Mikky Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Shambolic ownership and board. Disgraceful. We should have 100% kept Leon Best, Danny Guthrie, and Wayne Routledge (I know Guthrie left on his own b/c he wanted first team football). But the fact that we've sold squad players and tried to graduate the youth players too early is a disgraceful decision by the club. Best, Guthrie, Forster, and Wayne Routledge could have all been vital to our squad. We haven't had squad depth in ages, and every time something happens to us via injuries or suspensions, we've struggled b/c we've lacked adequate depth. The players listed above aren't exactly world class players who should be commanded first team places, but they'd provide experience and some unique quality/talent. I think of today's starting 11 and in that you replace Best for Shola, Routledge for Sammy, Guthrie for Mehdi, and you've got a team that could grind out a result. I've always said we should be buying solid Championship players who actually have some talent to fill in some depth for our squads, or decent PL players who would love to play for a club like us and be a member of the squad. You could pick out a player or 2 from each of the "smaller" clubs and see a few that would cost us little and prove to be key squad players. But our board, are just f***ing so incredibly cheap and lack ambition - b/c they love to take gambles on young lads who have only cut their teeth in reserve fixtures or youth matches. Funny that we sign a player like Bigi from a lower league who is at the right age and he looks miles ahead of others b/c he's had real first team experience. Best and Guthrie played in the equally embarrassing fixture down there last year. Both also had long spells at the club of simply not being up to scratch. The jettisoning of average players is not the problem here. In fact we've still got too many of them making up key parts squad; Williamson, Simpson, Perch, Ryan Taylor, Shola, Obertan. Most of that lot wouldn't even get in our Championship starting XI. A decent club would have f***ed them off by now in our 3rd season back in the top flight, not be dishing out new contracts to them like we do and having them play 30 games a season. I despair at the situation we find ourselves in, where we're having to accept people like Shola, Perch and Ryan Taylor as 'cult heroes' because of their effort/character instead of having players good enough to match the unfulfilled potential of the club. That's without even touching on people like Sammy, Bigi, Ferguson etc all playing regular games when they should be out on loan. We should have a full 18 man squad minimum of players who are good enough to be top 10 Premier League footballers, and I mean actual footballers who like having the f***ing ball. Not have 5 or 6 in the line-up trying to mask the inabilities of others and ultimately dragging their own level down. It will never happen though, because it's obviously too f***ing expensive for a club with 50,000 fans coming through the turnstiles and millions of pounds of revenue to have a squad of competent f***ing players to pick from. Very good post that Sewelly: Just looking at our squad again: do we have 18 strong players worthy of a top 10 team... Krul, S Taylor, Colocinni, Santon, Jonas, Tiote, Cabaye, Anita, Marveaux, Debuchy, Ben Arfa, Cisse, Ba (Remy) = 13 So in my opinion, we're a full back, centre back, central midfielder, winger, striker STILL short of completing the squad we need: with the rest of the squad made up of at least R Taylor, Perch, Willamson, Bigirimana, Obertan and Ameobi (possibly Gosling aswell) for the time being: with these guys slowing (except Bigirimana) being eased out. Maybe this is the grand plan by the board?.................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I went with 18 as a ball-park figure, you could argue you need more. Then you can have people out on loan, who could then maybe come back later on and offer legitimate depth if they develop with the gametime. Mind, in my perfect world we'd also be playing good football and have a set style of play where young players could drop into without too much strain. Imagine that, ey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Nguyen Van Falk Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Great post Sewelly, especially about those players not getting in the Championship team. The gulf in quality between out first team and back up players is staggering. It literally goes from Premier League quality to Championship and below... A question for anyone reading this, when have you ever seen one of our matches and looked at whose on the bench and seen players (lets say 2-4 players) who can come on and offer us something different and allow us to change tactic if it isn't working? I personally can't recall any time at all where this situation has happened and our bench is normally filled with bodies to plug a hole if need be. Awful, just fucking awful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlito Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Shambolic ownership and board. Disgraceful. We should have 100% kept Leon Best, Danny Guthrie, and Wayne Routledge (I know Guthrie left on his own b/c he wanted first team football). But the fact that we've sold squad players and tried to graduate the youth players too early is a disgraceful decision by the club. Best, Guthrie, Forster, and Wayne Routledge could have all been vital to our squad. We haven't