Dr Venkman Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 So terribly sad all of this, really feel for his family. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamunigeordie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Some great posts Thomas. I have wanted to say something for a couple of days so I will try to articulate my opinion below. This is a difficult subject to cover - I will endeavour to word my post as carefully as possible, however, if I accidentally make it sound like I am talking down to people or am belittling mental health I apologise in advance - that is not how it is meant to read. The greatest problem is that mental health has such a stigma attached to it that the majority of people do not understand it, nor do they have the information available to allow them to. Like you said Thomas, that is not their fault - it is merely reflective of society. Luckily things are starting to change and one day it will be a less taboo subject. I myself have been very close to others suffering from depression. At this stage of course we are merely speculating, but it does appear to be a very viable option. The notion that just because Gary was laughing, joking and making plans for the future on Saturday means he could not have been depressed needs to be addressed. As people have posted above, if someone doesn't want you to know about their depression then you wont know. People have the ability to put on an 'act' so that they seem fine to others and sometimes they can even in a sense overcompensate so that they give the appearance of being very happy. The conspiracy theories have started to go around because many feel that there has to be an explanation to what has happened. The reality, if indeed this is a case of depression, is much much darker and this may be why people are speculating it is something else. Depression in many cases isn't logical and it doesn't necessarily have to be triggered by something major - it can often be a combination of little events or even nothing in particular that the person can put their finger on. Personally, a part of me hopes that some other explanation is found. This is simply for the reason that it would be very sad, and therefore unimaginably heartbreaking for his family, to think that Gary had been having to deal with such feelings, potentially for a lengthy period of time. It is tragic that he felt that this was the only option left for him and I hope that wherever he is now he is much more peaceful. The coverage of this event has been a real eye opener for me. I don't think I've ever been quite so moved by the passing of someone who I don't know. I was upset when Bobby died but this is a whole new level. I have been on the verge of tears a couple of times watching and listening to people pay their respects to Gary and watching then Bryn Laws video yesterday really got to me. I never had the privilege to meet the man himself, but I think my everlasting memory of the man will be the header he scored in the UEFA cup quarter final at home to PSV right in front of me. RIP Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think that diagnosing a man with suicidal depression without being in possession of a single fact in the case beyond the fact that he's dead is no less disrespectful than speculating about anything else that may have caused his death. Maybe he was depressed. But maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was the victim of a tragic fluke accident, maybe he was murdered like alpal suggested. Some of these things are more likely than others but the only person with enough information to make that decision will be the coroner. Gary Speed was an individual, a great one, and deserves more than a catch-all diagnosis based on other people's experiences. His wife and children don't seem to think he was suffering from depression and they might be wrong but their views also deserve more than dismissal from amateur internet psychologists. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think people are just talking through the possibility Wullie, you're right that nobody actually knows the truth. Sure nobody means to be disrespectful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 The inquest opens today, so that may shed a bit more light on things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
durhamunigeordie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think that diagnosing a man with suicidal depression without being in possession of a single fact in the case beyond the fact that he's dead is no less disrespectful than speculating about anything else that may have caused his death. Maybe he was depressed. But maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was the victim of a tragic fluke accident, maybe he was murdered like alpal suggested. Some of these things are more likely than others but the only person with enough information to make that decision will be the coroner. Gary Speed was an individual, a great one, and deserves more than a catch-all diagnosis based on other people's experiences. His wife and children don't seem to think he was suffering from depression and they might be wrong but their views also deserve more than dismissal from amateur internet psychologists. Think you are wrong there mate. No one is trying to say for certain that is what happened, they are simply trying to give out some information to the many people who have stated or alluded to the fact that they don't necessarily fully understand depression. