van Nistelrooij, Bergkamp, Hasselbaink). However, nothing of what you're saying will have any bearing on a) how much Twente will be looking to get for him - to them he is worth at least 10 million and they will get it too, so arguing about the possibility of him becoming a flop because the league is not up to Premiership standard will hardly impress them and b) De Jong's own ambition. Why would he entertain the idea of becoming a backup player here when he will be a starter for bigger clubs than us?

 

So as far as your question goes: if you're not comfortable paying what he's worth and playing him as a starter, then you might as well forget about the whole idea of signing him altogether and leave one of the other clubs that are after him (Spurs are reportedly in talks) sign him

 

6.  Everybody starts doing it after we capture Cisse, Cabaye and Ben Arfa.  Well, the latter two probably should not use the word "unearth".  Anyway, historically the transfer fees in Bundesliga and Lique 1 are not high.  That's why Bayern can always buy players cheaply from other local competitors, and why Arsenal can sign Sagna and Nasri with transfer fees under 5m.  The trend is uprising though after Bayern spend so much on Gomez and Neuer, but still with better scouting we should be able to find a few more.

 

Actually I rate Roux, the one we linked last summer.  Ultimately we signed Cisse, which is better, but if we have chance we should try to snap him up. 

 

Our recruitment policy has been absolutely amazing lately, but to suggest it will be easy to replace a proven Premiership striker with a budget of 5 million is madness.

 

7 & 8 & 9.  Am I saying I want him to leave asap?

We could only prepare for his departure, man.  Certainly the best for us is he reject all those offers and stay here.  But say if you are Ba would you stay?  You are probably asking for the last contract in your career.  You rely on this for your remaining life.  The current club does not want to take the risk, and you could earn an extra 10m if you choose to leave (2.5m from transfer fee, 7.5m for extra salaries assuming he got 80k 4 years contract).  Would you?

 

No I wouldn't, and that's fair enough. I think Ba wants to stay as he likes it here and we're on the up, but the financial side of things needs to be sorted, and as you rightly suggest that may be the reason he ultimately leaves us this summer. Again however, this has absolutely no bearing on your ludicrous claim that he will be easy to replace as he is just our backup striker.

 

I know he will leave.  I am just explaining it is not a disaster in terms of our performance on the pitch, assuming that we are playing with our starting eleven.  I am not saying we are better without him. 

 

It's hardly set in stone that he will leave. I hope the club don't take your blasse approach to his contract position though, and fight tooth and nail to keep him. It may not be a disaster if he leaves, but neither would it necessarily be if any of our other important first team players like Colo, Cabaye or Tiote did. This doesn't take away from the fact that I'd much rather they'd stay and we didn't have to try and replace them.

[Unbelievable]

Just for everyone's reference, simple maths.

 

Assuming he is on 40k per week now as reported, currently he costs the club 40k * 52 weeks= 2m per annum

With his current contract ending on 2014, the remaining costs is 4m.

 

Now, if he could get a 4 year contract elsewhere with 80k per week (he could ask for this since the transfer fee is too low)

then he would cost 80k * 52 weeks = 4m per annum, which is 16m totally.

 

That's why the club would not offer Ba a new contract to take away the clause.  The club have to spend 10m to retain his services, and this investment would become zero value if his knee get an injury.

 

It's a good thing then that a replacement will be available for free, won't want to be rewarded a decent wage and is guaranteed to never be injured.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Losing to Ba to what is now a rival would be a crushing blow theres doubt about that but if we were to sign Luuk De Jong as his replacement then the blow that we will feel is suddenly a reaction filled with optimism.

 

If Ba goes then we have to replace him with someone of equal quality which will be very difficult if we can then happy days if we cant then we better hope that Cisse can do what Ba did in the first half of the season consistently and a wide player does the Ba job of the 2nd half of the season.

 

The only positive would be is if we are to continue with 4-3-3 we are not replacing Ba the CF we would be replacing Ba the left winger.

