Dogawful Officiating

[Bimpy474]

On 18/03/2023 at 21:13, Hanshithispantz said:

He isn’t gaining an advantage though as he’d be offside if Isak played it to him. He’s onside because Felipe intentionally played the ball towards him.

 

It’s no different to Botman playing the ball back to Dennis.

 

Felipe didn't intentionally play it toward Longstaff he was blocking/intercepting the ball.   At no stage was Dennis was offside, and Botman was passing the ball back to Pope, the two incidents aren't comparable imo.

 

Just my opinion mate.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2023 by Bimpy474

[80]

19 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

"The election was stolen", "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" ad infinitum.

You've not even posted a source for your claims, you're nowhere near being able to make this argument.

[Kaizero]

2 minutes ago, 80 said:

You've not even posted a source for your claims, you're nowhere near being able to make this argument.

 

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-premier-league/story/4722849/how-var-decisions-have-affected-every-premier-league-club-in-2022-23

 

https://github.com/kennethleungty/English-Premier-League-VAR-Analysis

 

https://www.premierleague.com/news/1293321

 

For starters.

[Kaizero]

17 minutes ago, madras said:

And do those correct decisions include non-decisions when the ref takes no action and they aren't viewed as serious enough  for VAR ?

 

18 minutes ago, joeyt said:

So presumably they are not included in the 12% increase in correct decisions?

 

Because if they do count towards the 12% it makes the particular statistic pretty meaningless?

 

It's not that hard to understand, I mean, really. Come on

 

Pre-VAR: Post-game review of all referee decisions, which ones were wrong (by the book) and which ones were correct (by the book)? The average was that 18% were incorrect and 82% were correct.

Post-VAR: Post-game review of all referee and VAR decisions, which ones were wrong (by the book) and which ones were correct (by the book)? The average was that 6% were incorrect and 94% were correct.

 

A philosophical debate about who is "interpreting the laws of the game" when making a final call on if a decision was correct or incorrect is another matter entirely.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Kaizero

[Hanshithispantz]

5 minutes ago, Bimpy474 said:

 

Felipe didn't intentionally play it toward Longstaff he was blocking/intercepting the ball.   At no stage was Dennis was offside, and Botman was passing the ball back to Pope, the two incidents are comparable imo.

 

Just my opinion mate.

Thought  Dennis was off for some reason  Pretending he was though the point is that just standing offside is fine.

 

Intercepting/playing isn’t really anything to get stuck over though, he was fully in control of what to do with the ball. He had to opportunity to put his foot through it.

[madras]

2 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

 

It's not that hard to understand, I mean, really. Come on

 

Pre-VAR: Post-game review of all referee decisions, which ones were wrong (by the book) and which ones were correct (by the book)? The average was that 18% were incorrect and 82% were correct.

Post-VAR: Post-game review of all referee and VAR decisions, which ones were wrong (by the book) and which ones were correct (by the book)? The average was that 6% were incorrect and 94% were correct.

 

A philosophical debate about who is "interpreting the laws of the game" when making a final call on if a decision was correct or incorrect is another matter entirely.

 

 

 

Does that include non-decisions, which are still decisions in themselves ? 

[joeyt]

4 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

 

It's not that hard to understand, I mean, really. Come on

 

Pre-VAR: Post-game review of all referee decisions, which ones were wrong (by the book) and which ones were correct (by the book)? The average was that 18% were incorrect and 82% were correct.

Post-VAR. Post-game review of all referee and VAR decisions, which ones were wrong (by the book) and which ones were correct (by the book)? The average was that 6% were incorrect and 94% were correct.

 

A philosophical debate about who is "interpreting the laws of the game" when making a final call on if a decision was correct or incorrect is another matter entirely.

 

But a load of decisions themselves aren't 'by the book', they're subjective decisions so the stat is preety meaningless

 

You said that "I'd go as far as saying the examples of goals that have stood in similar cirumstances were the incorrect decisions", so you don't even believe your own argument because they'll be contributing to that  94% statistic and yet you've said that they should be inccorect decisions?

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by joeyt

[Kaizero]

3 minutes ago, joeyt said:

But a load of decisions themselves aren't 'by the book', they're subjective decisions so the stat is preety meaningful

 

You said that "I'd go as far as saying the examples of goals that have stood in similar cirumstances were the incorrect decisions", so you don't even believe your own argument because they'll be contributing to that  94% statistic and yet you've said that they should be inccorect decisions?

 

IIRC they've been classed as incorrect decisions, hence me stating that. I can't be arsed spending the time it'll take to look it up though, so no worries if you won't take my word for that at face value. 

 

As I pointed out in my post earlier, the fact there is no unanimous rulebook for how to apply VAR amongst the PL refs make PL VAR shit and I am no longer defending its use in the PL because you're doing it 100% wrong  No wonder you all hate VAR. The entire purpose of VAR is these are the actual rules and we apply them, not hurdy-gurdy-I-Like-Liverpool, this is a goal!!1.

 

Jesus fucking christ, man  How can your REFEREES not manage to reach a unanimous agreement on what the fucking rules of football are?!  

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Kaizero

[madras]

Just now, Kaizero said:

 

IIRC they've been classed as incorrect decisions, hence me stating that. I can't be arsed spending the time it'll take to look it up though, so no worries if you won't take my word for that at face value. 

