Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I wouldn't say Pardew has had a shoe string budget like. We do well financially but he's had very good resources to work with and was effectively given a whole new quad. He started the season with a smaller squad with less quality than the previous season but with an added competition... I personally don't think it takes a genius to see where some of the problems lie... That's pretty arguable like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Let's dig up Valeriy Lobanovskyi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I said Phil Montanier months ago, he's French and his teams play good football. But the main reason for me was, when he first took over at Soceidad, they struggled but he didn't panic and he stuck to playing the good football that has got them to where they are now. Like any fairly unknown manager there are risks, but with us on the verge of relegation under Pardew, i'm not sure it's such a bad risk anymore. A manager who likes to see his team play good football, can tough it out when struggling. The French players should like him. Worth a go. Indeed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I wouldn't say Pardew has had a shoe string budget like. We do well financially but he's had very good resources to work with and was effectively given a whole new quad. He started the season with a smaller squad with less quality than the previous season but with an added competition... I personally don't think it takes a genius to see where some of the problems lie... I was talking about last season Ba, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Santon, Cisse & Marveaux were all bought for him. Regardless of how much was spent he had a very strong squad assembled for him. As for the last sentence, if the manager not being up to task is one of those problems then I agree. Ben Arfa was already there... And you don't mention all the players we lost... Ba has gone... So that leaves Cabaye who's had as many poor games as good... Same can be said for Santon and Marveaux... Cisse has done well but he has had to replace Carroll+Best in reality... I think some on here massively over-hype our players to compensate the criticism of a manager ... The truth normally lies much closer down the middle... Yeah Ba has gone and in came Yanga-Mbiwa, Debuchy, Gouffran, Haidara and Sissoko. Pardew's had plenty of quality bought for him, he's mis-managed the massive majority of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I wouldn't say Pardew has had a shoe string budget like. We do well financially but he's had very good resources to work with and was effectively given a whole new quad. He started the season with a smaller squad with less quality than the previous season but with an added competition... I personally don't think it takes a genius to see where some of the problems lie... That's pretty arguable like. Argue it then... We lost Guthrie and Best off the top of my head straight away which we did not replace from a squad everyone agreed was too small to start with the year before... This time we had the Europa league to contend with... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I wouldn't say Pardew has had a shoe string budget like. We do well financially but he's had very good resources to work with and was effectively given a whole new quad. He started the season with a smaller squad with less quality than the previous season but with an added competition... I personally don't think it takes a genius to see where some of the problems lie... That's pretty arguable like. Argue it then... We lost Guthrie and Best off the top of my head straight away which we did not replace from a squad everyone agreed was too small to start with the year before... This time we had the Europa league to contend with... too small for a top 5 finish yes we all agree, too small to get more than 36 points in mid April? I fucking think not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I think some on here massively over-hype our players to compensate the criticism of a manager ... The truth normally lies much closer down the middle... That's not the truth, it's your opinion. Most of these players are worth a lot of money and our squad is probably among the top 6 in England if you look at the overall fees and wages they would command if we sold them. Especially if you take out the clubs owned by sugar daddies who are operating on a different level to the rest of the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I wouldn't say Pardew has had a shoe string budget like. We do well financially but he's had very good resources to work with and was effectively given a whole new quad. He started the season with a smaller squad with less quality than the previous season but with an added competition... I personally don't think it takes a genius to see where some of the problems lie... I was talking about last season Ba, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Santon, Cisse & Marveaux were all bought for him. Regardless of how much was spent he had a very strong squad assembled for him. As for the last sentence, if the manager not being up to task is one of those problems then I agree. Ben Arfa was already there... And you don't mention all the players we lost... Ba has gone... So that leaves Cabaye who's had as many poor games as good... Same can be said for Santon and Marveaux... Cisse has done well but he has had to replace Carroll+Best in reality... I think some on here massively over-hype our players to compensate the criticism of a manager ... The truth normally lies much closer down the middle... I think it's abundantly clear that we have some very talented players at the