Hatem Ben Arfa

[Cajun]

Ridiculous if he doesn't start against Wolves, but I doubt he will. Fair enough he hasn't been brilliant since he came back but he offers a hell of a lot more than Obertan and Raylor in midfield.

 

Offensively....which doesnt matter that much in Pardews ( or Cajuns..) book..I mean - who cares right? Ba will take care of that feeding off scraps. As long as you sell yourself in as a grafter thats a hall pass for 20 games with pardew..

 

Yeah we have done s*** this season so far to be fair, I shouldn't argue though because this one player starting would have definitely lead to better results and we would more than likely be challenging Spurs for third

 

I honestly don't get this mentality/retort used whenever anyone has any criticism that we've done well so far, implying that we therefore must have done everything right. If we assume that we've done well already and it will stay this way till the end of the season, then let's just all jump hip hip hooray and not bother analyzing or commenting anymore on this forum. Why is it not possible to appreciate that yes we have done well so far whilst also suggesting that we could do better if we make some positive changes which quite frankly is staring us right in the face.

 

Because I don't believe starting Ben Arfa automatically makes us a better side

 

It might do but it's not the dead cert so many believe it to be. I think there is a bit more to football than this player is better than this player, this player MUST start or the manager has fucked up.

[Tooj]

Maybe our success this season has been more to do with the way we are set up than individual performances?

 

Unexpected Position/exceeding expectations > one player.

 

I really don't understand why you're being like this with Ben Arfa, yet you jumped to defend Ba at any available opportunity. 

[Sifu]

We need to attack Wolves from the off and for that reason, Ben Arfa should start. Just can't see Raylor/Obertan causing the Wolves defence as many problems as Ben Arfa.

[Cajun]

Maybe our success this season has been more to do with the way we are set up than individual performances?

 

Unexpected Position/exceeding expectations > one player.

 

I really don't understand why you're being like this with Ben Arfa, yet you jumped to defend Ba at any available opportunity. 

 

It's very similar actually in an odd way.

 

Some were being ridiculously harsh on Ba after about 105 minutes of football. Some are being ridiculously over the top on Ben Arfa's ability* after a very limited viewing.

 

 

*Not to say he isn't good, he can be absolutely brilliant, however there are no guarantees and the amount of uproar this player causes every time he doesn't start you would think we were benching Messi.

[gbandit]

In response to Cajun the reason I want Hatem in the side is not because he's better than the other options but because he offers something they can't.no one scares defended like he does and can put them on the back foot.he can transfom the way we play,I truly beleive that.

 

We have some average players of course but:

 

Krul

 

Santon

Saylor

Colo

(I would give Ferguson a run out at least)

 

Ben arfa

Tiote

Cabaye

Gutierrez

 

Ba

Cisse

 

is far better than most,including Liverpool,arsenal and even Chelsea this season if we could get the players to gel properly.with injuries we lose it a bit,Williamson for me is nowhere near as good as saylor and perch is a weak link but Raylor has stepped up well in a squad role.it's asking a lot to expect he starting 11 I put out to be fit but even if we 1,2 maybe even 3 of those players,we should still be playing better football than we have this season.I just haven't seen enough to believe we had a system in place long term

[Guest Karamoja Bell]

Because I don't believe starting Ben Arfa automatically makes us a better side

 

 

I just cant get my head around why you think this when the alternatives are named Obertan and Ryan Taylor. (Unless you consider - for arguements sake, I disagree with the notion that obertan works better defensively than Hatem but whatever - grafting a key point against a team such a wolves)

 

Honestly, based on Obertans performances in the 20 odd games he has played - HBA could sit down on the flank for 75minutes eating mars bars before getting up and giving a fuck - go past some players and hoy the odd cross in - and that would be far more than Gabby Obertan has done in the majority of his games.

 

You seem like a level-headed guy, so I just cannot fathom why you as a fan who loves fotball, does not want HBA out there performing magic when we have frankly pathetic alternatives...

[Guest Karamoja Bell]

Maybe our success this season has been more to do with the way we are set up than individual performances?

