Mike Ashley

[Unbelievable]

I find plenty to criticise Ashley for, without criticising him for what he might or might not do.

 

I always assume he's going to do what benefits him and sorts direct the most and Newcastle united second.

 

In terms of spending club earnings, Ashley, SD and NUFC all benefit greatest from the club investing all it can in players and coaching.

 

 

I agree. I just don't think that's how he will see it, or he would have started doing it already.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

He could take any profits as dividends, but they're taxable above quite a low threshold. Guess he could also repay some of the remaining debt. It will be interesting to see what be does on that.

[Happy Face]

I find plenty to criticise Ashley for, without criticising him for what he might or might not do.

 

I always assume he's going to do what benefits him and sorts direct the most and Newcastle united second.

 

In terms of spending club earnings, Ashley, SD and NUFC all benefit greatest from the club investing all it can in players and coaching.

 

 

I agree. I just don't think that's how he will see it, or he would have started doing it already.

Paying off his £29m first would back you up.

 

What reason was there for him to repay that beyond a stubborn principle that he had said he wasn't putting any more in after the Keegan affair?

 

I think he'll stick to that though and stop repayments with the £29m satisfied.

[Unbelievable]

I find plenty to criticise Ashley for, without criticising him for what he might or might not do.

 

I always assume he's going to do what benefits him and sorts direct the most and Newcastle united second.

 

In terms of spending club earnings, Ashley, SD and NUFC all benefit greatest from the club investing all it can in players and coaching.

 

 

I agree. I just don't think that's how he will see it, or he would have started doing it already.

Paying off his £29m first would back you up.

 

What reason was there for him to repay that beyond a stubborn principle that he had said he wasn't putting any more in after the Keegan affair?

 

I think he'll stick to that though and stop repayments with the £29m satisfied.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of accounting, but didn't the club once come out to suggest that debt was necessary in the structure or something like that? I can only assume the 29m loan after the relegation season somehow is a different type of loan than the one from when he paid off existing club debts. To be perfectly honest, none of the club's actions with regards to finances make any sense to me, and with regards to football it's even worse

[Interpolic]

I find plenty to criticise Ashley for, without criticising him for what he might or might not do.

 

I always assume he's going to do what benefits him and sorts direct the most and Newcastle united second.

 

In terms of spending club earnings, Ashley, SD and NUFC all benefit greatest from the club investing all it can in players and coaching.

 

 

I agree. I just don't think that's how he will see it, or he would have started doing it already.

Paying off his £29m first would back you up.

 

What reason was there for him to repay that beyond a stubborn principle that he had said he wasn't putting any more in after the Keegan affair?

 

I think he'll stick to that though and stop repayments with the £29m satisfied.

 

Why?

 

It's an assumption as I said. I'm far more likely to believe he'll start pumping excess cash into anything but the playing squad unless we find ourselves in danger again. I firmly believe that they want us to actively avoid cup runs and European qualification in favour of the bare minimum that guarantees a place on the Premier League gravy train. Based on 7 years or so of evidence, and reading their bullshit about 5 year plans to become the next Arsenal or Villa or whoever suited them at the time.

 

I understand that you think you've spotted a trend and am always interested to read an argument that is built on solid analytical grounding, but in this case I don't think your guess is better than mine or anyone else's. Who's to say he won't start using excess cash after the initial loan is paid off to pay off the remainder of his loan or do whatever he likes with it for that matter? Not you, not me, not anyone but the fat, evil, unpredictable cunt that's done whatever he likes since he stepped through the door.

 

Assume the best all you like, but forgive me for assuming the worst.

 

PS you said that this financial trend you'd spotted was the reason you had no doubt we'd appoint the best candidate as manager, so I'll be interested to hear what you have to say if Carver gets the gig full time or we go into next season with Mike fucking Williamson making 30-plus appearances a season.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Might have been mentioned but Panorama from last week hammering zero hours contracts, mentioning Ashley and Sports Direct by name and showing photos of the fat man etc.

[Interpolic]

Once Sports Direct hit the straight and narrow he'll stick the lot on full time contracts man, pipe down.

 

[Happy Face]

I find plenty to criticise Ashley for, without criticising him for what he might or might not do.

 

I always assume he's going to do what benefits him and sorts direct the most and Newcastle united second.

 

In terms of spending club earnings, Ashley, SD and NUFC all benefit greatest from the club investing all it can in players and coaching.

 

 

I agree. I just don't think that's how he will see it, or he would have started doing it already.

Paying off his £29m first would back you up.

 

What reason was there for him to repay that beyond a stubborn principle that he had said he wasn't putting any more in after the Keegan affair?

