Oakie Doke Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 he's dead to me. I mean it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Di Canio is quite likely to turn out to be absolutely shite for Sunderland. Based on what? i said to my mackem mate after the derby that my immediate concern with him would be player purchases, no track record whatsoever at this level...seems to have an understanding of the modern game and is a motivator so can't see him having massive trouble from that side they really can't afford to burn more money though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I very much doubt there's anything about Guthrie that would have meant he bucked the trend that everyone who was good last season has been shit in this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorJ_01 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 he's dead to me. I mean it. Been dead to me for about 5 months. I peaked after the Reading match and have been at a steady level ever since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 he's dead to me. I mean it. Oakie is such a legend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Right fine you're talking about the start of the season only. So we started 2012-2013 with the following players missing/added compared to the start of the previous season: In: Cisse Amalfitano Bigirimana Good Anita Out: Guthrie Lovenkrands Smith Kadar Best Forster Shocking downgrade that like.. Cisse came in the January to replace Carroll so take him out... Guthrie + Best tower above the names you mention coming in... Not only that they actually showed on the pitch when called upon the season we finished 5th... You said you were only talking about the start of the season, Cisse wasn't here at the start of 2011-2012. What exactly do you want to compare here?, because it seems like a mishmash of whatever suits your argument. Start of this season... Hence we already had Cisse Best and Guthrie... We sold the later two and replaced them with Anita+Bigi (for Guthrie which you argued but even 2 put together has proved a downgrade so far in my eyes) and Best which we've not replaced just played Shola more which in my eyes is a downgrade also... Hence me saying we started THIS season with a smaller squad (your outs (6) are more than your ins (5) and thats not for accounting the waste that was Xisco and Ranger)... And in my eyes a poorer squad ... Hope that is clear enough? Just seems like you're narrowing things down to a very specific period here. Also I think Bigi's looked a good player to me, but very underutilised, same with Anita. While Guthrie and Best played well in a winning team last season neither of them are particularly good players (Guthrie played well here for all of a few months out of his entire Newcastle career) there's no reason to believe those two could carry us. I did like Best though and always thought he was worth keeping, certainly ahead of Shola. We also haven't improved overall since January despite some more very good players coming in. Pardew consistently bewilders me with his tactics and team selections, I'm not going to blame his failures on transfers. I mean nobody was happy when we didn't push on an improve the squad in the summer, but its no excuse for where we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 We have improved since the signings came in but that also coincided with some players also coming back from injury i.e. Cabaye, S Taylor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I very much doubt there's anything about Guthrie that would have meant he bucked the trend that everyone who was good last season has been s*** in this one. When he played last season I personally thought he kept the team ticking over with a better tempo and he actually seemed to play well with YC... Whereas the dream partnership expressed on here last season of CT & YC never quite clicked and hasn't looked like doing so this season... I'm predicting if we stay up that depending on fixtures November is going to be a big month for AP in the eyes of the fans... Poor start and the jungle drums will start beating come December... Only then can i see the board having any appetite if any for change... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 We have improved since the signings came in but that also coincided with some players also coming back from injury i.e. Cabaye, S Taylor. We got a boost at the time, but we've been settling back down to pre-January levels ever since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 We have improved since the signings came in but that also coincided with some players also coming back from injury i.e. Cabaye, S Taylor. We got a boost at the time, but we've been settling back down to pre-January levels ever since. Yep it was akin to a sugar rush, the short term boost has seemingly gone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Di Canio is quite likely to turn out to be absolutely s**** for Sunderland. Based on what? Volatile personality, limited resources, fascist views, lack of experience, there are loads. What I was responding to was the hint in bimpy's post that it doesn't matter that Di Canio was a lower league manager, but it does matter that Pardew was. I think Di Canio will probably start to get bored after a while so I don't think he'll do so well long term, but I would expect the next 12 months to be infinitely better for Sunderland than they ever would under O'Neill. We'll see, but I'm not convinced. They seemed to be the early O'Neill team to me on Sunday, it took 3 long range strikes to get that result and they never looked particularly creative despite