Guest JS Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 If any of you play any kind of sport that you love, you'll probably understand just how much damage recurring injuries do to your well being and motivation. It's an absolute c*** to be doing well, get sidelined and not able to run / train, then have to go through fast paced and tough fitness work to get back up to speed only to be hampered again. It's f***ing soul destroying. I can't really blame the bloke, even as a professional footballer, to have let go a little after the carry on this season like. It's demoralising as f*** but if he's a dedicated professional (And I'm not sure too many people would question that) he'll have his eyes set on a world cup spot. Fingers crossed and hoping for the best that he comes back out of this hamstring saga like he was before He's came back strong from some nasty shit before, I hope he'll do it again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VanBarduck Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Miguel De Sousa @MiguelDeSousa8 Ben arfa à côté de moi au développé couché a la salle de sport à l'aquaboulevard ! Ben Arfa doing some bench press next to me at the Aquaboulevard Gym ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I miss HBA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Hindsight 20/20 etc etc, but if we hadn't made him slog so hard defensively would he still be fit? And more effective in attack? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Yeh mate it's all Pardew's fault. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Hindsight 20/20 etc etc, but if we hadn't made him slog so hard defensively would he still be fit? And more effective in attack? No. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just disagree with the notion that everyone in a team that isn't Man City should be expected to graft and be everywhere. Not everyone is suited to that sort of game and while having an attacking player track back helps the team defensively it also weakens our attack, simply because that same attacking player can't be in two places at once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just disagree with the notion that everyone in a team that isn't Man City should be expected to graft and be everywhere. Not everyone is suited to that sort of game and while having an attacking player track back helps the team defensively it also weakens our attack, simply because that same attacking player can't be in two places at once. He's only expected to graft because of the way we play, with the right manager you wouldn't want him in your own half. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Plan for next season, no point in him trying to get back this season at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just disagree with the notion that everyone in a team that isn't Man City should be expected to graft and be everywhere. Not everyone is suited to that sort of game and while having an attacking player track back helps the team defensively it also weakens our attack, simply because that same attacking player can't be in two places at once. What are you rambling on about? He's injured. To suggest it's because he's been asked to defend more than previously in his career is ludicrous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just disagree with the notion that everyone in a team that isn't Man City should be expected to graft and be everywhere. Not everyone is suited to that sort of game and while having an attacking player track back helps the team defensively it also weakens our attack, simply because that same attacking player can't be in two places at once. What are you rambling on about? He's injured. To suggest it's because he's been asked to defend more than previously in his career is ludicrous. The times I've seen him live he's worked pretty hard to track back recently given he's our most potent attacking threat. I don't think you can question his work rate, it's just his fitness which is the issue at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just disagree with the notion that everyone in a team that isn't Man City should be expected to graft and be everywhere. Not everyone is suited to that sort of game and while having an attacking player track back helps the team defensively it also weakens our attack, simply because that same attacking player can't be in two places at once. What are you rambling on about? He's injured. To suggest it's because he's been asked to defend more than previously in his career is ludicrous. Having a two-thread argument with Cajun I suppose Not talking about Ben Arfa specifically, just the idea that all attacking players should be expected to defend like Jonas as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 His position demands some defensive responsibility, I think he's been too deep this year but the work rate's fair enough. It's a fine balance, trying to be enough of a threat to keep the full back from pushing on but not staying so high that they capitalise on the space. We miss him creatively though, really badly, I really rate Marveaux as a creator but his mentality is what separates him from HBA. One will grab the game by the balls, the other waits for it to come to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just disagree with the notion that everyone in a team that isn't Man City should be expected to graft and be everywhere. Not everyone is suited to that sort of game and while having an attacking player track back helps the team defensively it also weakens our attack, simply because that same attacking player can't be in two places at once. The best teams in the world are the ones that are not only good on the ball but fantastic off it. Look at Barca, Madrid, Juve, Dortmund, Bayern etc etc they all hunt in packs and press off the ball superbly well you cannot be successful otherwise. Pressing as a team is a huge part of the game today.... no one is expecting Marveaux/HBA to run back to his own goal but what we do expect is to close the opposition down in zones. But again this isn't a Marveaux/HBA thing this is a Pardew thing, one of the very many problems we have is that we don't press properly. Every player in a successful team has to be able to put a shift in i don't care who you are, watch Swansea for a more mid table example.... when they lose the ball all their players and this includes the likes of Routledge are snapping at the heels of the opposition. There is no place in football if you want to be successful nowadays for luxury's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 His position demands some defensive responsibility, I think he's been too deep this year but the work rate's fair enough. It's a fine balance, trying to be enough of a threat to keep the full back from pushing on but not staying so high that they capitalise on the space. We miss him creatively though, really badly, I really rate Marveaux as a creator but his mentality is what separates him from HBA. One will grab the game by the balls, the other waits for it to come to him. His position only demands defensive responsibility because we base our game around defence and invite teams on to us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just disagree with the