Jayson Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 The Cisse signing stands out like a sore thumb because it's the only one that's demonstrated any kind of ambition. Alright, we made a fair few signings in the summer prior to that, but they were simply to replace the likes of Nolan, Barton and Enrique who all left (not to mention Carroll). I guess we signed Cisse because Pardew convinced them we had a real shot at the Champions League if we got another striker. When we didn't qualify, I guess that factored in Ashley's frugality and he reverted to/back to '17th will do'. The thing is he has to have a level of ambition for our performances even if his only priority is profit. One of his obvious tactics has been buying players on the cheap to sell on for big amounts & he wont get big amounts if we perform as a side that finishes in the lower half. He needs us to play as a side that has stand out performers, so he also needs our manager to get us playing like that. So while he may not have ambitions to spend money so we're successful, he certainly will want us to be successful so he makes some money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 The Cisse signing stands out like a sore thumb because it's the only one that's demonstrated any kind of ambition. Alright, we made a fair few signings in the summer prior to that, but they were simply to replace the likes of Nolan, Barton and Enrique who all left (not to mention Carroll). I guess we signed Cisse because Pardew convinced them we had a real shot at the Champions League if we got another striker. When we didn't qualify, I guess that factored in Ashley's frugality and he reverted to/back to '17th will do'. The thing is he has to have a level of ambition for our performances even if his only priority is profit. One of his obvious tactics has been buying players on the cheap to sell on for big amounts & he wont get big amounts if we perform as a side that finishes in the lower half. He needs us to play as a side that has stand out performers, so he also needs our manager to get us playing like that. So while he may not have ambitions to spend money so we're successful, he certainly will want us to be successful so he makes some money. I still don't see this at all, he has done it once(?) during his time here and that was when he had no choice (Ba). Edit - Bassong went for a decent profit, we probably made a couple of million on Best but Guthrie, Smith, Xisco and Simpson went on frees and probably made a slight loss on Nolan. Barton was just before Ashley wasn't he? We got an offer of nearly triple what we paid for Cabaye but didn't sell. Ashley definitely wants value for money signings but if he is buying to sell he's failing badly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 If anything he has missed out on profit on quite a few occasions because he prides himself on being a tough seller.... Like Tiote for example we held strong the season we finished 5th, OK most of it wasn't made public but there is no smoke without fire so you have to really believe some big offers came in. Offers that we would probably accept without thinking twice now, but sometimes there are occasions when you need to buy and when you need to sell. Ashley honestly doesn't really know when the time is right to do either, his whole way of thinking is very very flawed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 The Cisse signing stands out like a sore thumb because it's the only one that's demonstrated any kind of ambition. Alright, we made a fair few signings in the summer prior to that, but they were simply to replace the likes of Nolan, Barton and Enrique who all left (not to mention Carroll). I guess we signed Cisse because Pardew convinced them we had a real shot at the Champions League if we got another striker. When we didn't qualify, I guess that factored in Ashley's frugality and he reverted to/back to '17th will do'. Also the signings like Cabaye and Ba that summer all had some sort of catch (clause / contract expired etc). Cisse was a surprising deal to say the least and it was done as apparently Freiburg lowered their price from what they initially wanted which put us off at first (over 10mil). Cisse was a belated replacement for Carroll, if we'd got champions league that season i'm not at all convinced we'd have gone on some spending spree or Ashley's mindset would be shifted. The more money we'd have got the more he'd have pocketed imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Id not look much into Cabaye not going, Ashley just thinks he can get more. You dont sell an asset below value if you think its about to go up. His problem is we've only realised some of their potential over one season & other clubs need more than that a lot of the time, the ones with money anyway before the big bids come in. We've had enough press releases of: We're so vunerable, everyones available at the right price but it must be big, hopefully there wont be interest in xyz because hes really really great and we want to keep him, please dont try to sign this guy big clubs. We market our players like no one else man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 The Cisse signing stands out like a sore thumb because it's the only one that's demonstrated any kind of ambition. Alright, we made a fair few signings in the summer prior to that, but they were simply to replace the likes of Nolan, Barton and Enrique who all left (not to mention Carroll). I guess we signed Cisse because Pardew convinced them we had a real shot at the Champions League if we got another striker. When we