Demba Ba (now retired)

[madras]

Did we have all this over analysing tactics stuff when Ferdinand and Shearer were upfront together?

yes we did as we never looked as good as we did the season before.

[Jack Flash]

Did we have all this over analysing tactics stuff when Ferdinand and Shearer were upfront together?

yes we did as we never looked as good as we did the season before.

 

Didn't they get about 50 goals between them that season?

 

Keegan leaving in January probably didn't help either.

[Mole_Toonfan]

4-4-2 doesn't have to be hoofball, as we will probably see when we phase out Williamson and Simpson.

 

For some reason I cannot imagine a backline of 'Santon Coloccini Douglas* Debuchy*' being set out to contain teams and hit it long.

 

*The style of players we are looking to bring in atleast.

 

No it doesn't, but 4-3-3 allows you to keep the ball better and have a better balance between attack and defense. Not to mention it suits Cisse, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Jonas etc etc a lot more.

 

As England showed at the Euros showed 4-4-2 is fine without the ball, but in possession you lack options to go forward properly which is where 4-3-3 excels.

[ponsaelius]

It's not really that confusing. Most people think we looked much better the small period we played the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 lark than we did playing 4-4-2.

 

I don't mind 4-4-2 but I don't think it suits any of our players that well.

[Tiresias]

It's not really that confusing. Most people think we looked much better the small period we played the 4-3-3/4-2-3-1 lark than we did playing 4-4-2.

 

I don't mind 4-4-2 but I don't think it suits any of our players that well.

 

This. Nowt wrong with the 4-4-2 when we want two strikers against a weak defence, but we looked better keeping the ball at our feet with 3 in the middle and Ben Arfa pushed further up.

[Skirge]

Demba had plenty of goal scoring opportunities in the 4-3-3 system, he just did not take them, I get he prefers to be more central any striker would but it does not mean he can't have a great season playing wide left in a front three.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Demba had plenty of goal scoring opportunities in the 4-3-3 system, he just did not take them, I get he prefers to be more central any striker would but it does not mean he can't have a great season playing wide left in a front three.

 

Agree, he was close to getting a few goals towards the end. Looking forward to seeing how he does this season, sure he'll be fine.

[madras]

Did we have all this over analysing tactics stuff when Ferdinand and Shearer were upfront together?

yes we did as we never looked as good as we did the season before.

 

Didn't they get about 50 goals between them that season?

 

Keegan leaving in January probably didn't help either.

they got goals, we never looked as good as the season before though. keegan left after we'd just stopped an eight game spell without a win playing our worst football in 4 years.

[ponsaelius]

None of of our wingers apart from maybe Marveaux (haven't seen enough yet) are particularly good at the traditional wingplay stuff. Ben Arfa looked far better pushed forward, cutting in without the defensive responsibility and Jonas looked IMO more at home when he doesn't have the creative burden on his shoulders. If we had two flying wingers on either side who's strength was putting crosses in you could see the benefit of going 4-4-2 more.

 

It also freed up Cabaye in midfield more. As good as he is at the defensive side of the game you don't want to limit him.

[Guest Archie]

I remember how fans of his previous clubs told me that Ba was a good player but ultimately a mercenary. Makes me a bit reluctant to embrace him fully.

Given his knee and fitness levels I'd say Newcastle is a good fit for him, but it seems like he is the sort of player who is always on the move.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I think Marveaux is much more suited to a 4-3-3 as well, either as one of the central three or as the left forward.

[madras]

I think Marveaux is much more suited to a 4-3-3 as well, either as one of the central three or as the left forward.

i agree, though i have to stress again as debuchy (or similar) is the key as it means ben arfa/marveaux/jonas or whoever need not play so much of an orthadox wide role out there.

[Mole_Toonfan]

I think Marveaux is much more suited to a 4-3-3 as well, either as one of the central three or as the left forward.

 

Majority of the squad is quite frankly.

[Guest Archie]

We no'w have two good strikers, its not like we have to shoehorn them in together. Plenty of games to go around..

[Tooj]

We ended up playing hoofball because of Williamson and Simpson. I think it's that simple. Get Douglas and Debuchy in and i'm confident that 4-4-2 won't mean hoofball.

 

Yet they were both playing the 4-3-3 as well and we never resorted to hooftball using that.

[Tiresias]

It's about having players constantly available to pass to, which means playing more compact. I guess Pards is concentrating on passing in training but playing a passing game with 4-4-2 is harder than with 4-3-3 because of numbers of opposing players in zones compared to number of other team. Wigan destroyed us with midfield numbers in the middle of our run when Pards couldn't quite settle on 4-3-3 so shifted us back to 4-4-2.

