Mick Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Next season will be the one where Pardew can be truly judged in my opinion. My point is that this season doesn't prove anything at all. How the hell does this season not prove anything at all? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachikoma Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Where the hell did this comparison with one of the greatest ever managers come from btw? Feel a lot more comfortable comparing him to the likes of Moyes etc.. I wasn't suggesting Pards will ever be as good or even close to as good as Ferguson. My point was merely that even the greatest managers had points in their career where they could, justifiably, have been judged to be doing a bad job. Not repeatedly though. Pardew wasn't sacked by West Ham and Southampton for nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Next season will be the one where Pardew can be truly judged in my opinion. My point is that this season doesn't prove anything at all. How the hell does this season not prove anything at all? Well enough people appear to think that finishing 5th didn't prove anything... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Yeah, if he wins the Europa League I'll suck his knob in Fenwick's window. Oh boy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Pardew hasn´t shown anything for me that he will take us to the next level. He sure seems to be able to get a team with quality play a bit, but that´s not true quality for me. Yes there are worse managers out there. But I want more. Shot me for that if you want. Btw, the argument about that it´s not any idea to talk about this because he will stay, what´s that all about?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Next season will be the one where Pardew can be truly judged in my opinion. My point is that this season doesn't prove anything at all. How the hell does this season not prove anything at all? Well enough people appear to think that finishing 5th didn't prove anything... Answer the question, man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Well enough people appear to think that finishing 5th didn't prove anything... So that's your basis for writing off this season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pata Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Pardew hasn´t shown anything for me that he will take us to the next level. He sure seems to be able to get a team with quality play a bit, but that´s not true quality for me. Yes there are worse managers out there. But I want more. Shot me for that if you want. Btw, the argument about that it´s not any idea to talk about this because he will stay, what´s that all about?? http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2010/08/10/news/photos_stories/cropped/gun--300x300.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Where the hell did this comparison with one of the greatest ever managers come from btw? Feel a lot more comfortable comparing him to the likes of Moyes etc.. I wasn't suggesting Pards will ever be as good or even close to as good as Ferguson. My point was merely that even the greatest managers had points in their career where they could, justifiably, have been judged to be doing a bad job. Not repeatedly though. Pardew wasn't sacked by West Ham and Southampton for nothing. His Southampton sacking was nothing to do with performance was it? Well not THAT type of performance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hughesy Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Well enough people appear to think that finishing 5th didn't prove anything... So that's your basis for writing off this season? It's my basis for stating that next season will be the best time to judge him. He had a good half season when he took over, followed up by an exceptionally good season. He has had a poor season to date. That is enough to give him next season to see how he gets on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sifu Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Seriously though, if Pardew wins us the Europa League, his name will (rightly) go down in NUFC folklore. Will more than make up this season's failings... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Seriously though, if Pardew wins us the Europa League, his name will (rightly) go down in NUFC folklore. Will more than make up this season's failings... This season has more to do with those holding the purse strings than the man in the dugout imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 I'll dig out 2 sets of starting 11s for every game this season and give you countless examples of where we should have got 1, 2, or 3 more points in each game if you like. This blaming last summer for everything is fucking bollocks. I was annoyed about it and it was a massive contributing factor but we've underachieved either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 This season has definitely been a failure, he has played his part but has also been let down in other areas (suspensions, injuries, a lack of investment in the summer and as much as some will put it down to Pardew I don't agree he is completely responsible for certain players under performing). Give your head a shake, Jon. You're falling into the knee-jerkists' trap of judging things before they've had chance to unfold. Wait until the season finishes before saying it was a success/failure. Also, are you just going to look at the end of season results (league finish, cup performances, etc) or how we played over the season or how the squad improved/weakened from the start or how the younger players improved/regressed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 26, 2013 Share Posted February 26, 2013 Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Conway Twitty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I'll dig out 2 sets of starting 11s for every game this season and give you countless examples of where we should have got 1, 2, or 3 more points in each game if you like. This blaming last summer for everything is f***ing b*llocks. I was annoyed about it and it was a massive contributing factor but we've underachieved either way. We have underachieved. However I'd say the lack of strengthening in summer had more of an affect than you seem to suggest. Perfect example is the Taylor injury at the end of the Southampton game in November. He missed 12 games, we lost 9 of them, conceding 26 times. If we'd signed Mbiwa in the summer it is highly unlikely that we'd have conceded that many. Not simply because he looks like an absolute gem of a player, but instead because we'd not be relying on a Championship centre half. I'm not blaming it for everything, just most of the things. The injuries we've endured this season were the quota for this year and last in one go. Pardew must still shoulder some blame for limited tactics but he's a limited