breaking in numbers. They will most likely endure a honeymoon period until the end of the season but come next year, I think he'll be found out. Once things settle I think they'll be picked off with such gung-ho counter attacking and they'll sink back to the style that they were playing under O'Neill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Right fine you're talking about the start of the season only. So we started 2012-2013 with the following players missing/added compared to the start of the previous season: In: Cisse Amalfitano Bigirimana Good Anita Out: Guthrie Lovenkrands Smith Kadar Best Forster Shocking downgrade that like.. Cisse came in the January to replace Carroll so take him out... Guthrie + Best tower above the names you mention coming in... Not only that they actually showed on the pitch when called upon the season we finished 5th... You said you were only talking about the start of the season, Cisse wasn't here at the start of 2011-2012. What exactly do you want to compare here?, because it seems like a mishmash of whatever suits your argument. Start of this season... Hence we already had Cisse Best and Guthrie... We sold the later two and replaced them with Anita+Bigi (for Guthrie which you argued but even 2 put together has proved a downgrade so far in my eyes) and Best which we've not replaced just played Shola more which in my eyes is a downgrade also... Hence me saying we started THIS season with a smaller squad (your outs (6) are more than your ins (5) and thats not for accounting the waste that was Xisco and Ranger)... And in my eyes a poorer squad ... Hope that is clear enough? Just seems like you're narrowing things down to a very specific period here, anything else gets to be ignored. Even then its a pretty weak argument, Bigi's looked a good player to me, but very underutilised, same with Anita. Also while Guthrie and Best played well in a winning team last season neither of them are particularly good players there's no reason to believe those two could carry us. We also haven't improved overall since January despite some more very good players coming in. Pardew consistently bewilders me with his tactics and team selections, I'm not going to blame his failures on transfers. Not really... It's the period from finishing one season and starting the next... In my eyes we started this season with a smaller and weaker squad than last... Smaller i don't think can be argued as we sold/released more than we brought in... Quality can always be argued which is fair enough hence me arguing that Guthrie outperformed last season what Anita+Bigi have done this season... Best simply has not been replaced and i thought he contributed massively until Cisse arrived in the January (belatedly to replace Carroll from the previous January) of last season putting us in a very strong position for Cisse to pick up from which he did brilliantly... Basically all I'm saying is we should've bought who we did in January in the summer... The couple of million saved buying in the Winter transfer window would i'm guessing be easily made up with a higher league position that may of been achieved and they would've been all eligible for the Europe... It would've built nicely on the momentum we'd gathered and not had to play as many players early in the season who at times looked clearly unfit also at the same time give AP a fair chance to be judged... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Di Canio is quite likely to turn out to be absolutely s**** for Sunderland. Based on what? Volatile personality, limited resources, fascist views, lack of experience, there are loads. What I was responding to was the hint in bimpy's post that it doesn't matter that Di Canio was a lower league manager, but it does matter that Pardew was. I think Di Canio will probably start to get bored after a while so I don't think he'll do so well long term, but I would expect the next 12 months to be infinitely better for Sunderland than they ever would under O'Neill. We'll see, but I'm not convinced. They seemed to be the early O'Neill team to me on Sunday, it took 3 long range strikes to get that result and they never looked particularly creative despite breaking in numbers. They will most likely endure a honeymoon period until the end of the season but come next year, I think he'll be found out. Once things settle I think they'll be picked off with such gung-ho counter attacking and they'll sink back to the style that they were playing under O'Neill. The big challenge is going to be the first time things go wrong, can he take any abuse from the fans?, can he motivate players without pissing them off or deciding they'll never play for him again at the drop of a hat? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Cronky you can't judge a game like that. If we had scored the goal that was wrongly called offside, Then you would have to have factored in the Mackems being given a stonewall penalty and the possible sending off of Gouffran as possibles as well. Fair point, but the big picture is that both sides had their chances, and it could have gone either way. I just worry that if all this negativity is typical, it might get through to the players. It wasn't our day. Let's move on. Staggering, absolutely staggering. THE MANAGER FEEDS THEM NEGATIVITY ON A DAILY BASIS MAN. