Dogawful Officiating - Dave Coote suspended

[TRon]

23 minutes ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

They didn’t even seemingly look at that bit, only the shirt pull - based on their non-explanation.

 

I heard some sort of justification that it wasn't clear whether the shirt pull was enough to bring Murphy down, that's why I was asking if there's been a rule change. Previously any shirt pulling was illegal, seems now, certain Big Six-ly shirt pulls are ok.

[Joey Linton]

VAR doesn't necessarily have to give the penalty, but the system is in place for the referee to have a proper look at a decision he couldn't make because his view was obscured. They've just ignored that option. 

 

Also if he'd given the penalty does VAR deem there wasn't enough of a shirt pull and reverse the decision? Is that a thing now too? 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by Joey Linton

[LRD]

Isn't the whole idea of VAR is utilising current technology to ensure that decisions are fair? Seems like nothing has changed with the dinosaurs using it.

[Wolfcastle]

They're like that arsehole on Prometheus that has the mapping technology, an audio and visual link up back to the ship that has a read out of where they are within a structure and yet somehow (deus ex machina) get lost.

They deserve to be killed by aliens.

Same goes for the characters in that film

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Wolfcastle

[joeyt]

16 hours ago, Fantail Breeze said:

Sky say the VAR excuse was that the shirt pull wasn’t enough to go down

 

Ignoring the challenge with the leg which actually sent him down.

 

Fuck off man. How can it not be a clear and obvious error when he gave a corner, despite the Chelsea player not touching the ball?

 

 

 

 

Bbc match report doing the same thing in their match report. No mention of it until this last sentence

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60635693

 

"Howe said he thought Havertz could have been sent off but was also disappointed his side did not get a second-half penalty when Trevoh Chalobah had a hold of Jacob Murphy's shirt."

 

[joeyt]

"Had a hold of Murphy's shirt" is such an understatement

[Sima]

"had a hold of Jacob Murphy's shirt"

 

 Fuck clean off, man.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

There’s so many problems with VAR and a lot of it seems to come down to this really old-fashioned desire to suggest that the match referee is perfect or above reproach. Also the nature of football means that almost every decision is subjective. 
 

For me, the obvious error test is silly. I would be happy to give the referee the power to just signal for VAR instead of making any decision. He can say he couldn’t really see, then the VAR makes the decision. They’re all qualified officials, they should all be empowered to make decisions. 
 

Alternatively, just routinely review every match-changing incident, with the VAR making the decision regardless of what the on-field referee says. The test should be “was that a foul”, not “was it understandable that the referee didn’t give it”. 
 

Also the communication with fans is farcical. Look at NFL or even rugby. The referee runs to the camera, tells the fans what’s going on and what/why the decision is. Surely that at least makes them think it through logically. Or as in rugby, the conversation between the referee and the VAR is also live on TV. So everyone can hear what is being discussed and how they come to a decision. 
 

I also think penalties themselves are way too important in such a low-scoring sport. Especially with the amount of diving. I’d be up for making penalties more difficult, making the box smaller or some other method to reduce the impact of any one decision on the result. As long as we can’t get them right, anyway. 

[gbandit]

13 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

There’s so many problems with VAR and a lot of it seems to come down to this really old-fashioned desire to suggest that the match referee is perfect or above reproach. Also the nature of football means that almost every decision is subjective. 

This is the crux of it for me, why are we trying to make out that an incredibly subjective thing is infallible?
 

Why are referees so precious that they can’t be told they’ve made a mistake?

 

Would be far healthier if they just dropped this pretence, as a ref you should surely care most about making the right decisions, not about whether your pride is hurt by someone overruling you. Every week, it feels like the officials dig themselves a bigger and bigger hole. Why are they not being held to account more?

 

VAR is clearly not going away, so if it’s here to stay they need to completely change how it works.

[Guest]

Coote same official that was on VAR when VVD was injured against Everton... didn't officiate a Liverpool game for a season after that.  He's not very good. 

 

Coote was also officiating our game against Villa when the GK took out Wilson and nothing was given, and Villa were given a penalty. 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by OCK

[TRon]

1 hour ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

There’s so many problems with VAR and a lot of it seems to come down to this really old-fashioned desire to suggest that the match referee is perfect or above reproach. Also the nature of football means that almost every decision is subjective. 
 

 

 

 

See that's the thing for me, shirt pulling isn't subjective, or at least it never used to be. It's a stonewall foul, and it's cheating in order to stop the striker from potentially scoring a goal. Otherwise why would a defender ever pull someone's shirt in the first place?

 

There's nothing subjective about it, it's a bullshit excuse.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 minute ago, TRon said:

 

 

See that's the thing for me, shirt pulling isn't subjective, or at least it never used to be. It's a stonewall foul, and it's cheating in order to stop the striker from potentially scoring a goal. Otherwise why would a defender ever pull someone's shirt in the first place?