manager. He's got this job because he's happy to accept that he'll only have a small say in transfers in and out, he's accepting a small basic wage (presumably incentivised for cup/league success), he's going to toe the party line and he's a competent enough manager to do well enough in the competitions to keep us content. I think even Ferguson would have struggled to do much better with the 1st team that's been available for much of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think that last sentence is a joke tbh, I was more pissed off than anyone with last summer's inactivity but the team we've put out this season should have won loads more games than it has. The Taylor example's a decent one to present but that's one weak link that doesn't excuse countless losses/draws against some very poor teams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think even Ferguson would have struggled to do much better with the 1st team that's been available for much of the season. Come on, man There's worse teams above us and they've been there all season. I've seen on here many times that Pardew gets the most out of squad players but this season has disproved that completely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 We have underachieved. However I'd say the lack of strengthening in summer had more of an affect than you seem to suggest. Perfect example is the Taylor injury at the end of the Southampton game in November. He missed 12 games, we lost 9 of them, conceding 26 times. If we'd signed Mbiwa in the summer it is highly unlikely that we'd have conceded that many. Not simply because he looks like an absolute gem of a player, but instead because we'd not be relying on a Championship centre half. I'm not blaming it for everything, just most of the things. The injuries we've endured this season were the quota for this year and last in one go. Pardew must still shoulder some blame for limited tactics but he's a limited manager. He's got this job because he's happy to accept that he'll only have a small say in transfers in and out, he's accepting a small basic wage (presumably incentivised for cup/league success), he's going to toe the party line and he's a competent enough manager to do well enough in the competitions to keep us content. I think even Ferguson would have struggled to do much better with the 1st team that's been available for much of the season. While i agree with some of this, i don't think we would have been able to get Mbiwa in the summer ( same goes for Sissoko) someone of better quality than Williamson sure but i don't think Mbiwa himself was a possibility then. I often think sometimes much of what we had to endure this season might be an necessary evil for the long term success of the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Realistically we could have played this worst case scenario side for most of the season: Krul Simpson Williamson Coloccini Santon Tiote Anita Marv Obertan Ba Cisse It's not exactly great, but even though I'm completely discounting HBA and Cabaye that side really shouldn't be threatened by relegation under a good manager. A genuine top quality manager would have us in the top 10, I have no doubt about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 We had a snowball effect from the end of the summer window until we stopped the rot and signed the new lads. In between those 2 periods we had failed to build our squad, lost Cabaye, Taylor, Ben Arfa (later) to injuries, had some real stupid suspensions (Tiote/Colo), poor form from many of our key players, over-reliance on poorer players, and some awful management by AP when yo look at the disgusting football we were playing and our inability to get results. He can't be fully blamed, nor can he be fully free from blame. The coaching staff, the players, and the board have all done poorly until January bar one or two bright spots. Not sure he's the one to take us into top 7-8 regularly - but I can't honestly judge his body of work when he had many outside factors truly fucking about with his ability to pick the right players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think that last sentence is a joke tbh, I was more p*ssed off than anyone with last summer's inactivity but the team we've put out this season should have won loads more games than it has. The Taylor example's a decent one to present but that's one weak link that doesn't excuse countless losses/draws against some very poor teams. Last year we benefited from a perfect storm; we had a few unknowns, we managed to field a mostly unchanged side for most of the 1st half of the season which gave us a consistency at the back, Ba and Cisse, etc. Add to our fortunes the misfortunes of Liverpool and Chelsea, Bolton and Blackburn, the unexpected performances of Norwich and Swansea.. All of these things contributed to a false (imo) 5th finish. This year we'll finish back around where we're expected to be somewhere between 7th and 12th. Given our awful start it's more likely to be the bottom end of that field, but that's the price you pay for not strengthening a paper thin squad on the off-chance you once again don't get injuries. Come on, man There's worse teams above us and they've been there all season. I've seen on here many times that Pardew gets the most out of squad players but this season has disproved that completely. There are worse teams above us, but how many of them have had the injuries we've endured and how many will still be above us come the end of the season? It was only really West Brom, Stoke, Fulham and Norwich who I'd say had a worse squad than us at the beginning of the season, and who are now still above us. Now, I'd say with some confidence that we'll finish above at least two of those. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that we'd have picked up least 2 more points if we'd signed Debuchy and (say) Gouffran, putting us (goal difference aside) 11th. Pardew said we'd erred by failing to strengthen and even Llambias went public to admit as much. If we'd strengthened would we be fighting for the Champions League spots as we were this time last year? Most likely we wouldn't. However, we would have seen much better league performances (by virtue of fielding better players in their own positions), and an improved league position. Perhaps aiming for the last Europa spot? Who knows? I don't believe Ferguson would have had us 10 points better off, with the squad we've had this year. Do you, honestly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 I think Ferguson realistically would have us more than 10 points better off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 We've lost 6 games at home for one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 The Ferguson thing, fuck me. Doesn't deserve any serious discussion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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