 

I think he'll stick to that though and stop repayments with the £29m satisfied.

 

Why?

 

It's an assumption as I said. I'm far more likely to believe he'll start pumping excess cash into anything but the playing squad unless we find ourselves in danger again. I firmly believe that they want us to actively avoid cup runs and European qualification in favour of the bare minimum that guarantees a place on the Premier League gravy train. Based on 7 years or so of evidence, and reading their bullshit about 5 year plans to become the next Arsenal or Villa or whoever suited them at the time.

 

I understand that you think you've spotted a trend and am always interested to read an argument that is built on solid analytical grounding, but in this case I don't think your guess is better than mine or anyone else's. Who's to say he won't start using excess cash after the initial loan is paid off to pay off the remainder of his loan or do whatever he likes with it for that matter? Not you, not me, not anyone but the fat, evil, unpredictable cunt that's done whatever he likes since he stepped through the door.

 

Assume the best all you like, but forgive me for assuming the worst.

 

PS you said that this financial trend you'd spotted was the reason you had no doubt we'd appoint the best candidate as manager, so I'll be interested to hear what you have to say if Carver gets the gig full time or we go into next season with Mike fucking Williamson making 30-plus appearances a season.

 

Yeah, it's just a case of "we'll see" at the moment isn't it.

 

Ashley, Llambias and Charnley have been shambolic in getting across the limitations the club has.  Whether it's because they don't want to draw attention to Ashley's refusal to invest or because they're too conceited to think they need to explain themselves to anyone, or because they are limitations that the owner will increase as time goes by, I don't know.

 

All I know is that up until this season NUFC weren't making enough money to spend it.  That wasn't a concerted effort by a malicious owner to keep the club as low down the league as possible while avoiding relegation.  It was just a financial fact...

 

 

Then with the sale of Cabaye, and the start of a new TV deal in 13/14, the club returned to profitability operationally and over the ownership of Ashley (after player trading).  Guessing the likely figures...

 

 

This is what led to the biggest net spend and the biggest gross spend since Ashley arrived.  And I see no reason to doubt it will be continued.

[Guest Roger Kint]

What biggest net spend? As in last summer? Why are you still peddling that nonsense as though Cabaye was never sold a few months earlier to fund it plus the further sales recently coving it completely? Its a net profit in the real world. We are up over £40m at a fair guess on transfers under MA and the fantasy you keep talking about of us having a big net spend is laughable.

[Happy Face]

What biggest net spend? As in last summer? Why are you still peddling that nonsense as though Cabaye was never sold a few months earlier to fund it plus the further sales recently coving it completely? Its a net profit in the real world. We are up over £40m at a fair guess on transfers under MA and the fantasy you keep talking about of us having a big net spend is laughable.

 

Cabaye was sold in 13/14 an earlier financial year.

 

14/15 then saw the largest net spend and the largest gross spend under Ashley.

 

http://41.media.tumblr.com/2a0beee0e12fb1801fd2a2ac2cb96260/tumblr_nlo1kbruEf1u89ei4o1_400.png

 

Don't know where you get £40m from.  £14.7m up on transfer fees over Ashley's time.

[Andymc1]

What biggest net spend? As in last summer? Why are you still peddling that nonsense as though Cabaye was never sold a few months earlier to fund it plus the further sales recently coving it completely? Its a net profit in the real world. We are up over £40m at a fair guess on transfers under MA and the fantasy you keep talking about of us having a big net spend is laughable.

 

Cabaye was sold in 13/14 an earlier financial year.

 

14/15 then saw the largest net spend and the largest gross spend under Ashley.

 

http://41.media.tumblr.com/2a0beee0e12fb1801fd2a2ac2cb96260/tumblr_nlo1kbruEf1u89ei4o1_400.png

 

Don't know where you get £40m from.  £14.7m up on transfer fees over Ashley's time.

 

Who gives a flying fuck man? I follow football because it's entertaining, I certainly don't follow the game to run the rule over balance sheets. Remember the days when no one took a ha'porth of notice what the accounts looked like.

[Unbelievable]

Going over old ground, but I fail to see why you keep looking at operational profit/loss as some indicator as to what Ashley might do on the transfer market, whilst ignoring what actually happens in terms of transfer fees incoming and outgoing?

[Happy Face]

Going over old ground, but I fail to see why you keep looking at operational profit/loss as some indicator as to what Ashley might do on the transfer market, whilst ignoring what actually happens in terms of transfer fees incoming and outgoing?

 

Operating profit/loss is intrinsic to what the club can afford to do.

