Hatem Ben Arfa

[Eddy Chibas]

Robert's vision & one-touch passing (to a midfielder on his inside, or the overlapping fullback) was high standard. I used to like his decision making, he knew when it was right time to use an outlet (on the burst) as a decoy before taking it upon himself to pull the trigger.

 

Definitely wasn't a one-dimensional ball-carrying winger. His qualities were put on a as show in a side whose central midfielders were not instructed to 'hold' a defensive position while in possession..... Pardoo-Ball would leave Robert isolated, easier to gang - up on without decoys & movement. I couldn't envision Robert amassing required stats Alain Pardoo lives & dies by.

[alpal78]

Robert's vision & one-touch passing (to a midfielder on his inside, or the overlapping fullback) was high standard. I used to like his decision making, he knew when it was right time to use an outlet (on the burst) as a decoy before taking it upon himself to pull the trigger.

 

Definitely wasn't a one-dimensional ball-carrying winger. His qualities were put on a as show in a side whose central midfielders were not instructed to 'hold' a defensive position while in possession..... Pardoo-Ball would leave Robert isolated, easier to gang - up on without decoys & movement. I couldn't envision Robert amassing required stats Alain Pardoo lives & dies by.

 

This. It's silly to compare Robert and HBA when the two played under two different systems with two vastly different managers, one known for dynamic open attacking and the other dross boring defensive football.

[tmonkey]

Anyone got minutes per goal/assist stats for Ben Arfa/Robert/Ginola/Bellamy?  Would put this end product argument to bed.

 

In terms of Robert vs Ben Arfa goals only:

 

Robert scored 22 Premiership goals in 129 games. Average of 1 goal per 5.8 games. Total minutes on pitch of 9,562, so a goal every 434 minutes in the Premiership.

 

Ben Arfa has scored 13 goals in 73 Premiership games. Average of 1 goal per 5.6 games. Total minutes on pitch of 4,403 so a goal every 338 minutes in the Premiership.

[Interpolic]

Good work.  Where did you get your stats from?

[tmonkey]

Good work.  Where did you get your stats from?

 

ESPN for games/goals, Soccerway and Transfermarket for minutes. No idea if they're accurate, but difficult to know otherwise unless there's a better source readily available.

 

Assists on ESPN seem to be wrong for Robert, but I have it as Robert with a total of 33 assists during his time here (16 in 01/02, 5 in 02/03, 7 in 03/04, and 5 in 04/05), Ben Arfa with 10 so far (0 in 10/11, 5 in 11/12, 2 in 12/13, and 3 in 13/14).

 

So Robert = an assist per 3.9 games or every 289 minutes.

Ben Arfa = an assist per 7.3 games or every 440 minutes.

[Optimistic Nut]

When Hatem was scoring and making goals he was in the side.

 

I'm not justifying his exclusion one bit, but to say Pardew would've ignored a goal and assist machine like Robert because he didn't do much defending is stretching things.

 

[Hughesy]

Not sure there is much comparing Robert and Ben Arfa. They are playing in completely different teams in terms of personnel and set up and under managers with different footballing outlooks. Put Ben Arfa in the SBR team and he'd have thrived and Robert would have struggled hugely in the current team.

[buzza]

Not sure there is much comparing Robert and Ben Arfa. They are playing in completely different teams in terms of personnel and set up and under managers with different footballing outlooks. Put Ben Arfa in the SBR team and he'd have thrived and Robert would have struggled hugely in the current team.

Just want to add that the fanbase was completely split on Robert because of the HUGE whole lacking in his game, defensive work. It really was non-existant but he was forgiven because every third game he would score a screamer.

If I was forced to compare I would say Ben-Arfa offers more to the team on a global scale than Robert.

[Guest Walter]

Not sure there is much comparing Robert and Ben Arfa. They are playing in completely different teams in terms of personnel and set up and under managers with different footballing outlooks. Put Ben Arfa in the SBR team and he'd have thrived and Robert would have struggled hugely in the current team.

 

QFT

[Interpolic]

I really can't wait until the day I don't have to read his absolute bullshit any more.  Can't stand the fackin old cant.

[Hanshithispantz]

When Hatem was scoring and making goals he was in the side.

 

I'm not justifying his exclusion one bit, but to say Pardew would've ignored a goal and assist machine like Robert because he didn't do much defending is stretching things.

He set up the winner on Saturday and was dropped for the game 3 days later

 

This is hardly a new thing either, it was happening 3 years ago when Pardew was apparently playing it perfectly.

[Gallowgate Toon]

I still think Robert would've been more effective in this team - especially when we play 4-4-2 - and he'd have been excellent for Cisse, IMO. I also think Pardew would've liked the fact that he was a threat from deeper positions with his shooting and crossing, it would've meant less gaps to be exploited. Terrible philosophy, of course, I just think that's the kind of crap he always considers.

