Dogawful Officiating

[Kaizero]

4 minutes ago, joeyt said:

You can't make a claim that there's "untold amounts of polling done among matchgoing fans in multiple nations that say it is" and not provide a single scrap of that evidence. You're telling me you've previously read all nations annual reports and that's how you know it? But can't find one now? Or anything else?

 

Here's some opinion polls for you:

 

https://yougov.co.uk/sport/articles/49627-9-out-of-10-premier-league-viewers-want-changes-to-var-or-for-it-to-be-scrapped-altogether

 

 

The only thing I can't comprehend is that YouGov, which I believed was a serious pollster, has published a poll using a sample size of 531 individuals –  below their own threshold for how many individuals needing to be polled for a poll to reflect a realistic sample size (1000 individuals). 

 

Here's a more recent poll (yours was from 2019) utilizing a proper sample size of individuals polled:

 

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-13433701/Fans-VAR-result-poll-technology.html 

[joeyt]

What do you mean mine was from 2019? It's literally got stats of the opinions from last season

[Kaizero]

20 minutes ago, joeyt said:

What do you mean mine was from 2019? It's literally got stats of the opinions from last season

 

That's my bad, went back after your post to check and realized I had missed the overall context of this bit: "At the beginning of the 2019-2020 season"

 

FWIW, after 23/24 matches this season, we'd have been 8 points off CL spot, Arsenal would be top and Man Utd would be 4 points behind us in 10th. Even though our opinion would obviously be biased, I'd find it hard to argue against VAR having been a positive for us this season. 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 21:12 by Kaizero

[Colos Short and Curlies]

9 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

That's my bad, went back after your post to check and realized I had missed the overall context of this bit: "At the beginning of the 2019-2020 season"

 

FWIW, after 23/24 matches this season, we'd have been 8 points off CL spot, Arsenal would be top and Man Utd would be 4 points behind us in 10th. Even though our opinion would obviously be biased, I'd find it hard to argue against VAR having been a positive for us this season. 

 

 

 

 

That's ignoring the way referees now officiate though, a number of decisions referred to VAR would be dealt with differently if the ref was the only one able to make a decision.

 

 

[The Prophet]

2 hours ago, joeyt said:

 

This absolutely isn't true

 

I barely celebrate a goal now, it's always in the back of your mind that some dweeb in Stockley Park might chalk it off.

 

The one time I got carried away was when Isak buried it v Arsenal in the Carabao Cup SF second leg

[Lush Vlad]

21 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

I barely celebrate a goal now, it's always in the back of your mind that some dweeb in Stockley Park might chalk it off.

 

The one time I got carried away was when Isak buried it v Arsenal in the Carabao Cup SF second leg

So did I. I thought it looked off. But then got all caught up in the emotion and went bananas  
 

Meant I then didn’t go as mad for the next two. Felt like they both could have been tight. 

[Kaizero]

33 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

I barely celebrate a goal now, it's always in the back of your mind that some dweeb in Stockley Park might chalk it off.

 

Before VAR, would you have said the following; "I barely celebrate a goal now, it's always in the back of your mind that some dweeb with a flag on the touchline might raise it and chalk it off" instead?

 

If not, you not celebrating a goal anymore isn't VAR's fault. It's completely your own doing. The fact the VAR-moaners moan about it when you can look at concrete statistical evidence disproving their reason for moaning? That's what annoys me to no end, not that someone points out that "VAR isn't perfect", "VAR is a work in progress" or "we need to make VAR better" – these are all valid arguments, even as an argument for an anti-VAR standpoint. I have time for people who'd argue that VAR should be shelved until enough work had been done on it for it to function perfectly before re-introducing it to the game, similar to how the NFL shelved their video ref effort in the late 80s/early 90s for almost a decade until technology had caught up with expectations for it's efficiency. Because, again, these are valid arguments based on more than opposing how a concept makes a person convince themselves of something untrue, entirely on their own by their own hand.

 

There are many reasonable and valid critiques of VAR as a concept, as well as it's use and effectiveness and the implications those have on a wholesale basis for the game of football. If the anti-VAR lot focused more on actually making reasonable arguments against VAR that were based on reason and empirical statistic evidence, they'd have better luck than they do claiming VAR is to blame for what they're doing to themselves for no reason whatsoever.

 

 

[Kaizero]

32 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

So did I. I thought it looked off. But then got all caught up in the emotion and went bananas  
 

Meant I then didn’t go as mad for the next two. Felt like they both could have been tight. 