 

As I pointed out in my post earlier, the fact there is no unanimous rulebook for how to apply VAR amongst the PL refs make PL VAR shit and I am no longer defending its use in the PL because you're doing it 100% wrong  No wonder you all hate VAR.

 

It's not that we hate VAR, we hate that they get stuff obviously wrong  and VAR was supposed to put an end to that. 

[joeyt]

3 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

IIRC they've been classed as incorrect decisions, hence me stating that. I can't be arsed spending the time it'll take to look it up though, so no worries if you won't take my word for that at face value. 

 

 

 

Classed by who? I don't think any of  the ones posted today have been classed as incorrect decisions? I won't take your word for it unless you can find an example of the FA admitting it was an incorrect decision for one of the other incidents

 

I feel as if you've jst thrown a random dubious statistic in there and you've not thought it through or believed your own argument

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by joeyt

[Kaizero]

Just now, madras said:

It's not that we hate VAR, we hate that they get stuff obviously wrong  and VAR was supposed to put an end to that. 

 

To be fair, most people watching football aren't 100% aware of all the rules of the game. I know far too many people that don't realise the offside rule requires at least two players ahead of the player being passed the ball, not one.

[Bimpy474]

4 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Thought  Dennis was off for some reason  Pretending he was though the point is that just standing offside is fine.

 

Intercepting/playing isn’t really anything to get stuck over though, he was fully in control of what to do with the ball. He had to opportunity to put his foot through it.

 

The second clearance attempt that's being overlooked. The ball never went direct to Longstaff, it went to their player to clear it into Longstaff. 

 

Whatever our opinions on the merits of offside/onside, active/inactive etc. The law now means we had a perfectly good goal ruled out, and the officials on the pitch and in the VAR room showed their ineptitude, it's just a shambles.

[madras]

Just now, Kaizero said:

 

To be fair, most people watching football aren't 100% aware of all the rules of the game. I know far too many people that don't realise the offside rule requires at least two players ahead of the player being passed the ball, not one.

That goes for players as well amazingly.

[Kaizero]

Just now, joeyt said:

Classed by who? I don't think any of  the ones posted today have been classed as incorrect decisions? I won't take your word for it unless you can find an example of the FA admitting it was an incorrect decision for one of the other incidents

 

I feel as if you've jst thrown a random dubious statistic in there and you've not thought it through or believed your own argument

 

I've cited sources for my argument after being asked for them, so no. 

 

I checked, it was classed as a correct decision. I stand corrected on my assumption.

[joeyt]

So again last night's decision will go in with your 'correct decision' percentage despite 99% of fans, pundits and referees are interpreting it as an incorrect decision.

 

It's a meaningless stat

[Wullie]

9 hours ago, snabelkabel said:

I can’t remember what game it was, but i can see the play clearly in my head still. Where there was a theoughball to a player in offside position and one of our defenders made like a slide/tackle to try and stop the pass, got a toe to it, but it still ended up at the opposition player in a offside position, whom scored. I was shocked by the decition to let the goal stand then, and was told he made a deliberate atempt at the ball.

 

Are you talking about a Newcastle game here? If not, this was a high profile example of exactly that.

 

 

[Kaizero]

11 minutes ago, joeyt said:

So again last night's decision will go in with your 'correct decision' percentage despite 99% of fans, pundits and referees are interpreting it as an incorrect decision.

 

It's a meaningless stat

 

It's correct, though. Just because 99% of people are wrong doesn't make it any less correct. Just as even if all Republicans are adamant the election was stolen from Trump, it wasn't stolen from Trump. Facts are facts, even if you disagree with them.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Kaizero

[Unbelievable]

So, rather refreshingly, and as I have alluded to before is quite common, a Eredivisie referee has apologised on camera for making the wrong decision not awarding a penalty for this incident, even after being asked to check by VAR:

 

 

Referees are people. People make mistakes. At least own up to them.

[joeyt]

Just now, Kaizero said:

 

It's correct, though. Just because 99% of people are wrong doesn't make it any less correct. Just as even if all Republicans are adamant the election was stolen from Trump, it wasn't stolen from Trump. Facts are facts, even if you disagree with them.

 

 

 

 

You're not even convinced yourself that the decision last night was the correct one

[Kaizero]

Just now, joeyt said:

 

You're not even convinced yourself that the decision last night was the correct one

 

I've never said it wasn't correct? 

[joeyt]

1 minute ago, Kaizero said:

 

I've never said it wasn't correct? 

 

No what I'm saying is I'm not convinced that even you believe that last night's was the correct decision, I think you're just trying to convince yourself it was the correct decision to help your argument

 

[Pata]

Feel like people forget how the terrible the officiating was pre-VAR. There's a reason why it was introduced in the first place and it wasn't because referees were good. 

[joeyt]

2 minutes ago, Pata said:

Feel like people forget how the terrible the officiating was pre-VAR. There's a reason why it was introduced in the first place and it wasn't because referees were good. 

 

Lots of money?

[gbandit]

It’s genuinely sad to think about the amount of money spent on VAR, and how it’s largely had a detrimental impact on the game, adding only further controversy and delays in a huge number of instances

[Kid Icarus]

Of course, the once in a blue moon where a ref stands by his decision to allow a goal when it's clearly the wrong decision.  Yet another terrible weekend for referees and VAR. Wolves have had it bad the last couple of weeks, Johnny's red notwithstanding 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2023 by Kid Icarus