 

If the club is hemorrhaging £30m a year before player trading, then players have to be sold to plug that leak.

 

If the club is just about breaking even then players have to be sold before we can buy.

 

If the club is earning £30m, then we can spend that on players before we sell anyone.

 

 

[Wullie]

There's a significant proportion of our support who will be completely mugged this summer when we spend a decent amount (which we will, to survive).

 

Prepare yourself for months of "finally Mike has realised" sentiments, as if buying a few players can put right the decimation of the entire competitive culture of the club since he arrived.

 

Happy Face has fallen for it before we've even spent a penny.

[Happy Face]

There's a significant proportion of our support who will be completely mugged this summer when we spend a decent amount (which we will, to survive).

 

Prepare yourself for months of "finally Mike has realised" sentiments, as if buying a few players can put right the decimation of the entire competitive culture of the club since he arrived.

 

Happy Face has fallen for it before we've even spent a penny.

 

I've fallen for nothing man.  It's exactly what they said was the approach 4 years ago. 

 

Club Finances

Our aim is to make Newcastle United self-financing. We cannot continue to acquire debt year after year and rely on additional financial support from the owner.

 

In 2008/09 we reported an operating loss before player trading of £37.7m. In 2009/10 that loss was £33.5m. Once audited, our accounts for 2010/11 are expected to show an operating loss of just £4.7m and this year we hope we will be close to breaking even.

 

Over the coming year we will continue to build the Club sustainably - on and off the field. We have a realistic view of what we can achieve at Newcastle and the time-frame required to achieve it. We have a strict spending policy and will not take a reckless approach which permits spending beyond our means. It is a sensible long-term plan for success and we have absolute confidence that this is the right model for Newcastle United.

 

I hated it then and I hate it now, but at least it's reaching the point where we can buy without selling.

 

The only people fooled will be the likes of Lovenkrands and Ryder in the chronicle today saying "Ashley needs to spend more", as if Ashley has an epiphany and decides to get more adventurous.  That would be bollocks.  It's been interminably slow growth and will continue at a similarly incremental way.

 

He's not put a penny in for 5 years and nor will he ever again. 

[Andymc1]

It's exactly what they said was the approach 4 years ago. 

 

Surely you're on a wind up?

[Wullie]

They'll spend exactly the amount that they think they need to in order to survive in the division, same as they always do. The amount they spend won't get us a better team, just like it didn't last summer despite the ENORMOUS spending that you bizarrely keep citing.

[Unbelievable]

Going over old ground, but I fail to see why you keep looking at operational profit/loss as some indicator as to what Ashley might do on the transfer market, whilst ignoring what actually happens in terms of transfer fees incoming and outgoing?

 

Operating profit/loss is intrinsic to what the club can afford to do.

 

If the club is hemorrhaging £30m a year before player trading, then players have to be sold to plug that leak.

 

If the club is just about breaking even then players have to be sold before we can buy.

 

If the club is earning £30m, then we can spend that on players before we sell anyone.

 

 

 

I understand that. It's just from 2011 onwards we have seen very manageable operational losses (which shouldn't have even been posted if SD paid a market fee for its advertising btw) and significant profit after player trading. We have not see significant investment in the playing squad in that time, and even worse, we don't even seem willing to pay the going rate for an actual manager who could transform the club's fortunes. I just don't see the significance of going from a very small red to black for operational profit you attribute to it. Do you really think Ashley will start throwing the cash (generated by the club itself mind you) around now, when he could have reinvested profits for the past four years and chose not to?

[Unbelievable]

They'll spend exactly the amount that they think they need to in order to survive in the division, same as they always do. The amount they spend won't get us a better team, just like it didn't last summer despite the ENORMOUS spending that you bizarrely keep citing.

 

Well, there's that too. We have made some absolutely horrendous sales lately. Ben Arfa released for free. Yanga-Mbiwa for 5m was it? Santon sold for 2.8m? We will have to spend big just to not go backwards.

[Happy Face]

Never called it enormous but keep putting words in my mouth.

 

If Sports Direct was losing £30m a year, Ashley would not whack in £400m of his personal fortune to spruce up the shops and get it profitable again.

 

He's not going to do that at nufc to push for the champions league either.  He's not in football for the same reasons as Abramovic or Mansour.

 

From 2007 to 2009 AVFC had a total loss of £57m and NUFC had a toal loss of £70m.  Since then Villa have lost a further £161m (total compined loss almost a quarter Billion) chasing success while NUFC have turned it into a £27m profit getting relegated and promoted then maintaining a place in the league.

 

For 2 owners not looking to invest like the big boys, Lerner's left AVFC in a far worse position, even having written off debt, not just interest on it.