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Still feeling completely lousy about this news, won't allow myself to stop thinking about him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think that diagnosing a man with suicidal depression without being in possession of a single fact in the case beyond the fact that he's dead is no less disrespectful than speculating about anything else that may have caused his death. Maybe he was depressed. But maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was the victim of a tragic fluke accident, maybe he was murdered like alpal suggested. Some of these things are more likely than others but the only person with enough information to make that decision will be the coroner. Gary Speed was an individual, a great one, and deserves more than a catch-all diagnosis based on other people's experiences. His wife and children don't seem to think he was suffering from depression and they might be wrong but their views also deserve more than dismissal from amateur internet psychologists. Spot on! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think that diagnosing a man with suicidal depression without being in possession of a single fact in the case beyond the fact that he's dead is no less disrespectful than speculating about anything else that may have caused his death. Maybe he was depressed. But maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was the victim of a tragic fluke accident, maybe he was murdered like alpal suggested. Some of these things are more likely than others but the only person with enough information to make that decision will be the coroner. Gary Speed was an individual, a great one, and deserves more than a catch-all diagnosis based on other people's experiences. His wife and children don't seem to think he was suffering from depression and they might be wrong but their views also deserve more than dismissal from amateur internet psychologists. Spot on! Erm, don't think thomas was definitively diagnosing it as depression whatsoever. His explanation was an offshoot from alpal's rationalisations as to why depression would or could not possibly make sense. [/my understanding] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Nobody has said they know what the reasons behind this are, and nobody has dismissed the views of his family. As if anyone would do that. People are just discussing the issue of depression, following on from it being raised as a possible reason. Don't see the point in criticising anyone for that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasper Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Read from somewhere that people who have made the decision to kill themselves can often seem very happy and relaxed in the days / weeks leading up to the eventual suicide Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 The thing is that some people think suicide is an incredibly selfish thing to do, me personally, I think it depends on individual circumstances but if it wasn't suicide, Gary Speed himself may be appalled by the thought of people thinking he'd done that to his family, which is why I'm really uncomfortable with any sort of speculation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Boot Boy Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 In terms of some not being able to understand how he could be smiling and joking so soon before his death, this is apparently not uncommon. Sometimes, people in a suicidal state are extremely happy and positive before they take their own lives as they know that there's a way out*. I'm not saying that's definitely what happened here by any means but his positive demeanour prior to death does not mean that he could not have been suicidal. *This is according to a psych consultant who my girlfriend knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie Boot Boy Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 The thing is that some people think suicide is an incredibly selfish thing to do, me personally, I think it depends on individual circumstances but if it wasn't suicide, Gary Speed himself may be appalled by the thought of people thinking he'd done that to his family, which is why I'm really uncomfortable with any sort of speculation. Me too, mate. I haven't commented much for a very similar reason. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil K Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Rumours galore at the moment, only to be expected of course, but troubling. I still find it odd, even allowing for all the "depression is easily hidden" - which I don't personally believe, actually - he went from displaying no problems, and planning next TV appearance before Xmas - to suicide in the middle of the night. As we all know, the middle of the night, all things seem 10 times worse and insurmountable. Even so. I just have the feeling something happened Saturday night. Just so distressing all round. There are some footballers I absolutely despise, but would be extremely sympathetic if they topped themselves. But Gary....much loved, someone it's impossible to have a bad word to say about ? Devastating..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 I think that diagnosing a man with suicidal depression without being in possession of a single fact in the case beyond the fact that he's dead is no less disrespectful than speculating about anything else that may have caused his death. Maybe he was depressed. But maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was the victim of a tragic fluke accident, maybe he was murdered like alpal suggested. Some of these things are more likely than others but the only person with enough information to make that decision will be the coroner. Gary Speed was an individual, a great one, and deserves more than a catch-all diagnosis based on other people's experiences. His wife and children don't seem to think he was suffering from depression and they might be wrong but their views also deserve more than dismissal from amateur internet psychologists. Spot on! Erm, don't think thomas was definitively diagnosing it as depression whatsoever. His explanation was an offshoot from alpal's rationalisations as to why depression would or could not possibly make sense. [/my understanding] We are all grieving in one way or another, but I'm sure we all have our own questions. Gary Speed's passing is as sudden and as mysterious as it can get. alpal wasn't being offensive or owt, and I don't think he should be chastised for hoping that the police not let this incident go. No one is belittling depression and its dangers. Nothing is established yet, so until then, I'd rather we didn't speculate in any way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