 

Did anyone on here even flinch at the news the chances of Earth being struck by a meteor in 2032 had risen as high as 3.2%, or did everyone just brush it off and go about life as normal given the fact they knew the chances that it'd happen were so low that it shouldn't, logically and sensibly, have any effect on their lives on a day to day basis?

 

The chances of VAR overturning a goal is 1/4th lower than the chance of that meteorite hitting earth. Sure, given a large enough sample size you'll find that it does happen – but should it in any way effect your life on a day to day basis? Fuck no. 

 

If you no longer celebrate goals like you used to because VAR is a thing, I expect you quiver in fear daily given the fact you "know" Earth is getting struck by a meteor in just 7 years, because for every 100 times that meteor passes Earth, it will hit Earth 25% more often than VAR overturns a goal per 100 goals scored. Just because there's fewer meteorites with that chance of impacting Earth passing us than there is goals scored in professional football doesn't mean it's not more dumb to no longer celebrate goals like you used to than it'd be to prepare for a meteor impact in 2032 and have that negatively impact your life. 

 

Like fuck am I going to not celebrate Newcastle scoring a goal. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for me to not celebrate one. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 23:07 by Kaizero

[Rod]

12 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Before VAR, would you have said the following; "I barely celebrate a goal now, it's always in the back of your mind that some dweeb with a flag on the touchline might raise it and chalk it off" instead?

 

If not, you not celebrating a goal anymore isn't VAR's fault. It's completely your own doing. The fact the VAR-moaners moan about it when you can look at concrete statistical evidence disproving their reason for moaning? That's what annoys me to no end, not that someone points out that "VAR isn't perfect", "VAR is a work in progress" or "we need to make VAR better" – these are all valid arguments, even as an argument for an anti-VAR standpoint. I have time for people who'd argue that VAR should be shelved until enough work had been done on it for it to function perfectly before re-introducing it to the game, similar to how the NFL shelved their video ref effort in the late 80s/early 90s for almost a decade until technology had caught up with expectations for it's efficiency. Because, again, these are valid arguments based on more than opposing how a concept makes a person convince themselves of something untrue, entirely on their own by their own hand.

 

There are many reasonable and valid critiques of VAR as a concept, as well as it's use and effectiveness and the implications those have on a wholesale basis for the game of football. If the anti-VAR lot focused more on actually making reasonable arguments against VAR that were based on reason and empirical statistic evidence, they'd have better luck than they do claiming VAR is to blame for what they're doing to themselves for no reason whatsoever.

 

 

VAR is brilliant.  I love it.  People that don't understand fairness are the problem.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I definitely don't celebrate in the same way as before VAR. Comparing it to the linesman's flag is silly, that's instant and you can see it at a glance. 

 

To be more accurate it's the goals that might be offside that I don't celebrate as much, with others I normally don't consider the ways it could be ruled out. 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 23:30 by AyeDubbleYoo

[The Prophet]

1 hour ago, Rod said:

VAR is brilliant.  I love it.  People that don't understand fairness are the problem.

 

I understand the fairness element of it, but when VAR starts becoming involved in highly subjective decisions that aren't "clear and obvious" is that fair? Or is it an additional and unnecessary layer of officiating?

[et tu brute]

Did the camera show if Oliver had a decent view of that challenge? I've only seen a YouTube clip of it

[Shearergol]

7 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

Did the camera show if Oliver had a decent view of that challenge? I've only seen a YouTube clip of it

Didn’t even stop the game for the head injury, so safe to say he didn’t see it properly.

[Bizza]

15 minutes ago, et tu brute said:

Did the camera show if Oliver had a decent view of that challenge? I've only seen a YouTube clip of it

 

 

Had a clear view, absolutely comical that VAR had to intervene tbh.

 

Glad he can't do our games.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 01:09 by Bizza

[Shearergol]

1 minute ago, Bizza said:

 

 

Had a clear view, absolutely comical that VAR had to interven tbh.

 

Glad he can't do our games.

He’s looking to see where the ball is going He’s always been terrible tbf 

[80]

4 hours ago, Kaizero said:

All that said, the only thing that genuinely matter when it comes to whether or not VAR should be used or not is this; do the referees want it? 

 

Given that the answer to that question is a pretty much universel "yes", everyone else should shut the fuck up about it as it doesn't have any effect on their jobs and is making an already incredibly stressful and unthankful job done by other people, better. The name of this thread is a perfect example of how unthankful the job of being a professional referee is.

Please continue your comedy act. Do you think that if VAR becomes so efficient, maybe driven by AI, that referees start being made redundant that we should then scrap VAR? To make sure they don't face the stress of a life on benefits.