 

Which would be a lot easier than replacing Ba the CF.

[Cajun]

Unbelievable!

 

Can't believe Ba's reputation has so drastically declined for a few. Marveaux has played about 60 games in his whole career iirc and Jonas in a front 3?

 

Not long until Morten Gamst Pedersen is suggested as he plays on the left.

[Zero]

Continue here.

 

1.  We don't have to start Ba?  So you mean he would stay even if we don't give him a new contract and do not guarantee him a starting place?  He is willing to give up the clause, give up the money, and stay here as a substitute.  Serious? A guaranteed starting place is the minimum requirement to persuade him to stay.

 

2&3.  True, too soon to tell.  But sadly we can't let everything getting 100% clear before we made any decision.  The decision of retaining Ba has to be done now.

 

5.  OK I would give you that, but just curious if you say de Jong would not settle for starting from bench, why would you think Ba would accept that? And in addition, even if Spurs signed him I don't think Spurs would start him immediately. Every foreign players should have a few months for adapting the EPL, just like what we did to Santon. 

 

6.  If you have to include everything, then the ultimate question is either:

a.  Spend 16m on Ba with no resale value (either he got injured or just getting old)

b.  Spend as much as 21m (5m+cost saved above) on a replacement that have resale value after a few years (be realistic, Ashley won't invest all the money back, I personally take it as 15m, salaries included)

 

No brainer for Ashley.

 

I never said sth like "It's a good thing then that a replacement will be available for free, won't want to be rewarded a decent wage and is guaranteed to never be injured.".

 

But then what I said is, if you regard Ba as a left winger, then he is really easy to be replaced.  On the other hand, he couldn't be our first choice striker and has to sit on the bench until Cisse got injured.  He also has Africa Cup to play and would be out for more than 1 month next season.  If we have to spend so much on him just for a "backup", why not go to plan b and find a better replacement.  Back to point 6, the money we saved is not only the 5m received from his disposal, but also his retaining cost and the resale value afterwards.  Cisse's whole package (transfer fee + salaries) almost cost the same, you know?

 

 

[Unbelievable]

Continue here.

 

1.  We don't have to start Ba?  So you mean he would stay even if we don't give him a new contract and do not guarantee him a starting place?  He is willing to give up the clause, give up the money, and stay here as a substitute.  Serious? A guaranteed starting place is the minimum requirement to persuade him to stay.

 

Nonsense. We don't have to persuade him to stay, he's under contract first and foremost, and I highly doubt anybody is guaranteed a starting place. To leave one of your best players out of the starting 11 is a different thing altogether though. You'd have to be barking mad too.

 

2&3.  True, too soon to tell.  But sadly we can't let everything getting 100% clear before we made any decision.  The decision of retaining Ba has to be done now.

 

What are you on about man? We don't have a decision to make regarding retaining Ba, unless we are contemplating offering a new contract and then it will be on our terms. First and foremost we are dependent on other clubs triggering his release clause or not and what Demba Ba himself wants.

 

5.  OK I would give you that, but just curious if you say de Jong would not settle for starting from bench, why would you think Ba would accept that? And in addition, even if Spurs signed him I don't think Spurs would start him immediately. Every foreign players should have a few months for adapting the EPL, just like what we did to Santon. 

 

You're twisting what I said to make it meet your opinion. I've never advocated signing Luuk de Jong as a backup striker to replace Ba, you did. Neither have I suggested Ba shouldn't be in the first team; again that was you. You seem to be a thoroughly disturbed individual if you cannot remember what you said and what other said.

 

6.  If you have to include everything, then the ultimate question is either:

a.  Spend 12m on Ba with no resale value (either he got injured or just getting old)

b.  Spend as much as 10m (5m+cost saved above) on a replacement that have resale value after a few years

 

No brainer for Ashley.