had squad depth in ages, and every time something happens to us via injuries or suspensions, we've struggled b/c we've lacked adequate depth. The players listed above aren't exactly world class players who should be commanded first team places, but they'd provide experience and some unique quality/talent. I think of today's starting 11 and in that you replace Best for Shola, Routledge for Sammy, Guthrie for Mehdi, and you've got a team that could grind out a result. I've always said we should be buying solid Championship players who actually have some talent to fill in some depth for our squads, or decent PL players who would love to play for a club like us and be a member of the squad. You could pick out a player or 2 from each of the "smaller" clubs and see a few that would cost us little and prove to be key squad players. But our board, are just f***ing so incredibly cheap and lack ambition - b/c they love to take gambles on young lads who have only cut their teeth in reserve fixtures or youth matches. Funny that we sign a player like Bigi from a lower league who is at the right age and he looks miles ahead of others b/c he's had real first team experience. Best and Guthrie played in the equally embarrassing fixture down there last year. Both also had long spells at the club of simply not being up to scratch. The jettisoning of average players is not the problem here. In fact we've still got too many of them making up key parts squad; Williamson, Simpson, Perch, Ryan Taylor, Shola, Obertan. Most of that lot wouldn't even get in our Championship starting XI. A decent club would have f***ed them off by now in our 3rd season back in the top flight, not be dishing out new contracts to them like we do and having them play 30 games a season. I despair at the situation we find ourselves in, where we're having to accept people like Shola, Perch and Ryan Taylor as 'cult heroes' because of their effort/character instead of having players good enough to match the unfulfilled potential of the club. That's without even touching on people like Sammy, Bigi, Ferguson etc all playing regular games when they should be out on loan. We should have a full 18 man squad minimum of players who are good enough to be top 10 Premier League footballers, and I mean actual footballers who like having the f***ing ball. Not have 5 or 6 in the line-up trying to mask the inabilities of others and ultimately dragging their own level down. It will never happen though, because it's obviously too f***ing expensive for a club with 50,000 fans coming through the turnstiles and millions of pounds of revenue to have a squad of competent f***ing players to pick from. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Category One status is a must as well. Category one status means fuck all if you have no one of any quality coming through your academy. Carroll aside, we only have Campbell who looks anything sort of quality. Sammy has pace but no final ball, even against Everton his pace didn't seem to be enough. Ranger we bought and shows no promise, Bigi again was bought. Streete, well he's unknown, we all have high hopes for him but we have fallen for that a few times over the last few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Time to either back your manager or sack him Mike, it's as simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Time to either back your manager or sack him Mike, it's as simple as that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malandro Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Category One status is a must as well. Category one status means f*** all if you have no one of any quality coming through your academy. Carroll aside, we only have Campbell who looks anything sort of quality. Sammy has pace but no final ball, even against Everton his pace didn't seem to be enough. Ranger we bought and shows no promise, Bigi again was bought. Streete, well he's unknown, we all have high hopes for him but we have fallen for that a few times over the last few years. Apart from having a wider catchment area, funding from the FA and (I think) the ability to poach players off clubs who don't have C1 status. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I went with 18 as a ball-park figure, you could argue you need more. Then you can have people out on loan, who could then maybe come back later on and offer legitimate depth if they develop with the gametime. Mind, in my perfect world we'd also be playing good football and have a set style of play where young players could drop into without too much strain. Imagine that, ey. You're critique of my post is spot on. I'm not saying those are the concrete lads that should have been kept, I'm saying those lads are decent squad players who if left, should have been replaced with well- what you mentioned in your post you're post is fantastic. I just thought it needed to be said how poorly our board plans for squad depth, why was obvious to all of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I went with 18 as a ball-park figure, you could argue you need more. Then you can have people out on loan, who could then maybe come back later on and offer legitimate depth if they develop with the gametime. Mind, in my perfect world we'd also be playing good football and have a set style of play where young players could drop into without too much strain. Imagine that, ey. You're critique of my post is spot on. I'm not saying those are the concrete lads that should have been kept, I'm saying those lads are decent squad players who if left, should have been replaced with well- what you mentioned in your post you're post is fantastic. I just thought it needed to be said how poorly our board plans for squad depth, why was obvious to all of course. Our criticisms were the same in reality and I'm sure mirror most of the board's opinions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Enough is enough. For gods sake go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Enough is enough. For gods sake go. For God's go! I demand someone else buy this club and spend!