club, they've shown it both here and at their previous clubs, and some on the international stage too. What we haven't seen is this group of players play above themselves for any period of time and that's pretty telling. In short a better manager than Pardew would get far more out of these players. Hence, for the sake of my own sanity I would much prefer a better manager... "But who do we get?!" I don't know, but I do know that there are dozens probably even hundreds out there better suited to the task Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I wouldn't say Pardew has had a shoe string budget like. We do well financially but he's had very good resources to work with and was effectively given a whole new quad. He started the season with a smaller squad with less quality than the previous season but with an added competition... I personally don't think it takes a genius to see where some of the problems lie... That's pretty arguable like. Argue it then... We lost Guthrie and Best off the top of my head straight away which we did not replace from a squad everyone agreed was too small to start with the year before... This time we had the Europa league to contend with... We lost Guthrie and brought in Anita and Bigiramana, we lost Best but he was sort of already replaced by Cisse for the start of this season. Lost Ba since then and so far haven't replaced him directly but there's no doubt we've strengthened in the same window by bringing in Yanga-Mbiwa, Debuchy, Gouffran, Haidara and Sissoko. Its really pretty hard to claim that Pardew is simply being let down by transfers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I wouldn't say Pardew has had a shoe string budget like. We do well financially but he's had very good resources to work with and was effectively given a whole new quad. He started the season with a smaller squad with less quality than the previous season but with an added competition... I personally don't think it takes a genius to see where some of the problems lie... That's pretty arguable like. Argue it then... We lost Guthrie and Best off the top of my head straight away which we did not replace from a squad everyone agreed was too small to start with the year before... This time we had the Europa league to contend with... We lost Guthrie and brought in Anita and Bigiramana, we lost Best and in the next window replaced him with Cisse. Lost Ba since then and so far haven't replaced him but there's no doubt we've strengthened in the same window by bringing in Yanga-Mbiwa, Debuchy, Gouffran, Haidara and Sissoko. I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Guthrie in my eyes showed in his time here to have more quality and presence than Anita+Bigi combined... Cisse was Carroll's replacement (hence the shirt number) whereas Best has never been replaced... i.e 2/3 tier striker... We've just had to put up with Shola more... I'd take Best over Shola any day of the week... If you are judging the squad post January window then AP is doing an OK job again like previous season considering he's missing 2 captains through injury at various times and hist first choice GK... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Cisse has seldom been injured and up until the summer (when we bought Gouffran) his potential striker partner was Demba Ba. I don't think the situation has ever been ideal for Pardew but "he didn't have Leon Best of Danny Guthrie" is one of the strangest reasons I will ever read for a team finishing a season in a relegation scrap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Cisse has seldom been injured and up until the summer (when we bought Gouffran) his potential striker partner was Demba Ba. I don't think the situation has ever been ideal for Pardew but "he didn't have Leon Best of Danny Guthrie" is one of the strangest reasons I will ever read for a team finishing a season in a relegation scrap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I think it shows your ignorance to the contribution they both made in us finishing 5th... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 If you give Pardew some leeway because of the summer, i dont but my reasoning is purely from the style of football and set penises. Since he was bought 5 new players the excuses are pie in the sky. Since those 5 players have signed, after an intial bounce we have got progessively worse, especially at the back. Pardew is not good enough, there is a reason he was manager of a league one club. PDC was but that was his first job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Di Canio is quite likely to turn out to be absolutely shite for Sunderland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I think it shows your ignorance to the contribution they both made in us finishing 5th... They were both massive sure but we have replaced them.... Gouffran and Anita the problem lies in the fact we are buying players for a different style of football and Pardew is persisting with the same style we used with Guthrie and Best when it clearly doesn't work with these players. The main problem we have with Pardew at the helm is the style of football the club wants from the youth teams and to the players they buy is different to the style of football that Pardew deploys. The whole club needs to pull in the same direction with recruitment and as of right now i don't see that it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Right fine you're talking about the start of the season only. So we started 2012-2013 with the following players missing/added compared to the start of the previous season: In: Cisse Amalfitano Bigirimana Good Anita Out: Guthrie Lovenkrands Smith Kadar Best Forster Shocking downgrade that like.