segalno9 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 If you look at Some great posts Thomas. I have wanted to say something for a couple of days so I will try to articulate my opinion below. This is a difficult subject to cover - I will endeavour to word my post as carefully as possible, however, if I accidentally make it sound like I am talking down to people or am belittling mental health I apologise in advance - that is not how it is meant to read. The greatest problem is that mental health has such a stigma attached to it that the majority of people do not understand it, nor do they have the information available to allow them to. Like you said Thomas, that is not their fault - it is merely reflective of society. Luckily things are starting to change and one day it will be a less taboo subject. I myself have been very close to others suffering from depression. At this stage of course we are merely speculating, but it does appear to be a very viable option. The notion that just because Gary was laughing, joking and making plans for the future on Saturday means he could not have been depressed needs to be addressed. As people have posted above, if someone doesn't want you to know about their depression then you wont know. People have the ability to put on an 'act' so that they seem fine to others and sometimes they can even in a sense overcompensate so that they give the appearance of being very happy. The conspiracy theories have started to go around because many feel that there has to be an explanation to what has happened. The reality, if indeed this is a case of depression, is much much darker and this may be why people are speculating it is something else. Depression in many cases isn't logical and it doesn't necessarily have to be triggered by something major - it can often be a combination of little events or even nothing in particular that the person can put their finger on. Personally, a part of me hopes that some other explanation is found. This is simply for the reason that it would be very sad, and therefore unimaginably heartbreaking for his family, to think that Gary had been having to deal with such feelings, potentially for a lengthy period of time. It is tragic that he felt that this was the only option left for him and I hope that wherever he is now he is much more peaceful. The coverage of this event has been a real eye opener for me. I don't think I've ever been quite so moved by the passing of someone who I don't know. I was upset when Bobby died but this is a whole new level. I have been on the verge of tears a couple of times watching and listening to people pay their respects to Gary and watching then Bryn Laws video yesterday really got to me. I never had the privilege to meet the man himself, but I think my everlasting memory of the man will be the header he scored in the UEFA cup quarter final at home to PSV right in front of me. RIP Gary If you look at pictures of him smilling, his eyes looks very sad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theregulars Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Horrible in class today, our teacher is a good friend of his wife. Says she's absolutely devastated, just reiterated, knowing him personally and knowing nothing about football, what a ridiculously lovely bloke he was and how, having met him on numerous occasions (their sons were mates), she never, ever, ever in a million years would have saw this. She started crying and all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 F*** Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Geordie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Friend of mine at work was talking to me this morning about when he met Gary Speed. Ambrose is from the same village in Nigeria (and is mates with) as Jay Jay Ockocha and after taking in a Bolton game, JJ arranged for him to meet Speed. Ambrose said he was a totally spot on bloke and spent a good while talking to him about football. Needless to say, he is devastated at the moment and is in as much shock as the rest of us. Just thought it worth sharing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henke Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 The coverage of this event has been a real eye opener for me. I don't think I've ever been quite so moved by the passing of someone who I don't know. I was upset when Bobby died but this is a whole new level. I have been on the verge of tears a couple of times watching and listening to people pay their respects to Gary and watching then Bryn Laws video yesterday really got to me. Similar feelings here. I can't quite decribe it, i never knew the guy so i shouldn't be as upset as i am. Watching Bryn Law last night tipped me over the edge. If the wife hadn't been in the room i'd have been balling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/11852/ This article does a good job of saying what I was getting at earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 would be nice to see a huge print of Speed dropped down over the back of the gallowgate like that shearer one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGuv Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 would be nice to see a huge print of Speed dropped down over the back of the gallowgate like that shearer one I like that idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Had trouble sleeping last night and kept going over and over this in my head. Definitely never been so shocked and moved by the death of a famous person. Haven't cried or anything but tbh I've been trying to avoid a lot of the coverage/interviews because I imagine they'll be very upsetting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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