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Just wish we could get rid of the lot and start again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Just wish we could get rid of the lot and start again. I feel the same way about N-O posters at the minute tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Just wish we could get rid of the lot and start again. I feel the same way about N-O posters at the minute tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Just wish we could get rid of the lot and start again. I feel the same way about N-O posters at the minute tbh. Mine would solve both problems! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 It's round about this point that I'm expecting an announcement about the stadium being Wongaworld next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Wongaland's better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Mags Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Wongadome for me like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 wongadome aye Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Hard to see an end to Ashley's spell at the club - would take very big bucks to get rid of him and I can't see any likely source of that. The Qataris are our best hope but they will just wait until things are REALLY in a mess - like heading for relegation - so they can screw Ashley for the best deal....in fact, we could be in the Championship before there is a change of owner. This reminds me of when Villa had Doug Ellis and their fans were desperate to get rid of him but it took years...at least they got Lerner, we got rid of Shepherd and got Ashley... The only decent thing he has done is to take on the club's debt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 tbf, Lerner has hardly be terts amerzbahls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenige Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Hard to see an end to Ashley's spell at the club - would take very big bucks to get rid of him and I can't see any likely source of that. The Qataris are our best hope but they will just wait until things are REALLY in a mess - like heading for relegation - so they can screw Ashley for the best deal....in fact, we could be in the Championship before there is a change of owner. This reminds me of when Villa had Doug Ellis and their fans were desperate to get rid of him but it took years...at least they got Lerner, we got rid of Shepherd and got Ashley... The only decent thing he has done is to take on the club's debt. Would you really want the club to be a foreign owners play-thing? Have them come in and spunk loads of money on random players leaving the club soulless and without any real tradition or respect like Man City or Chelsea? I'd rather keep grinding and earn any glory than have it drop into our lap like a lottery win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 New owners have generally been shit across the board with the exceptions being when they have enough money to offset the fact that they know nothing about football - Chelsea and Man City. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Hard to see an end to Ashley's spell at the club - would take very big bucks to get rid of him and I can't see any likely source of that. The Qataris are our best hope but they will just wait until things are REALLY in a mess - like heading for relegation - so they can screw Ashley for the best deal....in fact, we could be in the Championship before there is a change of owner. This reminds me of when Villa had Doug Ellis and their fans were desperate to get rid of him but it took years...at least they got Lerner, we got rid of Shepherd and got Ashley... The only decent thing he has done is to take on the club's debt. Would you really want the club to be a foreign owners play-thing? Have them come in and spunk loads of money on random players leaving the club soulless and without any real tradition or respect like Man City or Chelsea? I'd rather keep grinding and earn any glory than have it drop into our lap like a lottery win. Would you really like to be taken for a fool every year by empty promises of new players to improve the side and then end up by selling more players than you sign and getting booted out of the FA Cup 2 years running by a seaside town team ? If you would, good luck to you - I prefer a successful side with quality players and actually winning a few trophies for a change. Maybe you don't want all those distractions of having to go to Semi-finals and finals...far better to sit at home and watch other teams doing it on TV ...? Yes I WOULD rather we got taken over and did a Man City...is that clear enough ? Incidentally - has anyone told you what the odds are on winning the lottery,...!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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