 

Your figures are completely made up (where's the 12 million to keep Ba from?), but I will entertain you with a reply nonetheless. Option a will cost us nothing outside our contractual obligations (wage and bonuses) to Ba, for which we get a proven goal scorer in return. If he has another season like this one and the reports are correct regarding the release clause we may well be able to sell him next season for more than what we'd get now.

Regarding option b I would like to know what proven top class Premiership striker (or equivalent) we could get playing for us for the next 2 years for an outlay of 10 million total (transfer fee, agent fees, wages, etc)?

 

I never said sth like "It's a good thing then that a replacement will be available for free, won't want to be rewarded a decent wage and is guaranteed to never be injured.".

 

But then what I said is, if you regard Ba as a left winger, then he is really easy to be replaced.  On the other hand, he couldn't be our first choice striker and has to sit on the bench until Cisse got injured.  He also has Africa Cup to play and would be out for more than 1 month next season.  If we have to spend so much on him just for a "backup", why not go to plan b and find a better replacement.  Back to point 6, the money we saved is not only the 5m received from his disposal, but also his retaining cost and the resale value afterwards.  Cisse's who package (transfer fee + salaries) almost cost the same, you know?

 

I know what you said and I still think it's dead wrong. What gives you the idea that the cost for Cisse is similar to Ba's. I make it roughly 8 million for Ba during his 3 year contract (2 million signing on fee, 2 million a year in wages based on your 40k/week estimation). Cisse cost that much in transfer fee alone. Including agent fees and wages you're looking at double what Ba cost. Now 8 million or so may seem like pocket money to you, but it sure looks like a lot of money to me.

 

 

I see you've cooked your figures even further. How do you get to 16 million for keeping Ba for crying out loud..?

[Zero]

Continue here.

 

1.  We don't have to start Ba?  So you mean he would stay even if we don't give him a new contract and do not guarantee him a starting place?  He is willing to give up the clause, give up the money, and stay here as a substitute.  Serious? A guaranteed starting place is the minimum requirement to persuade him to stay.

 

Nonsense. We don't have to persuade him to stay, he's under contract first and foremost, and I highly doubt anybody is guaranteed a starting place. To leave one of your best players out of the starting 11 is a different thing altogether though. You'd have to be barking mad too.

 

2&3.  True, too soon to tell.  But sadly we can't let everything getting 100% clear before we made any decision.  The decision of retaining Ba has to be done now.

 

What are you on about man? We don't have a decision to make regarding retaining Ba, unless we are contemplating offering a new contract and then it will be on our terms. First and foremost we are dependent on other clubs triggering his release clause or not and what Demba Ba himself wants.

 

5.  OK I would give you that, but just curious if you say de Jong would not settle for starting from bench, why would you think Ba would accept that? And in addition, even if Spurs signed him I don't think Spurs would start him immediately. Every foreign players should have a few months for adapting the EPL, just like what we did to Santon. 

 

You're twisting what I said to make it meet your opinion. I've never advocated signing Luuk de Jong as a backup striker to replace Ba, you did. Neither have I suggested Ba shouldn't be in the first team; again that was you. You seem to be a thoroughly disturbed individual if you cannot remember what you said and what other said.

 

6.  If you have to include everything, then the ultimate question is either:

a.  Spend 12m on Ba with no resale value (either he got injured or just getting old)

b.  Spend as much as 10m (5m+cost saved above) on a replacement that have resale value after a few years

 

No brainer for Ashley.

 

Your figures are completely made up (where's the 12 million to keep Ba from?), but I will entertain you with a reply nonetheless. Option a will cost us nothing outside our contractual obligations (wage and bonuses) to Ba, for which we get a proven goal scorer in return. If he has another season like this one and the reports are correct regarding the release clause we may well be able to sell him next season for more than what we'd get now.

Regarding option b I would like to know what proven top class Premiership striker (or equivalent) we could get playing for us for the next 2 years for an outlay of 10 million total (transfer fee, agent fees, wages, etc)?