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Right fine you're talking about the start of the season only. So we started 2012-2013 with the following players missing/added compared to the start of the previous season: In: Cisse Amalfitano Bigirimana Good Anita Out: Guthrie Lovenkrands Smith Kadar Best Forster Shocking downgrade that like.. Cisse came in the January to replace Carroll so take him out... Guthrie + Best tower above the names you mention coming in... Not only that they actually showed on the pitch when called upon the season we finished 5th... You said you were only talking about the start of the season, Cisse wasn't here at the start of 2011-2012. What exactly do you want to compare here?, because it seems like a mishmash of whatever suits your argument. Start of this season... Hence we already had Cisse Best and Guthrie... We sold the later two and replaced them with Anita+Bigi (for Guthrie which you argued but even 2 put together has proved a downgrade so far in my eyes) and Best which we've not replaced just played Shola more which in my eyes is a downgrade also... Hence me saying we started THIS season with a smaller squad (your outs (6) are more than your ins (5) and thats not for accounting the waste that was Xisco and Ranger)... And in my eyes a poorer squad ... Hope that is clear enough? Just seems like you're narrowing things down to a very specific period here, anything else gets to be ignored. Even then its a pretty weak argument, Bigi's looked a good player to me, but very underutilised, same with Anita. Also while Guthrie and Best played well in a winning team last season neither of them are particularly good players there's no reason to believe those two could carry us. We also haven't improved overall since January despite some more very good players coming in. Pardew consistently bewilders me with his tactics and team selections, I'm not going to blame his failures on transfers. Not really... It's the period from finishing one season and starting the next... In my eyes we started this season with a smaller and weaker squad than last... Smaller i don't think can be argued as we sold/released more than we brought in... Quality can always be argued which is fair enough hence me arguing that Guthrie outperformed last season what Anita+Bigi have done this season... Best simply has not been replaced and i thought he contributed massively until Cisse arrived in the January (belatedly to replace Carroll from the previous January) of last season putting us in a very strong position for Cisse to pick up from which he did brilliantly... Basically all I'm saying is we should've bought who we did in January in the summer... The couple of million saved buying in the Winter transfer window would i'm guessing be easily made up with a higher league position that may of been achieved and they would've been all eligible for the Europe... It would've built nicely on the momentum we'd gathered and not had to play as many players early in the season who at times looked clearly unfit also at the same time give AP a fair chance to be judged... I definitely agree we should have done more in the summer, think everyone would agree with that. Though I think it would probably have cost around £15m extra to sign the same players in the summer as we ended up getting in January. Would only have cost us a couple of extra million to get Debuchy in, which would have made a significant difference. Though its hard to justify caving in to his club asking for one fee and then moving the goal posts late on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 The fact is as someone pointed out, he was bought 5 players!! All of which look worse now than when we got them. Anita is a good player, he now looks fucking awful, as he's being incorrectly used in a system that fits none of the players in our team. We are a long ball team, thats as simple as it is. And its not even effective long ball but its all he knows, hence the reason he will go in for Carroll and desperately wants him back. He needs to go soon, before he destroys us even further. Its plainly obvious he can not cut it with the calibre of players that we have. His plan is to play Cisse off Carroll. It's so patently obvious. Carroll will be here in the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I very much doubt there's anything about Guthrie that would have meant he bucked the trend that everyone who was good last season has been shit in this one. He's a much better 'footballer' than Tiote and is (this bit is funny) better physically than Anita. We could've done with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 The fact is as someone pointed out, he was bought 5 players!! All of which look worse now than when we got them. Anita is a good player, he now looks fucking awful, as he's being incorrectly used in a system that fits none of the players in our team. We are a long ball team, thats as simple as it is. And its not even effective long ball but its all he knows, hence the reason he will go in for Carroll and desperately wants him back. He needs to go soon, before he destroys us even further. Its plainly obvious he can not cut it with the calibre of players that we have. His plan is to play Cisse off Carroll. It's so patently obvious. Carroll will be here in the summer. Obvious he wants him here, just got to hope the club have more sense and sack him instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I very much doubt there's anything about Guthrie that would have meant he bucked the trend that everyone who was good last season has been shit in this one. He's a much better 'footballer' than Tiote and is (this bit is funny) better physically than Anita. We could've done with him. My biggest issue with Guthrie was his stamina like Cabaye's isn't up to scratch for a top flight PL footballer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I very much doubt there's anything about Guthrie that would have meant he bucked the