Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Zidane was also a late bloomer so HTT is off with that one as well. Also sometimes a face doesn't fit, our very own David Ginola is an example of that. Same with Cantona too. Good point actually, but unlike Zidane, you just can't imagine Ben Arfa reaching such heights and maybe that's also down to the other factor which you have highlighted, i.e. his face just not fitting. Ben Arfa has more ability than Ginola and Cantona for me though. Both great individuals of course but they were limited in ways which Ben Arfa isn't. For me, Ben Arfa is the best French talent of his generation. If he somehow upped his game by 20-30% over and above of what he is showing now, he would get 20 plus goals a season, set up just as many and would without doubt be regarded as a genuine world-class player. Can he do it? He can but he needs to want it and to go for it as he did against Spurs. He grabbed the game by the scruff of the neck and stamped his mark on it. True great players do that every week. He has the ability so you just never know. This is a huge season for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Oh yeah, and nonchalantly knocks it in near post. Great goal. It was brilliant, a bit like the one at the Spuds, winner in a 2-1. Loved that one too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John P Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 It's an Arabic name. It is pronounced exactly as it is written, Hatem. The H in this instance is a pronunciation that doesn't exist in English or French. This is the right answer according to my Arabic friend at work, who pronounces the H in a different way and then the rest is pretty much the same as English. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpal78 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Based on what HTT and Ronaldo think of Beardsley, what I want to know then is how does Beardsley compare to Messi because skill wise I don't think HBA is too far off from Messi. The only difference (which is of course rather important) is that Messi delivers in almost every game he plays (at least for Barcelona) whereas HBA does not show such consistency (yet). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Beardsley was a great player but let's get too carried away. Messi is on a different planet, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hatem and the consistency thing. I can see where it comes from but when we punt it (only sometimes now), and like on Saturday where we didn't get the ball to him until the 10 minute mark. He needs to see more of the ball and thats down to how we play for him to be consistent and involved in games. Messi is the focal point of Barca's attacks and with their style and possesion will always see more of the ball. Its so hard to compare players unless they play in the exactly the same role in exactly the same team. Saying that Messi is going on to probably be the best player there been so far, looking at his age now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Based on what HTT and Ronaldo think of Beardsley, what I want to know then is how does Beardsley compare to Messi because skill wise I don't think HBA is too far off from Messi. The only difference (which is of course rather important) is that Messi delivers in almost every game he plays (at least for Barcelona) whereas HBA does not show such consistency (yet). I personally think Ben Arfa is way way way behind Messi in terms of skill and technical ability. Mess can co-ordinate footwork, skills, movement and technical ability all together in nanoseconds against any opponent, at any level, at any moment, and that's what's so scary about his ability. Some players like Ben Arfa can do it as he did against Blackburn or Bolton but he cannot and never will be able to do it in every game or any game regardless which Messi can. Beardsley didn't have the rapid accelleration on the ball and with the ball which Messi has nor did he have that ability to put his whole array of skills together in one instant for example like Messi does or can. That's not to say Beardsley couldn't dribble past 5 players and lob the 'keeper with an acute bit of skill for example, he could, but it had to be on for him more often han not if you like in general whereas with Messi he can create that kind of scenario willy nilly regardless. Anyway, they are all totally different kind of players. Beardsley was a number 2 type of forward, a support striker if you like or an advance attacking midfielder which is now becoming the modern role, where as Ben Arfa is perhaps more of a playmaker or wide man/dribble type. Messi is.... well he is a striker, a centre-forward, a midfielder, a winger, an anchor-man, he's just mind blowingly incredible wherever he plays on the pitch. In short Messi >>>>>>>> Beardsley >>>> Ben Arfa >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cattermole Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Insanely talented, proud to see him play for us. Have a feeling that this season is the one for him where the world will take real notice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hatem and the consistency thing. I can see where it comes from but when we punt it (only sometimes now), and like on Saturday where we didn't get the ball to him until the 10 minute mark. He needs to see more of the ball and thats down to how we play for him to be consistent and involved in games. Messi is the focal point of Barca's attacks and with their style and possesion will always see more of the ball. Its so hard to compare players unless they play in the exactly the same role in exactly the same team. Saying that Messi is going on to probably be the best player there been so