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Di Canio is quite likely to turn out to be absolutely shite for Sunderland. Based on what? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 If you give Pardew some leeway because of the summer, i dont but my reasoning is purely from the style of football and set penises. Since he was bought 5 new players the excuses are pie in the sky. Since those 5 players have signed, after an intial bounce we have got progessively worse, especially at the back. Pardew is not good enough, there is a reason he was manager of a league one club. PDC was but that was his first job. I agree with the style of play... I'm just hoping the squad will be more settled next year and therefore no excuses and we see what he can do with a proper squad this time in the league and in 2 domestic cups... Hence my argument he gets one year from me to prove himself... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Di Canio is quite likely to turn out to be absolutely shite for Sunderland. Based on what? Volatile personality, limited resources, fascist views, lack of experience, there are loads. What I was responding to was the hint in bimpy's post that it doesn't matter that Di Canio was a lower league manager, but it does matter that Pardew was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Right fine you're talking about the start of the season only. So we started 2012-2013 with the following players missing/added compared to the start of the previous season: In: Cisse Amalfitano Bigirimana Good Anita Out: Guthrie Lovenkrands Smith Kadar Best Forster Shocking downgrade that like.. Cisse came in the January to replace Carroll so take him out... Guthrie + Best tower above the names you mention coming in... Not only that they actually showed it on the pitch when called upon the season we finished 5th... AP was sold a short hand in the summer... No one can argue that surely... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icemanblue Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 FWIW, Guthrie gave some of his best performances for the club during that season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Right fine you're talking about the start of the season only. So we started 2012-2013 with the following players missing/added compared to the start of the previous season: In: Cisse Amalfitano Bigirimana Good Anita Out: Guthrie Lovenkrands Smith Kadar Best Forster Shocking downgrade that like.. Cisse came in the January to replace Carroll so take him out... Guthrie + Best tower above the names you mention coming in... Not only that they actually showed on the pitch when called upon the season we finished 5th... I won't take Cisse out. You said you were only talking about the start of the season, so I've compared the differences in the squad from the start of each season in 2011-2012 and 2012-2013. You can't start ignoring differences in squads from one season to the next because you think that player A was meant to replace player B from the season before that. The fact is the squad Pardew started the season with wasn't a significant downgrade on the one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Di Canio is quite likely to turn out to be absolutely shite for Sunderland. Based on what? Volatile personality, limited resources, fascist views, lack of experience, there are loads. What I was responding to was the hint in bimpy's post that it doesn't matter that Di Canio was a lower league manager, but it does matter that Pardew was. I think Di Canio will probably start to get bored after a while so I don't think he'll do so well long term, but I would expect the next 12 months to be infinitely better for Sunderland than they ever would under O'Neill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Right fine you're talking about the start of the season only. So we started 2012-2013 with the following players missing/added compared to the start of the previous season: In: Cisse Amalfitano Bigirimana Good Anita Out: Guthrie Lovenkrands Smith Kadar Best Forster Shocking downgrade that like.. Cisse came in the January to replace Carroll so take him out... Guthrie + Best tower above the names you mention coming in... Not only that they actually showed on the pitch when called upon the season we finished 5th... You said you were only talking about the start of the season, Cisse wasn't here at the start of 2011-2012. What exactly do you want to compare here?, because it seems like a mishmash of whatever suits your argument. Start of this season... Hence we already had Cisse Best and Guthrie... We sold the later two and replaced them with Anita+Bigi (for Guthrie which you argued but even 2 put together has proved a downgrade so far in my eyes) and Best which we've not replaced just played Shola more which in my eyes is a downgrade also... Hence me saying we started THIS season with a smaller squad (your outs (6) are more than your ins (5) and thats not for accounting the waste that was Xisco and Ranger)... And in my eyes a poorer squad ... Hope that is clear enough? Yes we've added quality come February but by then we are out of 2 cups and in a relegation scrap... So we are judging result from Norwich/Villa away onwards... At home we've won everyone bar the derby... Away we won at Villa... But have been poor at the Champions... Swansea I can't comment on as only game i've not seen this season but by all accounts worth at least a draw which i thought we also were against a high flying Spurs other than Bale... Wigan was going well until Debuchy and then Haidara had to come off... Just trying to give balance to all this... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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