 

Unexpected Position/exceeding expectations > one player.

 

I really don't understand why you're being like this with Ben Arfa, yet you jumped to defend Ba at any available opportunity. 

 

after a very limited viewing.

the amount of uproar this player causes every time he doesn't start you would think we were benching Messi.

 

The limited viewing isnt his fault at least.... You are right, he may not be messi, but as far as Newcastle United goes, its probably as close as it gets..

 

Look at our midfield and attack man, name players who can effectively go past players and open up a defence? Jonas usually runs himself into a corner, cabaye and tiote are both too withdrawn, obertan couldnt buy a run-by and Ryan Taylor is barely managing as long as all you ask of him is to long-ball cross it in.

 

We need one guy who cant be marked out by one defender, its actually a question of balance.

[Cajun]

Ben Arfa takes risks when trying to do too much and has lost possession a few times in a position which has left us vulnerable to counter attacks, as we know this is a problem with a predominantly slow back 4.

 

That is one of the reasons I can understand why he isn't a guaranteed starter even if I think he would be worth the risk. I am not the manager or one of the coaching staff so am not in a position to say whether or not he would definitely be better or worse for the team and how we try to play.

 

Not sure what is difficult to understand here. The whole point is I trust the manager because he has gotten us playing "poor" football to a standard which currently has us challenging Arsenal and Liverpool, something most would have offered to drink their own piss if bet at the start of the season.

 

As Crumpy has also recently mentioned, we have had a fairly weak midfield for quite some time so if you have a player as 'maverick' as Ben Arfa you probably want a bit more stability in there to make up for his playing style.

 

I know I am going to be on the losing side trying to take a balanced point of view in this thread though

[gbandit]

The thing is,it's not about Hatem.it's about footballing philosophy,I don't mind if he goes in the summer as long as we are aiming to become a more pass-move team.I'm a fan on so far as I think he can improve us,IRS nut about desperately wanting him because Im a fan of him.we need players who are technically excellent and offer a direct threat from midfield.at the moment we really have so few players who can fulfil that.

 

I know it seems like a Hatem argument but for me it's an Nufc argument and a footballing argument and one that really disappoints me because I believe in it a lot and haven't seen it enough

[Guest Karamoja Bell]

Challenging Liverpool and Arsenal this season doesnt say that much though does it,  when you have swansea and Norwich trailing them 5 points behind 

 

Nah I know what you mean,  its probably just a matter of whether you look at results and the table and defend things from that point of view, or look at the fotball and try to look beyond the results..

 

Im more in the SBR-camp where everything starts with the performance. If thats bang on, everything else will follow

[High Five o]

HBA needs to start in this team. Anyone advocating Raylor/Obertan to start need to look at why they watch football.

 

Players like HBA is a big reason why i find football very exciting, and its a shame we have a manager who can`t find a place for him in the team.

 

Its kind of the only thing i criticize Pardew for this season, he have done excellent, and should be proud of his work. But he gives me a few gray hairs with his team selections at times.

[Dr Venkman]

I appreciate the balanced view like but I can't see how HBA's been afforded the opportunity Obertan has this season despite being far more productive with far less playing time, Pardew's approach has been unbalanced in favour of the player that offers the team less. Is it really too much to ask that we field ONE midfielder who's primary quality is to attack the other team?

[Chrisjraby]

Up against the powerhouse that is Stephen Ward, surely Ben Arfa is the logical choice...?

[High Five o]

I appreciate the balanced view like but I can't see how HBA's been afforded the opportunity Obertan has this season despite being far more productive with far less playing time, Pardew's approach has been unbalanced in favour of the player that offers the team less. Is it really too much to ask that we field ONE midfielder who's primary quality is to attack the other team?

 

Spot on!

 

The wolves game will give us a indication what the thing with HBA is.

We have both Tiote and Cabaye back.

With Cabaye and especially Tiote running the show in the center, the movement of Cisse/Ba on top, its a lineup made for HBA.

 

Guess we have to wait and see.

[Crumpy Gunt]

If he doesn't start v Wolves I think we can safely assume he'll be going in the summer.