far, looking at his age now. I actually feel he is pretty consistent in terms of end product such as goals, assists and general attacking play. You do feel though given his extreme abilities and skills he could do far more and become far more. There is nothing lacking in his game in terms of ability to say that he cannot score 20 goals and create as many for example given the likes of Lampard, Rooney, Van Persie et al get to such high figures. What we need to do is build the team around him, give him total freedom in an attacking sense and get the ball to him as much as possible. Yes he will not always beat his man and he will give the ball away but for me his showing against Spurs is probably less than 50% of his true capabilities and look at how he did them. As for his work ethic off the ball, tracking back etc., anyone who says he does neither or little of doesn't have a clue because he does that in abundance which is all the more remarkable given how much effort he puts into beating his man, trying to score and create and to win games etc. which is a lot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hatem and the consistency thing. I can see where it comes from but when we punt it (only sometimes now), and like on Saturday where we didn't get the ball to him until the 10 minute mark. He needs to see more of the ball and thats down to how we play for him to be consistent and involved in games. Messi is the focal point of Barca's attacks and with their style and possesion will always see more of the ball. Its so hard to compare players unless they play in the exactly the same role in exactly the same team. Saying that Messi is going on to probably be the best player there been so far, looking at his age now. I actually feel he is pretty consistent in terms of end product such as goals, assists and general attacking play. You do feel though given his extreme abilities and skills he could do far more and become far more. There is nothing lacking in his game in terms of ability to say that he cannot score 20 goals and create as many for example given the likes of Lampard, Rooney, Van Persie et al get to such high figures. What we need to do is build the team around him, give him total freedom in an attacking sense and get the ball to him as much as possible. Yes he will not always beat his man and he will give the ball away but for me his showing against Spurs is probably less than 50% of his true capabilities and look at how he did them. As for his work ethic off the ball, tracking back etc., anyone who says he does neither or little of doesn't have a clue because he does that in abundance which is all the more remarkable given how much effort he puts into beating his man, trying to score and create and to win games etc. which is a lot. Agreed mate. We definitely need to get the ball to him more. I would rather see him lose the ball twice a game while trying something than him never losing it because we dont get it to him. I've seen every minute of him here and i dont care what anyone says he does work hard when we dont have the ball. Postional defending is maybe a bit off but that isn't why he's in the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hatem and the consistency thing. I can see where it comes from but when we punt it (only sometimes now), and like on Saturday where we didn't get the ball to him until the 10 minute mark. He needs to see more of the ball and thats down to how we play for him to be consistent and involved in games. Messi is the focal point of Barca's attacks and with their style and possesion will always see more of the ball. Its so hard to compare players unless they play in the exactly the same role in exactly the same team. Saying that Messi is going on to probably be the best player there been so far, looking at his age now. I actually feel he is pretty consistent in terms of end product such as goals, assists and general attacking play. You do feel though given his extreme abilities and skills he could do far more and become far more. There is nothing lacking in his game in terms of ability to say that he cannot score 20 goals and create as many for example given the likes of Lampard, Rooney, Van Persie et al get to such high figures. What we need to do is build the team around him, give him total freedom in an attacking sense and get the ball to him as much as possible. Yes he will not always beat his man and he will give the ball away but for me his showing against Spurs is probably less than 50% of his true capabilities and look at how he did them. As for his work ethic off the ball, tracking back etc., anyone who says he does neither or little of doesn't have a clue because he does that in abundance which is all the more remarkable given how much effort he puts into beating his man, trying to score and create and to win games etc. which is a lot. Agreed mate. We definitely need to get the ball to him more. I would rather see him lose the ball twice a game while trying something than him never losing it because we dont get it to him. I've seen every minute of him here and i dont care what anyone says he does work hard when we dont have the ball. Postional defending is maybe a bit off but that isn't why he's in the team. Now as for Simpson... That's all I had to say. I <3 Simmo btw, I'm not one of his constant crucifiers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 This thread needs more pictures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henke Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Now wearing Nike boots? 