trend that everyone who was good last season has been shit in this one. He's a much better 'footballer' than Tiote and is (this bit is funny) better physically than Anita. We could've done with him. When he's at his best he's a really good Footballer, but it was very rare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 The fact is as someone pointed out, he was bought 5 players!! All of which look worse now than when we got them. Anita is a good player, he now looks fucking awful, as he's being incorrectly used in a system that fits none of the players in our team. We are a long ball team, thats as simple as it is. And its not even effective long ball but its all he knows, hence the reason he will go in for Carroll and desperately wants him back. He needs to go soon, before he destroys us even further. Its plainly obvious he can not cut it with the calibre of players that we have. His plan is to play Cisse off Carroll. It's so patently obvious. Carroll will be here in the summer. Obvious he wants him here, just got to hope the club have more sense and sack him instead. Our team will consist of skells fighting over the second ball like rats outside a soup kitchen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFEE Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Right fine you're talking about the start of the season only. So we started 2012-2013 with the following players missing/added compared to the start of the previous season: In: Cisse Amalfitano Bigirimana Good Anita Out: Guthrie Lovenkrands Smith Kadar Best Forster Shocking downgrade that like.. Cisse came in the January to replace Carroll so take him out... Guthrie + Best tower above the names you mention coming in... Not only that they actually showed on the pitch when called upon the season we finished 5th... You said you were only talking about the start of the season, Cisse wasn't here at the start of 2011-2012. What exactly do you want to compare here?, because it seems like a mishmash of whatever suits your argument. Start of this season... Hence we already had Cisse Best and Guthrie... We sold the later two and replaced them with Anita+Bigi (for Guthrie which you argued but even 2 put together has proved a downgrade so far in my eyes) and Best which we've not replaced just played Shola more which in my eyes is a downgrade also... Hence me saying we started THIS season with a smaller squad (your outs (6) are more than your ins (5) and thats not for accounting the waste that was Xisco and Ranger)... And in my eyes a poorer squad ... Hope that is clear enough? Just seems like you're narrowing things down to a very specific period here, anything else gets to be ignored. Even then its a pretty weak argument, Bigi's looked a good player to me, but very underutilised, same with Anita. Also while Guthrie and Best played well in a winning team last season neither of them are particularly good players there's no reason to believe those two could carry us. We also haven't improved overall since January despite some more very good players coming in. Pardew consistently bewilders me with his tactics and team selections, I'm not going to blame his failures on transfers. Not really... It's the period from finishing one season and starting the next... In my eyes we started this season with a smaller and weaker squad than last... Smaller i don't think can be argued as we sold/released more than we brought in... Quality can always be argued which is fair enough hence me arguing that Guthrie outperformed last season what Anita+Bigi have done this season... Best simply has not been replaced and i thought he contributed massively until Cisse arrived in the January (belatedly to replace Carroll from the previous January) of last season putting us in a very strong position for Cisse to pick up from which he did brilliantly... Basically all I'm saying is we should've bought who we did in January in the summer... The couple of million saved buying in the Winter transfer window would i'm guessing be easily made up with a higher league position that may of been achieved and they would've been all eligible for the Europe... It would've built nicely on the momentum we'd gathered and not had to play as many players early in the season who at times looked clearly unfit also at the same time give AP a fair chance to be judged... I definitely agree we should have done more in the summer, think everyone would agree with that. Though I think it would probably have cost around £15m extra to sign the same players in the summer as we ended up getting in January. Would only have cost us a couple of extra million to get Debuchy in, which would have made a significant difference. Though its hard to justify caving in to his club asking for one fee and then moving the goal posts late on. You really reckon the difference would be £15m?... I know neither of us know for sure but i would hazard a guess nearer the £5m mark... Yes summer was a missed opportunity... We've seen under KK and SBR what momentum can bring to this club especially... I feel that has been lost and our new players have all been tarnished to an extent already with relegation woes and a heavy derby loss... The end of this season can't come quick enough for me... Hopefully starting the next in the same division... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I think it shows your ignorance to the contribution they both made in us finishing 5th... :lol: Ner, I just think you're coming up with some absolutely fucking preposterous excuses for why we are currently in a relegation battle. You said something about a middle ground in your other post, maybe you should heed your own advice a little? He isn't as bad a manager as this season has made him out to be, as I've said I don't think he's ever really had it perfect whilst he was here, however the cracks were apparent last season and this season has further highlighted them. He isn't a great manager and we'd do well to get rid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I very much doubt there's anything about Guthrie that would have meant he bucked the trend that everyone who was good last season has been shit in this one. He's a much better 'footballer' than Tiote and is (this bit is funny) better physically than Anita. We could've done with him. When he's at his best he's a really good Footballer, but it was very rare. I know, but I'd rather have him at his average this season than the two mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I'm talking about the summer... "Started the season"... By the time the new arrivals had joined we were out of 2 cups and in a relegation battle... Right fine you're talking about the start of the season only. So we started 2012-2013 with the following players missing/added compared to the start of the previous season: In: Cisse Amalfitano Bigirimana Good Anita Out: Guthrie Lovenkrands Smith Kadar Best Forster Shocking downgrade that like.. Cisse came in the January to replace Carroll so take him out... Guthrie + Best tower above the names you mention coming in... Not only that they actually showed on the pitch when called upon the season we finished 5th... You said you were only talking about the start of the season, Cisse wasn't here at the start of 2011-2012. What exactly do you want to compare here?, because it seems like a mishmash of whatever suits your argument. Start of this season... Hence we already had Cisse Best and Guthrie... We sold the later two and replaced them with Anita+Bigi (for Guthrie which you argued but even 2 put together has proved a downgrade so far in my eyes) and Best which we've not replaced just played Shola more which in my eyes is a downgrade also... Hence me saying we started THIS season with a smaller squad (your outs (6) are more than your ins (5) and thats not for accounting the waste that was Xisco and Ranger)... And in my eyes a poorer squad ... Hope that is clear enough? Just seems like you're narrowing things down to a very specific period here, anything else gets to be ignored. Even then its a pretty weak argument, Bigi's looked a good player to me, but very underutilised, same with Anita. Also while Guthrie and Best played well in a winning team last season neither of them are particularly good players there's no reason to believe those two could carry us. We also haven't improved overall since January despite some more very good players coming in. Pardew consistently bewilders me with his tactics and team selections, I'm not going to blame his failures on transfers. Not really... It's the period from finishing one season and starting the next... In my eyes we started this season with a smaller and weaker squad than last... Smaller i don't think can be argued as we sold/released more than we brought in... Quality can always be argued which is fair enough hence me arguing that Guthrie outperformed last season what Anita+Bigi have done this season... Best simply has not been replaced and i thought he contributed massively until Cisse arrived in the January (belatedly to replace Carroll from the previous January) of last season putting us in a very strong position for Cisse to pick up from which he did brilliantly... Basically all I'm saying is we should've bought who we did in January in the summer... The couple of million saved buying in the Winter transfer window would i'm guessing be easily made up with a higher league position that may of been achieved and they would've been all eligible for the Europe... It would've built nicely on the momentum we'd gathered and not had to play as many players early in the season who at times looked clearly unfit also at the same time give AP a fair chance to be judged... I definitely agree we should have done more in the summer, think everyone would agree with that. Though I think it would probably have cost around £15m extra to sign the same players in the summer as we ended up getting in January. Would only have cost us a couple of extra million to get Debuchy in, which would have made a significant difference. Though its hard to justify caving in to his club asking for one fee and then moving the goal posts late on. You really reckon the difference would be £15m?... I know neither of us know for sure but i would hazard a guess nearer the £5m mark... Yes summer was a missed opportunity... We've seen under KK and SBR what momentum can bring to this club especially... I feel that has been lost and our new players have all been tarnished to an extent already with relegation woes and a heavy derby loss... The end of this season can't come quick enough for me... Hopefully starting the next in the same division... In summer 2012 both Sissoko and Gouffran had just over a year left on their contracts, no panic at all at that point for either club to sell them. At an absolute minimum maybe we could have got them both for £10m. We ended up paying £2m (?) for both (mostly because they'd already agreed to join us for nothing at the end of their current contracts). Then there's Debuchy who we ended up getting for the original £5.75m we had turned down in the summer. Also wasn't Yanga-Mbiwa's contract running down in January? EDIT: Checked and Yanga-Mbiwa actually had 2 years left apparently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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