 

I never said sth like "It's a good thing then that a replacement will be available for free, won't want to be rewarded a decent wage and is guaranteed to never be injured.".

 

But then what I said is, if you regard Ba as a left winger, then he is really easy to be replaced.  On the other hand, he couldn't be our first choice striker and has to sit on the bench until Cisse got injured.  He also has Africa Cup to play and would be out for more than 1 month next season.  If we have to spend so much on him just for a "backup", why not go to plan b and find a better replacement.  Back to point 6, the money we saved is not only the 5m received from his disposal, but also his retaining cost and the resale value afterwards.  Cisse's who package (transfer fee + salaries) almost cost the same, you know?

 

I know what you said and I still think it's dead wrong. What gives you the idea that the cost for Cisse is similar to Ba's. I make it roughly 8 million for Ba during his 3 year contract (2 million signing on fee, 2 million a year in wages based on your 40k/week estimation). Cisse cost that much in transfer fee alone. Including agent fees and wages you're looking at double what Ba cost. Now 8 million or so may seem like pocket money to you, but it sure looks like a lot of money to me.

 

 

I see you've cooked your figures even further. How do you get to 16 million for keeping Ba for crying out loud..?

 

1.  "We don't have to persuade him to stay, he's under contract first and foremost"

"I hope the club don't take your blasse approach to his contract position though, and fight tooth and nail to keep him."

 

Sorry, I can't understand your words.  And in addition, if football is simply playing the 11 best players in a team, I would stop watching it immediately.

 

2.  So you are saying no club have come in and trigger the clause yet, and so at this moment we have nth to do, and do not need to evaluate the decision now? Man. Do you ever make any plan in your life?

Obviously once an offer comes in, we have to make the decision. You can pray to God that nth happens and so no decision have to be made.

 

5.  "Why do we have to start Ba?"

If you don't mean Ba should play as subs, I apologize.  But seems like you really forget what you have said.

 

6.  Option a is we matched the offer that was expected to be offered by other clubs.  If you don't know maths, I teach you, 16-4=12.  Again you assume that nothing will happen this summer and Ba and his agent would just do nothing.  I appreciate your optimism.  In this case no discussion here is needed anymore, since nothing will happen.  Great.

 

Option b, well, still need proven top class Premiership striker nowadays? Isn't we proved that it is better to sign players elsewhere?

 

Why would we actively sell Ba? I don't understand why you keep on accusing this on me. Of course we won't. The problem is now everyone is expecting a club to come in and trigger the release clause. What else can we do, except to match the contract offered by other clubs? My point is it doesn't worth to do. Get it?

 

No, you don't know.  My point is we need to spend an extra 12m in order to match the other clubs' offer to persuade Ba to stay, I don't recommend it, and I don't think Ashley would do it. The EXTRA cost for retaining Ba is 12m, and if you include the 4m salaries saved and the 5m transfer fees received, then totally we would have 21m to spend on another player.  This is the true cost of option A.  Cisse's transfer fees and wages totally cost us about 14-15m.  I show this because I wanna let you know the money saved can really spend on a adequate replacement because the amount is really huge.

 

[Zero]

Continue here.

 

1.  We don't have to start Ba?  So you mean he would stay even if we don't give him a new contract and do not guarantee him a starting place?  He is willing to give up the clause, give up the money, and stay here as a substitute.  Serious? A guaranteed starting place is the minimum requirement to persuade him to stay.

 

Nonsense. We don't have to persuade him to stay, he's under contract first and foremost, and I highly doubt anybody is guaranteed a starting place. To leave one of your best players out of the starting 11 is a different thing altogether though. You'd have to be barking mad too.

 

2&3.  True, too soon to tell.  But sadly we can't let everything getting 100% clear before we made any decision.  The decision of retaining Ba has to be done now.