[Kaizero]

26 minutes ago, 80 said:

Please continue your comedy act. Do you think that if VAR becomes so efficient, maybe driven by AI, that referees start being made redundant that we should then scrap VAR? To make sure they don't face the stress of a life on benefits.

 

AI will inevitably remove many professions we know today, if that's the case for referees then that's the case for referees. I don't see what point you're making, as that's not the case at present. Being a professional referee in sports is an ungrateful job, you'll be abused for any and all mistakes you make (and it's human to make mistakes), yet receive no credit for all the correct decisions you make. 

 

Please continue your passive aggressive commentary. Again, there's tons of actual, credible arguments against VAR. These are being raised for discussion quite often by professionals involved in the development of the sport, though very often without any supporter input. Mainly because supporters can't wrap their heads around actual issues with the technology and its implementation and would rather focus on non-existant issues they've gaslit themselves into believing exist, and these issues naturally add no value to genuine discussion about any challenges related to VAR-use and implementation.

 

Pierluigi Collina recently did an interview where he acknowledged legitimate issues related to VAR, as well as what is being done to improve these. I'd recommend people went and read it as it offers some genuine insight into VAR as a technology and what it actually does, which is a massive amount more than what little you witness watching a game live or on TV. He also stated that the end goal for VAR use isn't "shorter amounts of time spent making a decision", it's "no breaks in play". It's a work in progress and through practical implementation and usage it's a technology that has improved with each season it's been used.

 

An argument could be made for it having been implemented into professional football "too early" in its development, as well as how the lack of universal rules for how referees are to make use of it varying between each individual nation's FA's. It's an argument I mostly agree with, as well, as I believe VAR's introduction to the game at a professional level was far too rushed and had a too short period, and sample size, of practical tests before implementation. We are where we are now though, and I've even witness the first tournament played of professional football where I had zero complaints about the officiating (EC 2024) from start to finish, and I expect many more will follow. I did have complaints about the new shitty Rules of the Game update implemented just days before the EC kicked off, though.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 02:05 by Kaizero

[et tu brute]

1 hour ago, Bizza said:

 

 

Had a clear view, absolutely comical that VAR had to intervene tbh.

 

Glad he can't do our games.

 

 

 

Aye he is, having a poor year, but for missing that first time, he should be demoted. He won't be though as they will say right decision eventually given

 

 

Edited Sunday at 02:30 by et tu brute

[Lush Vlad]

7 hours ago, Kaizero said:

 

Did anyone on here even flinch at the news the chances of Earth being struck by a meteor in 2032 had risen as high as 3.2%, or did everyone just brush it off and go about life as normal given the fact they knew the chances that it'd happen were so low that it shouldn't, logically and sensibly, have any effect on their lives on a day to day basis?

 

The chances of VAR overturning a goal is 1/4th lower than the chance of that meteorite hitting earth. Sure, given a large enough sample size you'll find that it does happen – but should it in any way effect your life on a day to day basis? Fuck no. 

 

If you no longer celebrate goals like you used to because VAR is a thing, I expect you quiver in fear daily given the fact you "know" Earth is getting struck by a meteor in just 7 years, because for every 100 times that meteor passes Earth, it will hit Earth 25% more often than VAR overturns a goal per 100 goals scored. Just because there's fewer meteorites with that chance of impacting Earth passing us than there is goals scored in professional football doesn't mean it's not more dumb to no longer celebrate goals like you used to than it'd be to prepare for a meteor impact in 2032 and have that negatively impact your life. 

 

Like fuck am I going to not celebrate Newcastle scoring a goal. There's absolutely no reason whatsoever for me to not celebrate one. 

 

 

 

What the fuck are you waffling on about?!  

[Hanshithispantz]

Kaiz are you medicating your ADHD with shatter?

[Nobody]

I'm so happy I was born in Sweden and not Norway so I can still attend games and not have to worry about stupid fucking VAR ruining the experience. 

[El Prontonise]

Kaiz goes full HTT mode...

[joeyt]

9 hours ago, Kaizero said:

 

Before VAR, would you have said the following; "I barely celebrate a goal now, it's always in the back of your mind that some dweeb with a flag on the touchline might raise it and chalk it off" instead?.

 

 

 

You can't compare a quick glance at the lino to having in the back of your mind that VAR could cancel a goal for any reason minutes after the goal has been scored

[The Prophet]

It's a trade off and whether you think a higher percentage of correct decisions is worth the decline in experience as a football fan (re-refing borderline decisions, the length of time to make a decision, the lack of communication, etc).

 

There isn't a right or wrong answer, but in my experience watching and supporting football, I don't think that it is.

[Hanshithispantz]

 

Any arguments @Kaizero?

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 10:03 by Hanshithispantz