notion that everyone in a team that isn't Man City should be expected to graft and be everywhere. Not everyone is suited to that sort of game and while having an attacking player track back helps the team defensively it also weakens our attack, simply because that same attacking player can't be in two places at once. The best teams in the world are the ones that are not only good on the ball but fantastic off it. Look at Barca, Madrid, Juve, Dortmund, Bayern etc etc they all hunt in packs and press off the ball superbly well you cannot be successful otherwise. Pressing as a team is a huge part of the game today.... no one is expecting Marveaux/HBA to run back to his own goal but what we do expect is to close the opposition down in zones. But again this isn't a Marveaux/HBA thing this is a Pardew thing, one of the very many problems we have is that we don't press properly. Every player in a successful team has to be able to put a shift in i don't care who you are, watch Swansea for a more mid table example.... when they lose the ball all their players and this includes the likes of Routledge are snapping at the heels of the opposition. There is no place in football if you want to be successful nowadays for luxury's. You say no one is expecting them to run back to their own goal but that's exactly how we play. I'd be willing to bet that Ben Arfa's average position this season when receiving the ball is around right back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just disagree with the notion that everyone in a team that isn't Man City should be expected to graft and be everywhere. Not everyone is suited to that sort of game and while having an attacking player track back helps the team defensively it also weakens our attack, simply because that same attacking player can't be in two places at once. The best teams in the world are the ones that are not only good on the ball but fantastic off it. Look at Barca, Madrid, Juve, Dortmund, Bayern etc etc they all hunt in packs and press off the ball superbly well you cannot be successful otherwise. Pressing as a team is a huge part of the game today.... no one is expecting Marveaux/HBA to run back to his own goal but what we do expect is to close the opposition down in zones. But again this isn't a Marveaux/HBA thing this is a Pardew thing, one of the very many problems we have is that we don't press properly. Every player in a successful team has to be able to put a shift in i don't care who you are, watch Swansea for a more mid table example.... when they lose the ball all their players and this includes the likes of Routledge are snapping at the heels of the opposition. There is no place in football if you want to be successful nowadays for luxury's. Spot on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 His position will always demand defensive responsibility, that's part of being a right winger in the modern game as full backs bomb on. We should be looking to move forward and back as a unit, currently we only move back, that's where our problem lies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 I just disagree with the notion that everyone in a team that isn't Man City should be expected to graft and be everywhere. Not everyone is suited to that sort of game and while having an attacking player track back helps the team defensively it also weakens our attack, simply because that same attacking player can't be in two places at once. The best teams in the world are the ones that are not only good on the ball but fantastic off it. Look at Barca, Madrid, Juve, Dortmund, Bayern etc etc they all hunt in packs and press off the ball superbly well you cannot be successful otherwise. Pressing as a team is a huge part of the game today.... no one is expecting Marveaux/HBA to run back to his own goal but what we do expect is to close the opposition down in zones. But again this isn't a Marveaux/HBA thing this is a Pardew thing, one of the very many problems we have is that we don't press properly. Every player in a successful team has to be able to put a shift in i don't care who you are, watch Swansea for a more mid table example.... when they lose the ball all their players and this includes the likes of Routledge are snapping at the heels of the opposition. There is no place in football if you want to be successful nowadays for luxury's. Well said. Pressing properly isn't the same as expecting players to graft the way Jonas does, its about setting up the team right. And Wullie is probably right about Ben Arfa receiving the ball at RB most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 You say no one is expecting them to run back to their own goal but that's exactly how we play. I'd be willing to bet that Ben Arfa's average position this season when receiving the ball is around right back. Well i don't think anyone should but Pardew clearly seems to Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Ben Arfa became a much better player when Pardew got him to work harder on the pitch. He then made him less effective by positioning him deep and really wide. He needs to be in and around the box as part of a front 3 if he is to play wide, not part of a flat midfield 4, I don't think it's anything to do with his work rate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 HBA is far too deep unnecessarily, that is certainly true. I know transition play's been mentioned a bit on here and it's a huge flaw in our game plan, we don't take the right measures to make the chances of us getting the ball as favorable as possible. Often our wingers are positioned too deep when opposition full backs haven't even pushed on, so when we do get the ball back, there's no outlet in the wide areas, which is important for a counter attacking team like us. We're always trying to contain the opposition threat, inviting them on by trying to shut down as much space around the box as possible, we rarely force the issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VanBarduck Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 If he's doing muscle-building exercises on a sunday afternoon , does that mean he's really scheduled to come back before the end of the season , risky move from the staff IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Having been at Allianz Arena yesterday I loved the way Heynckes set his team out. One of the wingers defended as it became more a 5 man defensive line with two holding midfielders while Pizzarro, Kroos and Robben were allowe to stay up top without tracking to much down, I know we ain't Bayern, but the thought of leaving Sissoko, Cisse and Benny upfront when other teams attack will force other teams to keep at least 4 defenders at the back and not attack with fullbacks. Imagine the counter attacks we could pull. We need to have more balls tactically... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ujpest doza Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 Hindsight 20/20 etc etc, but if we hadn't made him slog so hard defensively would he still be fit? And more effective in attack? FFS man he done his hamstring while on the attack centrally against Maritimo not when he was tracking back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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