[Jayson]

Id like to see Ben Arfa v wolves, but i mostly agree with Cajun.

 

I think Pards just places more emphasis on us being strong defensively, moreso than a wonderous attacking side. This has probably worked very well for us as arguably thats our weakest area outside of Colo as we've seen when its been exposed recently. As good as our midfield/Strikeforce can be you're only as strong as your weakest link. Ben Arfa is a class attacker but is potentially more likely to also expose that weakest link through trying something extravagant.

 

You add to that the fact that scoring goals has not been an issue for us atall & you can see why hes wary.

[madras]

If he doesn't start v Wolves I think we can safely assume he'll be going in the summer.

thats how i see it.

[MW]

If he doesn't start v Wolves I think we can safely assume he'll be going in the summer.

thats how i see it.

 

agreed. id be surprised if he starts vs mackems regardless as pardew will be scared of mclean

[Hughesy]

HBA needs to start in this team. Anyone advocating Raylor/Obertan to start need to look at why they watch football.

 

Players like HBA is a big reason why i find football very exciting, and its a shame we have a manager who can`t find a place for him in the team.

 

Its kind of the only thing i criticize Pardew for this season, he have done excellent, and should be proud of his work. But he gives me a few gray hairs with his team selections at times.

 

That's a bit of a patronising view to be honest - people certainly don't need to look at why they watch football because they might think that the team is better served playing Obertan or Taylor ahead of Ben Arfa. 

 

I watch NUFC to see them win first and foremost and to a degree that is all I care about.  I don't really that fussed about how we do it.  In an ideal world -yes, I would like us to play in exciting matches, but that is very much secondary to the end result.

[TRon]

On Talksport Gray and Keys were discussing Walcott and comparing his lack of goals with Gareth Bale unfavourably, the general view that a winger should get double figures for a top side. How many do people here think we'll get from Obertan and Gutierrez? They'd have top play four seasons and add both players tallies to get that. We really can't afford to have two wingers with no end product if we want to move forward.

 

If Ben Arfa isn't the solution then the simple fact is the alternatives are not good enough. Ryan Taylor and Obertan are ok as fill ins but we will need to sign a right winger/midfielder in the summer. Marveaux is there but until we've established he can last a season you wouldn't want to bank on him. Maybe go back in for Barnetta?

 

 

[High Five o]

HBA needs to start in this team. Anyone advocating Raylor/Obertan to start need to look at why they watch football.

 

Players like HBA is a big reason why i find football very exciting, and its a shame we have a manager who can`t find a place for him in the team.

 

Its kind of the only thing i criticize Pardew for this season, he have done excellent, and should be proud of his work. But he gives me a few gray hairs with his team selections at times.

 

That's a bit of a patronising view to be honest - people certainly don't need to look at why they watch football because they might think that the team is better served playing Obertan or Taylor ahead of Ben Arfa. 

 

I watch NUFC to see them win first and foremost and to a degree that is all I care about.  I don't really that fussed about how we do it.  In an ideal world -yes, I would like us to play in exciting matches, but that is very much secondary to the end result.

 

I see your point, it was not meant to be patronizing, but reading it again, i might come across like it.

 

But i still say, in my opinion, that football is a game of entertainment.

I would not be happy if we was Stoke kind of team.

I personally want players in the team that will put me on the edge of the seat.

Out team have some very good players, and a lot of players working their socks off.

HBA have worked good the matches i have seen.

Not as much as some of the other players, but still, not that bad.

So i think we should afford a HBA in our team.

 

IMO Obertan offer us nothing defensively, that HBA could not do. Raylor i see the point with, but against Wolves at home, its madness not to start HBA over both.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

If he doesnt start against Wolves, Pardew has no business being a manager of this club. Such an exclusion would show extreme cowardice and negativity on a level with Allardyce vs Derby.

[Guest BooBoo]

[Guest michaelfoster]

If he doesnt start against Wolves, Pardew has no business being a manager of this club. Such an exclusion would show extreme cowardice and negativity on a level with Allardyce vs Derby.

 

your getting embarassing now

[Dr Venkman]

you're