 

of course there is 3-5-2...

[Kanj]

I'm just happy to see he wants to stay. I'll let a full preseason with Cisse, the coaching staff and my trust in Pards to get the formation right, whatever it may be.

[Guest Realist]

We ended up playing hoofball because of Williamson and Simpson. I think it's that simple. Get Douglas and Debuchy in and i'm confident that 4-4-2 won't mean hoofball.

 

Yet they were both playing the 4-3-3 as well and we never resorted to hooftball using that.

Never.   I think the style of football we played under each system is being grossly exaggerated.

[Tiresias]

think that's fair, point but we did some very poor footy at times and our posession stats weren't great.

[Hanshithispantz]

4-4-2 doesn't have to be hoofball, as we will probably see when we phase out Williamson and Simpson.

 

For some reason I cannot imagine a backline of 'Santon Coloccini Douglas* Debuchy*' being set out to contain teams and hit it long.

 

*The style of players we are looking to bring in atleast.

 

No it doesn't, but 4-3-3 allows you to keep the ball better and have a better balance between attack and defense. Not to mention it suits Cisse, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Jonas etc etc a lot more.

 

As England showed at the Euros showed 4-4-2 is fine without the ball, but in possession you lack options to go forward properly which is where 4-3-3 excels.

There have been many teams in the history of football who have been fucking sublime going forwards playing a 4-4-2 system. We were one of them.

 

It depends on our personnel next year but there's nothing wrong with playing 2 strikers up top, and you certainly don't "lack options". We aren't Barcelona and we aren't going to try and monopolise possession.

[Mole_Toonfan]

4-4-2 doesn't have to be hoofball, as we will probably see when we phase out Williamson and Simpson.

 

For some reason I cannot imagine a backline of 'Santon Coloccini Douglas* Debuchy*' being set out to contain teams and hit it long.

 

*The style of players we are looking to bring in atleast.

 

No it doesn't, but 4-3-3 allows you to keep the ball better and have a better balance between attack and defense. Not to mention it suits Cisse, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Jonas etc etc a lot more.

 

As England showed at the Euros showed 4-4-2 is fine without the ball, but in possession you lack options to go forward properly which is where 4-3-3 excels.

There have been many teams in the history of football who have been f***ing sublime going forwards playing a 4-4-2 system. We were one of them.

 

It depends on our personnel next year but there's nothing wrong with playing 2 strikers up top, and you certainly don't "lack options". We aren't Barcelona and we aren't going to try and monopolise possession.

 

History of football is irrelevant. In Today's game a lot of teams play 3 in midfield so it's only natural that they would keep possession better as they have more options.

 

The main reason we struggled with possession for most of last season was because we played 4-4-2. Again the team's in the Euro's that played 4-4-2 struggled to keep possession it's no coincidence it's just not a system designed to keep possession.

 

Besides all that is irrelevant, i'm arguing the point of 4-3-3 because i feel the majority of our player's suit it more than 4-4-2. If we had flying wingers and fullbacks who don't treat the ball like a bomb is going to explode at their feet then i'd think differently but we don't.

 

Doesn't mean we shouldn't play 4-4-2 at all, depending on the situation and opposition we should switch up our tactics. Just that 4-3-3 suit's the majority of the squad the most and quite frankly should be the main system we use.

 

Regardless if it doesn't suit Demba.

[Yorkie]

God it'd be so fucking frustrating if we never saw the 4-3-3 again. Six wins on the bounce, man. Not just that, but it became abundantly clear that it suited all of our best players.

[Tiresias]

The Stoke game Cabaye completely dominated in the attacking midfield role, was immense.

[Jayson]

Besides all that is irrelevant, i'm arguing the point of 4-3-3 because i feel the majority of our player's suit it more than 4-4-2. If we had flying wingers and fullbacks who don't treat the ball like a bomb is going to explode at their feet then i'd think differently but we don't.

 

We'll be going into next season with Ben Arfa, Marveaux, Santon, Jonas & hopefully Debuchy. We could have some of the best flanks in the league.

 

Anyway, trust in Pards. From all his interviews & our general form etc, he seems very aware of our strengths and weaknesses last season. Hes not going to go with & stay at 4-4-2 if it doesnt work, theres no reason to worry about it.

[James]

History is being reinvented.

 

During that great spell towards the back end we were alternating formations throughout the match 442 443 4231 because we had that flexibility.

 

We beat Swansea and Chelsea playing a more rigid 442 though.

 

And Wigan whipped us when we started out playing 4231.