 

What are you on about man? We don't have a decision to make regarding retaining Ba, unless we are contemplating offering a new contract and then it will be on our terms. First and foremost we are dependent on other clubs triggering his release clause or not and what Demba Ba himself wants.

 

5.  OK I would give you that, but just curious if you say de Jong would not settle for starting from bench, why would you think Ba would accept that? And in addition, even if Spurs signed him I don't think Spurs would start him immediately. Every foreign players should have a few months for adapting the EPL, just like what we did to Santon. 

 

You're twisting what I said to make it meet your opinion. I've never advocated signing Luuk de Jong as a backup striker to replace Ba, you did. Neither have I suggested Ba shouldn't be in the first team; again that was you. You seem to be a thoroughly disturbed individual if you cannot remember what you said and what other said.

 

6.  If you have to include everything, then the ultimate question is either:

a.  Spend 12m on Ba with no resale value (either he got injured or just getting old)

b.  Spend as much as 10m (5m+cost saved above) on a replacement that have resale value after a few years

 

No brainer for Ashley.

 

Your figures are completely made up (where's the 12 million to keep Ba from?), but I will entertain you with a reply nonetheless. Option a will cost us nothing outside our contractual obligations (wage and bonuses) to Ba, for which we get a proven goal scorer in return. If he has another season like this one and the reports are correct regarding the release clause we may well be able to sell him next season for more than what we'd get now.

Regarding option b I would like to know what proven top class Premiership striker (or equivalent) we could get playing for us for the next 2 years for an outlay of 10 million total (transfer fee, agent fees, wages, etc)?

 

I never said sth like "It's a good thing then that a replacement will be available for free, won't want to be rewarded a decent wage and is guaranteed to never be injured.".

 

But then what I said is, if you regard Ba as a left winger, then he is really easy to be replaced.  On the other hand, he couldn't be our first choice striker and has to sit on the bench until Cisse got injured.  He also has Africa Cup to play and would be out for more than 1 month next season.  If we have to spend so much on him just for a "backup", why not go to plan b and find a better replacement.  Back to point 6, the money we saved is not only the 5m received from his disposal, but also his retaining cost and the resale value afterwards.  Cisse's who package (transfer fee + salaries) almost cost the same, you know?

 

I know what you said and I still think it's dead wrong. What gives you the idea that the cost for Cisse is similar to Ba's. I make it roughly 8 million for Ba during his 3 year contract (2 million signing on fee, 2 million a year in wages based on your 40k/week estimation). Cisse cost that much in transfer fee alone. Including agent fees and wages you're looking at double what Ba cost. Now 8 million or so may seem like pocket money to you, but it sure looks like a lot of money to me.

 

 

I see you've cooked your figures even further. How do you get to 16 million for keeping Ba for crying out loud..?

Just for everyone's reference, simple maths.

 

Assuming he is on 40k per week now as reported, currently he costs the club 40k * 52 weeks= 2m per annum

With his current contract ending on 2014, the remaining costs is 4m.

 

Now, if he could get a 4 year contract elsewhere with 80k per week (he could ask for this since the transfer fee is too low)

then he would cost 80k * 52 weeks = 4m per annum, which is 16m totally.

 

That's why the club would not offer Ba a new contract to take away the clause.  The club have to spend 10m to retain his services, and this investment would become zero value if his knee get an injury.

[Mick]

People who don't think losing Demba would be a massive blow...

 

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120130203007/fusionfall/images/8/84/GTFO-Meme-Rage-Face.png

[High Five o]

FFS, people talk like we are going to miss a regular squad player.

Ba was immense first half of the season, second half he had a drop in form.

But we should do what we can to keep him.

 

We need to build on what we have, next season we are in Europe, and hopefully a cup run.

He will be very important player for us, loads of matches.

Maybe we can afford to give him a rest during the season to!

 

Good replacement or not, Ba need to stay imo.

 

How anyone can say its ok that he leaves is fucking mental.

We need to KEEP our best players.