 

 

 

 

[Beren]

There's a significant proportion of our support who will be completely mugged this summer when we spend a decent amount (which we will, to survive).

 

Prepare yourself for months of "finally Mike has realised" sentiments, as if buying a few players can put right the decimation of the entire competitive culture of the club since he arrived.

 

Happy Face has fallen for it before we've even spent a penny.

 

I've fallen for nothing man.  It's exactly what they said was the approach 4 years ago. 

 

Club Finances

Our aim is to make Newcastle United self-financing. We cannot continue to acquire debt year after year and rely on additional financial support from the owner.

 

In 2008/09 we reported an operating loss before player trading of £37.7m. In 2009/10 that loss was £33.5m. Once audited, our accounts for 2010/11 are expected to show an operating loss of just £4.7m and this year we hope we will be close to breaking even.

 

Over the coming year we will continue to build the Club sustainably - on and off the field. We have a realistic view of what we can achieve at Newcastle and the time-frame required to achieve it. We have a strict spending policy and will not take a reckless approach which permits spending beyond our means. It is a sensible long-term plan for success and we have absolute confidence that this is the right model for Newcastle United.

 

I hated it then and I hate it now, but at least it's reaching the point where we can buy without selling.

 

The only people fooled will be the likes of Lovenkrands and Ryder in the chronicle today saying "Ashley needs to spend more", as if Ashley has an epiphany and decides to get more adventurous.  That would be bollocks.  It's been interminably slow growth and will continue at a similarly incremental way.

 

He's not put a penny in for 5 years and nor will he ever again. 

 

It's not any kind of silver lining though, because the silver lining is underpinned by a complete lack of ambition. It's completely meaningless.

[Happy Face]

Going over old ground, but I fail to see why you keep looking at operational profit/loss as some indicator as to what Ashley might do on the transfer market, whilst ignoring what actually happens in terms of transfer fees incoming and outgoing?

 

Operating profit/loss is intrinsic to what the club can afford to do.

 

If the club is hemorrhaging £30m a year before player trading, then players have to be sold to plug that leak.

 

If the club is just about breaking even then players have to be sold before we can buy.

 

If the club is earning £30m, then we can spend that on players before we sell anyone.

 

 

 

I understand that. It's just from 2011 onwards we have seen very manageable operational losses (which shouldn't have even been posted if SD paid a market fee for its advertising btw) and significant profit after player trading. We have not see significant investment in the playing squad in that time, and even worse, we don't even seem willing to pay the going rate for an actual manager who could transform the club's fortunes. I just don't see the significance of going from a very small red to black for operational profit you attribute to it. Do you really think Ashley will start throwing the cash (generated by the club itself mind you) around now, when he could have reinvested profits for the past four years and chose not to?

 

Just because the losses were minimised by 2011 it didn't mean the debt accrued in the 4 years prior was going to be written off.  That's why I did the pics of Ashley's tenure.  Operationally at the end of 2013 we remained over £100m down and after player trading £10m down.

 

I don't think he'll throw the cash around at all.  He'll keep a good working kitty to invest in January in case we're in trouble.  Before spending on players he'll use millions on building the training complex and a better coach and staff.

[Happy Face]

They'll spend exactly the amount that they think they need to in order to survive in the division, same as they always do. The amount they spend won't get us a better team, just like it didn't last summer despite the ENORMOUS spending that you bizarrely keep citing.

 

Well, there's that too. We have made some absolutely horrendous sales lately. Ben Arfa released for free. Yanga-Mbiwa for 5m was it? Santon sold for 2.8m? We will have to spend big just to not go backwards.

 

Ashley will see those as good sales, apart from Ben Arfa, all profitable otherwise

 

 

 

[Unbelievable]

They'll spend exactly the amount that they think they need to in order to survive in the division, same as they always do. The amount they spend won't get us a better team, just like it didn't last summer despite the ENORMOUS spending that you bizarrely keep citing.

 

Well, there's that too. We have made some absolutely horrendous sales lately. Ben Arfa released for free. Yanga-Mbiwa for 5m was it? Santon sold for 2.8m? We will have to spend big just to not go backwards.

 

Ashley will see those as good sales, apart from Ben Arfa, all profitable otherwise

 

 

 

 

And therein lies the problem. Ashley sees a profit instead of realising that he's weakened the squad significantly by letting three of our better players go for peanuts.

[NG32]

Then replacing with unknowns (in the prem league) in the hope they are like for like or better, then hope to sell for profit again.  Then repeat.

 

There is no team building or a strategy to actually achieve anything other than standing still in mid table and flipping players for profit.