3rd boot manufaturer in 12 months for HBA, he must just order them off pro-direct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 IMO, he is the most exciting and entertaining player to watch in the Premier League. Trying to be unbiased as possible, I can't think of anyone who surpasses him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Catts for me like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiotes Witch Doctor Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Catts for me like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Is he the single most gifted footballer to ever play for Newcastle? A better player than Shearer? A more talented player than Gazza? A better brain than Beardo? I know Ben Arfa could do with playing a full season before being mentioned among these players but does it really matter? O'Sullivan is considered the most naturally gifted snooker player, without winning every tournament? Just thought I'd open up a can of worms Peter Beardsley was twice the player Ben Arfa is and I love our Frenchman. Beardsley had it all. In many ways Ben Arfa, given his talent, should be up there as one of the best players in the world but he isn't and that is down to inconsistency and from what Pardew alluded to, perhaps a rather lacklustre approach to training. That and his attitude of course. He is 26 now and should be for France for example what Zidane was, their main man. That's the kind of talent he has. Back to Beardsley, he would be worth 30m or so today. Easily. Beardsley was an extremely hard working player in the mould of say Tevez or Rooney but he was immaculately discplined. He had amazing vision and his dribblibg, sorry but as good as Ben Arfa is, Beardsley was twinkle toes. He was genuinley two footed as well and could score all manner of goals from all over the park. He was an unselfish player too and a real team-player. People say Gazza is the best we have ever produced but do you know what, in terms of general all-round ability and being able to put it to full use, I don't think this region has produced anyone as food as Beardsley. If we had him today, he would make the difference between Europa and CL footy. Great post, couldn't agree more. Speaking of Pedro being two footed; that last minute goal down at Palace in 94-95, man. Past two players and top corner with the left foot from 20+ yards. I'll consider myself pretty lucky if I ever witness an NUFC player with that level of ability again. Agree with HTT and Ronaldo points... Beardsley is the best player i've seen playing for NUFC... I'd honestly put 100 of Beardsley's best goals and assists up against anybodies and they wouldn't be disgraced... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattypnufc Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Beardsley would be worth an absolute fortune if he was in his prime now. Not saying as good as Messi, but he'd certainly be in the second tier of gifted footballers, ala Ribery, Robben. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 What kind of wages do we think he'll be on? Might be quite low if he knew he wasn't the player he should be when he signed and therefor couldn't demand high wages. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 £30-35k basic... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishmael Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Now wearing Nike boots? 3rd boot manufaturer in 12 months for HBA, he must just order them off pro-direct. He wore Nike at the start of last season also. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toon_Mad_Chris Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 £30-35k basic... If that's true it would be wise of us to improve his contract and also extend it. The likes of spurs and Liverpool would kill for a player like Ben Arfa and if (heaven forbid) we have a poor season we might just end up with another Jose Enrique situation. We should try and tie him down now while his morale's good as we should have done with Enrique when he was waxing lyrical and saying he would stop here for the rest of his career. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnonel Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Hatem and the consistency thing. I can see where it comes from but when we punt it (only sometimes now), and like on Saturday where we didn't get the ball to him until the 10 minute mark. He needs to see more of the ball and thats down to how we play for him to be consistent and involved in games. Messi is the focal point of Barca's attacks and with their style and possesion will always see more of the ball. Its so hard to compare players unless they play in the exactly the same role in exactly the same team. Saying that Messi is going on to probably be the best player there been so far, looking at his age now. I think the question is - how good would Ben Arfa be at Barcelona, or how well would Messi do at NUFC. We shouldnt forget the quality of the players around you. Thats why Smith/Butt/etc can be ok at MANURE whilst crap everywhere else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_R Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 £30-35k basic... If that's true it would be wise of us to improve his contract and also extend it. The likes of spurs and Liverpool would kill for a player like Ben Arfa and if (heaven forbid) we have a poor season we might just end up with another Jose Enrique situation. We should try and tie him down now while his morale's good as we should have done with Enrique when he was waxing lyrical and saying he would stop here for the rest of his career. If at all possible, we should certainly try to get Ben Arfa tied down for 5 years. That said, he's got 3 years left still so it's not like he's in the danger zone yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 yeah signed a 4 & 1/2 year deal in January 2011 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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