didn't qualify, I guess that factored in Ashley's frugality and he reverted to/back to '17th will do'. Also the signings like Cabaye and Ba that summer all had some sort of catch (clause / contract expired etc). Cisse was a surprising deal to say the least and it was done as apparently Freiburg lowered their price from what they initially wanted which put us off initially (over 10mil). Cisse was a belated replacement for Carroll, if we'd got champions league that season i'm not at all convinced we'd have gone on some spending spree or Ashley's mindset would be shifted. The more money we'd have got the more he'd have pocketed imo. I agree its questionable that a boost in revenue would change his mindset on getting value for money/bargains when signing players. Though as people have said many times before theirs no evidence that he's pocketed anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Well if he rates our players so highly no-one will offer what he wants then we can rest easy Still seems a bit of a myth to me. Like the religion or psychics threads, constant claims but no evidence to really back it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 The Cisse signing stands out like a sore thumb because it's the only one that's demonstrated any kind of ambition. Alright, we made a fair few signings in the summer prior to that, but they were simply to replace the likes of Nolan, Barton and Enrique who all left (not to mention Carroll). I guess we signed Cisse because Pardew convinced them we had a real shot at the Champions League if we got another striker. When we didn't qualify, I guess that factored in Ashley's frugality and he reverted to/back to '17th will do'. Also the signings like Cabaye and Ba that summer all had some sort of catch (clause / contract expired etc). Cisse was a surprising deal to say the least and it was done as apparently Freiburg lowered their price from what they initially wanted which put us off initially (over 10mil). Cisse was a belated replacement for Carroll, if we'd got champions league that season i'm not at all convinced we'd have gone on some spending spree or Ashley's mindset would be shifted. The more money we'd have got the more he'd have pocketed imo. I agree its questionable that a boost in revenue would change his mindset on getting value for money/bargains when signing players. Though as people have said before theirs no evidence that he's pocketed anything. Maybe pocketed was an offbeat way of putting it, imo though we'd have had the same summer with only Anita coming in even with Champ League qualification. He's simply not interested in investing seriously in the squad. The 'policy' of ours is hugely misinterpreted imo. Instead of looking to see what the team actually needs we just scrat about in Ligue 1 for cheap players, and if there is none to be found well then that's fine by Ashley no doubt. No speculate to accumulate. Think 'expiring' 'french' 'interested' '2-4mil' on your champ man filters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Well if he rates our players so highly no-one will offer what he wants then we can rest easy Still seems a bit of a myth to me. Like the religion or psychics threads, constant claims but no evidence to really back it up. Really? Read what Pardew says around any transfer window. You dont sell a house when theres a flood in your street, if you walk around beforehand saying "oh yer id totally sell my house, i cant afford not to if someone offered close to its value" that suggests slight evidence you'd sell like. Just maybe on a nicer day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 He's been here 6 years and will be breaking even (if that) on players he has bought and sold. Even if it hasn't been in the press I would be very surprised if we haven't had enquiries for a number of players who we would make a tidy profit on. You can say it's not been the right time, Pardew says this and that etc.. but the fact is he has sold 2 player in 6 years for any sort of sizeable profit and one of those he couldn't do anything about. When we start buying players and selling them on for a profit on a regular basis I will believe this is the strategy but as said we are either really fucking shit at it or its not really what we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 He's been here 6 years and will be breaking even (if that) on players he has bought and sold. Even if it hasn't been in the press I would be very surprised if we haven't had enquiries for a number of players who we would make a tidy profit on. You can say it's not been the right time, Pardew says this and that etc.. but the fact is he has sold 2 player in 6 years for any sort of sizeable profit and one of those he couldn't do anything about. When we start buying players and selling them on for a profit on a regular basis I will believe this is the strategy but as said we are either really fucking shit at it or its not really what we do. I think we're in profit on transfers since he took over. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 He's been here 6 years and will be breaking even (if that) on players he has bought and sold. Even if it hasn't been in the press I would be very surprised if we haven't had enquiries for a number of players who we would make a tidy profit on. You can say it's not been the right time, Pardew says this and that etc.. but the fact is he has sold 2 player in 6 years for any sort of sizeable profit and one of those he couldn't do anything about. When we start buying players and selling them on for a profit on a regular basis I will believe this is the strategy but as said we are either really fucking shit at it or its not really what we do. I think we're in profit on transfers since he took over. Not on players we have bought (under Ashley) to sell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Maybe pocketed was an offbeat way of putting it, imo though we'd have had the same summer with only Anita coming in even with Champ League qualification. He's simply not interested in investing seriously in the squad. The 'policy' of ours is hugely misinterpreted imo. Instead of looking to see what the team actually needs we just scrat about in Ligue 1 for cheap players, and if there is none to be found well then that's fine by Ashley no doubt. No speculate to accumulate. Think 'expiring' 'french' 'interested' '2-4mil' on your champ man filters. Quite a few players we've signed don't fit that filter, the player you just mentioned for instance. I know what you mean, we do seem to look for expiring contract players in France a lot of the time, but its not our entire policy. I also think its more about bargains than cheap players, for instance we paid £9m for Cisse, not that cheap but we considered it a bargain. We seem to go looking for the best players we can find at bargain prices and sometimes they aren't the kind of player we need, sometimes they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Away Toon Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 If the intention is to buy them cheap and then sell them high, it's not working, essentially because our dimwit of a manager has them playing so badly nobody wants to buy them. The alternative theory is that most of the players we buy are cheap and crap in the first place and have no resale value anyhow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Or we just buy cheap because its, erm, cheaper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Or we just buy cheap because its, erm, cheaper That is actually the case. The 'resale value' thing is just to avoid investing in expensive and worthless assets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Those filters were just an attempt to generalise our way of doing things. Wasnt gunna go through our players but might aswell. Our transfers since the beginning of the 11/12 season plus HBA. Cabaye - 4.5 mil release clause Ba - free transfer Marv - free transfer Santon - Unwanted, available for cut price Ben Arfa - Loan initially then permanent deal, chanced it on a player who had a broken leg at the time. Sissoko - Deal Running Out, available for next to nowt. Tiote - Cheap deal Hiadara - Cheap deal Obertan - Cost nowt practically Bigi - Cheap deal Cisse - 9mil spent and an impressive signing admittedly. Anita - 6mil Debuchy and MYB - The former was brought in long after he should have been and the latter imo was frantically brought in simply to quell the threat of relegation, as were Sissoko and Gouffran This season we've had one loan deal. I'm going over old ground but it's clear there is a pattern here. Excluding the Cisse deal we've not really spent big on a player. Total opportunistic bargain hunting and never the impression of recognising what the team requires and paying the required amount. I'm not criticising those players here just I find it odd how the club called it a policy after one successful go at it when it was quite clear it was just a swipe in the dark with the aim to spend as little as possible. my opinion anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm pretty sure we were ready to spend the money on Gomis this summer, if the deal hadn't had so many third party payment issues etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 But we didn't. Same every single time, this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexf Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Pretty sure we wern't going to sign Cisse either as we were quoted £12m originally but then in that January they got a call that the price was £9m if we still wanted him so we went for it. Still a good signing but again another sign that we only went in because we thought we could get a good deal and would never have bothered at his original value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuy_O Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm pretty sure we were ready to spend the money on Gomis this summer, if the deal hadn't had so many third party payment issues etc. It happens so much though with us. Agent / additional payments blah blah. Every other club is prepared to do the necessary except us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 I'm pretty sure we were ready to spend the money on Gomis this summer, if the deal hadn't had so many third party payment issues etc. It happens so much though with us. Agent / additional payments blah blah. Every other club is prepared to do the necessary except us. We are tight, not trying to argue otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Plus he was a year away from his contract expiring, hence we thought we'd get him below market value. He cost Lyon 13m Euros 4 years back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCW1983 Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Sums up our transfer strategy http://i938.photobucket.com/albums/ad223/Philly1983/ScreenShot2013-09-08at213418.png Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Let's bombard this thread with posts and get it to the unprecedented 1001st page before Dave has a chance to close it. Who's with me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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