[Interpolic]

He also had an excellent game against Stoke (you know, the last time we scored more than 1 goal at home), he was dropped for the next game against Arsenal and has barely been seen since.

 

The treatment of him this year's been fucking appalling tbh.

[Ndegwa]

Oh for fuck sake how does the guy not get pulled up more for the shite he spouts. Disciplined? In what way? Gouffran out of position constantly and doing fuck all in both directions, Sissoko running around aimlessly with and without the ball, a strikeforce less intimidating than a dead kitten, a CB doing a shit impersonation of a RB, a central midfield pairing without enough creativity to even fill in a fucking colouring book....how people defend this pathetic excuse for a manager (and a human judging by his touch line antics since he's been here) is beyond me. The worst thing is that Pardew seems to think no-one can see right through him

[Interpolic]

Oh for fuck sake how does the guy not get pulled up more for the shite he spouts. Disciplined? In what way? Gouffran out of position constantly and doing fuck all in both directions, Sissoko running around aimlessly with and without the ball, a strikeforce less intimidating than a dead kitten, a CB doing a shit impersonation of a RB, a central midfield pairing without enough creativity to even fill in a fucking colouring book....how people defend this pathetic excuse for a manager (and a human judging by his touch line antics since he's been here) is beyond me. The worst thing is that Pardew seems to think no-one can see right through him

 

A lot of people can't tbh, he's been disproportionately critical of Ben Arfa in recent weeks and a lot of our fans have nodded along and followed suit. Sometimes wonder if they seriously just want to see 11 grafters.

[Hanshithispantz]

There's an obvious section of the older support who will always hark back to when footballers were men, and believe that just turning up and putting your body on the line is the be all end all of competitive sport, they also hate the blacks and smell weird. I cannot understand how any of the younger generation can sit by happy as one of the most exiting players we've had is reduced to a bit part role because he loses the ball a bit and doesn't like to defend, some even going to lengths to not just criticise him, but outright declare that he does nothing and is rightfully not in the squad because of his own actions. I cannot comprehend it at all.

[TRon]

HATEM Ben Arfa’s forced his way to the forefront of Alan Pardew’s mind – and could start against Southampton.

 

 

Ben Arfa has came off the bench in the club’s last two Premier League games.

 

And the forward’s performances have put him in the frame for a start at the St Mary’s Stadium tomorrow.

 

Newcastle are in desperate need of a creative spark in the final third of the pitch in the absence of the injured Loic Remy, who could return against Manchester United on April 5.

 

United manager Pardew could turn to Ben Arfa, who enlivened his team after coming on against Everton and Crystal Palace.

 

 

 

Pardew flip-flopping like a goldfish out of water again. How surprising.

[KaKa]

The bit about Everton is hilarious. Discipline? We got beat 3-0

 

 

The guy is a mad man.

 

"We got beat 0 - 3, but in a disciplined way"

[BrettNUFC]

Least Pardew admitting his application has been better and Carver admitting he's been listening to the team instructions prior to games and before he comes on. Can only bode well for Ben Arfa and the team if he carries that on.

[Dr.Spaceman]

A fooball gif :panic:

[joeyt]

A fooball gif :panic:

 

Paint represenation (courtesy of M4)

 

http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5007/robbern.jpg

[loki679]

“I want to make sure we deliver the best we can. We can only be the best we can be. What we showed against Everton the other night was a discipline to our game.

 

“In two thirds of the pitch we were good, but in the last third, we must improve. We must improve that against Southampton – the quality in that area.”

 

 

We shipped 3 goals .  It's like this idiot was trying to win 4-3 and half of it went to plan.

[DJ_NUFC]

Ronaldo, would you say Tevez is similarly an assist and goal machine that Pardew would never fuck around with? For your pleasure:

 

CARLOS TEVEZ stuck the knife into sacked former West Ham boss Alan Pardew.

 

Breaking his silence for the first time, the Argentinian midfielder insisted:

 

He was STUNNED Pardew was not sacked earlier;

 

His own talents were WASTED by being played out of position;

 

Pardew STRUGGLED to manage big-name foreign stars;

 

Pardew was WRONG to ignore the talents of fellow Argentine Javier Mascherano.

 

Tevez, who could start today in his preferred role as a central striker, said: "I was surprised to see how long Pardew held on to the job in the end.

 

"In Argentina or Brazil he would have been out long ago. It was clear the team did not react as he wanted — it wasn't going right.

 

"I was never given the chances I thought I would be given and I was told to play out of position against my will.