 

There's nothing subjective about it, it's a bullshit excuse.

I wasn’t really talking about that incident specifically. I just mean that a lot of stuff in football - one official will come to a different conclusion than another. 
 

With the Havertz elbow for example, some officials will say yellow card and some will say red. Just using a replay for the decision won’t satisfy everyone. 

[TRon]

Just now, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I wasn’t really talking about that incident specifically. I just mean that a lot of stuff in football - one official will come to a different conclusion than another. 
 

With the Havertz elbow for example, some officials will say yellow card and some will say red. Just using a replay for the decision won’t satisfy everyone. 

 

Yes you could argue the Havertz elbow decision was subjective, definitely room for debate on that one, although it was telling that former Chelsea boy Tony Yeboah thought it was a sending off.

 

What I don't get is how shirt pulling can be legitimised.

[macphisto]

I wonder what VAR would make of this elbow?

 

 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

I've no doubt that the Elbow wasn't an attempt to injure but when Havetz himself has claimed 'This guy is like seven, eight foot and I have to jump against him. You have to use arms to jump and when I jump he is higher than me, so it is tough.' Then he is admitting that he has deliberately used his arms to gain an advantage in a challenge. It went wrong and must be classed as dangerous and/or reckless play. 

 

The pen decision is what it is, David Blunkett can see it was a pen

[Sima]

33 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Yes you could argue the Havertz elbow decision was subjective, definitely room for debate on that one, although it was telling that former Chelsea boy Tony Yeboah thought it was a sending off.

 

What I don't get is how shirt pulling can be legitimised.

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Sima

[Dr Venkman]

2 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

There’s so many problems with VAR and a lot of it seems to come down to this really old-fashioned desire to suggest that the match referee is perfect or above reproach.

 

Yep. Been banging this drum for years.

[Dr Venkman]

6 minutes ago, Sima said:

 

 

 

 

[Jaqen]

2 hours ago, gbandit said:

This is the crux of it for me, why are we trying to make out that an incredibly subjective thing is infallible?
 

Why are referees so precious that they can’t be told they’ve made a mistake?

 

Would be far healthier if they just dropped this pretence, as a ref you should surely care most about making the right decisions, not about whether your pride is hurt by someone overruling you. Every week, it feels like the officials dig themselves a bigger and bigger hole. Why are they not being held to account more?

 

VAR is clearly not going away, so if it’s here to stay they need to completely change how it works.

 

It doesn't even need to be overruled. Just get the ref to have a look at it himself on the screen, there's no way he doesn't give a pen of he sees it how everyone else saw it. 

 

If anything it's doing the refs harm by not allowing them the opportunity to make the correct the decision. 

[TRon]

That fucking meme still knocking around

 

triggs will be having a wank over it later.

[gbandit]

7 minutes ago, Jaqen said:

 

It doesn't even need to be overruled. Just get the ref to have a look at it himself on the screen, there's no way he doesn't give a pen of he sees it how everyone else saw it. 

 

If anything it's doing the refs harm by not allowing them the opportunity to make the correct the decision. 

A good system would be:

 

1) Ref makes wrong call

2) VAR Ref looks at video “Hello David, I’ve looked at this and there’s a clear shirt pull here with two attempts to pull him back and then he takes the man down, can you come look at the monitor, I’d call this a penalty

3) Ref says “ah ok, my view wasn’t great”

4) Ref looks at video in discussion with VAR ref, “what do you think?” Says VAR ref? “See what you mean, that’s a clear pen”

5)Ref gives pen

 

If that’s mic’ed up then there’s transparency. If they did all this and made the wrong decision at least you know where they’re coming from 

[The Prophet]

Even of you apply the daft "high bar" rule that they're using, Coote gave a corner. He's therefore made a factual error in that he thinks Chalobah has taken the ball and it should have been looked at. It's awful officiating from whoever was on VAR.

[Cf]

25 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Even of you apply the daft "high bar" rule that they're using, Coote gave a corner. He's therefore made a factual error in that he thinks Chalobah has taken the ball and it should have been looked at. It's awful officiating from whoever was on VAR.

 

The fact that a corner was given was what made it pass the clear and obvious test with flying colours.

[TRon]

It was Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink btw, dunno why I had a brain freeze.

[Tsunami]

There’s more than a few Chelsea fans who are complaining that we kicked them all over the pitch and that they were playing against 14……doesn’t help when Havertz nearly breaks Burns’ cheek/ eye socket and says his elbow was that high as Burns is 7 or 8 feet tall (so you’re saying you deliberately went in that high?) and we were just trying to foul them all game.