 

"I had to sacrifice myself for the team which I don't think helped. I was playing in ways I did not understand well and I lost a lot from my own game.

 

"It didn't fit where he put me, but I wanted to help."

 

Angry

 

The stress was too much for Tevez when he was substituted in the 1-0 win over Sheffield United and he stormed out of the ground and was later forced to apologise. He said: "I was a bit angry because I was playing as the second striker and I normally play as a No8.

 

"I am here to help but playing outside of my role puts me under pressure. I didn't think Teddy Sheringham would replace me but he did, but I know now that was wrong."

 

Tevez, who scored 25 goals in 38 games for Brazilian side Corinthians, has yet to score in 13 appearances for West Ham, the worst spell of his career.

 

That has contributed to the Hammers' dismal run of 11 defeats in 17 League games, a sickening cup defeat to minnows Chesterfield and a potentially disastrous relegation fight.

 

It led to Pardew's dismissal on Monday and Curbishley's immediate appointment. Tevez, 22, insisted he and Mascherano got on well with Pardew.

 

He said: "Pardew was always asking how we were and if we needed anything and for that I am grateful. But when the match came round, he would be more distant.

 

"I don't think he had a clear idea about my game or what to do. He was good football man but more suited to coaching English teams without foreign players with big reputations.

 

"I think that was a bit of a problem for him."

 

Tevez was mystified why Mascherano — linked with a move to Juventus — was not given a chance by Pardew.

 

He said: "It was strange not to have Javier playing. Especially as the team were struggling and losing. He is a very good player, doing well in training and he just wanted to play."

[ujpest doza]

Ronaldo, would you say Tevez is similarly an assist and goal machine that Pardew would never fuck around with? For your pleasure:

 

CARLOS TEVEZ stuck the knife into sacked former West Ham boss Alan Pardew.

 

Breaking his silence for the first time, the Argentinian midfielder insisted:

 

He was STUNNED Pardew was not sacked earlier;

 

His own talents were WASTED by being played out of position;

 

Pardew STRUGGLED to manage big-name foreign stars;

 

Pardew was WRONG to ignore the talents of fellow Argentine Javier Mascherano.

 

Tevez, who could start today in his preferred role as a central striker, said: "I was surprised to see how long Pardew held on to the job in the end.

 

"In Argentina or Brazil he would have been out long ago. It was clear the team did not react as he wanted — it wasn't going right.

 

"I was never given the chances I thought I would be given and I was told to play out of position against my will.

 

"I had to sacrifice myself for the team which I don't think helped. I was playing in ways I did not understand well and I lost a lot from my own game.

 

"It didn't fit where he put me, but I wanted to help."

 

Angry

 

The stress was too much for Tevez when he was substituted in the 1-0 win over Sheffield United and he stormed out of the ground and was later forced to apologise. He said: "I was a bit angry because I was playing as the second striker and I normally play as a No8.

 

"I am here to help but playing outside of my role puts me under pressure. I didn't think Teddy Sheringham would replace me but he did, but I know now that was wrong."

 

Tevez, who scored 25 goals in 38 games for Brazilian side Corinthians, has yet to score in 13 appearances for West Ham, the worst spell of his career.

 

That has contributed to the Hammers' dismal run of 11 defeats in 17 League games, a sickening cup defeat to minnows Chesterfield and a potentially disastrous relegation fight.

 

It led to Pardew's dismissal on Monday and Curbishley's immediate appointment. Tevez, 22, insisted he and Mascherano got on well with Pardew.

 

He said: "Pardew was always asking how we were and if we needed anything and for that I am grateful. But when the match came round, he would be more distant.

 

"I don't think he had a clear idea about my game or what to do. He was good football man but more suited to coaching English teams without foreign players with big reputations.

 

"I think that was a bit of a problem for him."

 

Tevez was mystified why Mascherano — linked with a move to Juventus — was not given a chance by Pardew.

 

He said: "It was strange not to have Javier playing. Especially as the team were struggling and losing. He is a very good player, doing well in training and he just wanted to play."

Without defending or attacking Pardew here, 2 things stand out from that.

 

1. Tevez had gone 13 games without scoring and is wondering why he was hooked.

 

2. Tevez sounds very self self self in that as well saying he was upset at having to sacrifice his own glory for the good of the team.

 

Tevez's subsequent hissy fits while playing for both Man Utd and Man City don't make him a good player to quote when looking to criticise Pardew.

 

Just saying like!

 

[DJ_NUFC]

The issue is about managing flair players like Tevez and HBA, who people like SBR and Keegan would have loved and nurtured much like they did with other "self self self" players such as Robert, Bellamy, Ginola, etc.

 

I'm not defending Tevez here, but highlighting an issue that seems to have been repeated at our club.