Jordan Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Wonder what Martinez would be like at us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 http://www.ftbpro.com/xposts/toonbano/75010/we-can-t-sack-pardew-but-we-can-t-back-him-either?ref=fb_post&team=Newcastle Bit ott in the language a few times, but generally sums it all up really well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Wonder what Martinez would be like at us. Wasn't there talk of him turning down the Liverpool job in the summer cos he won't have much say in the direction the club is going? Doubt he will fancy getting it here either with those clowns. Not to mention Whelan possibly making it as hard as possible for Ashley to get him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Last season's 5th place finish buys him some benefit of the doubt in my eyes, but that fades with each passing week and each non-performance. There's no question there's a major problem. I can't recall the last time we outplayed anyone and won convincingly, it hasn't happened once this season if you don't count Europe. Most of last season was the same story. The Anita signing was obviously strange and I said so at the time. Those cheering the signing probably felt more would come in but when we already had Tiote and Bigirimana you have to wonder who sanctioned that deal. Let's not forget Keegan walked out on the club after players were signed over his head, so there is a precedent here. I hope Anita comes good and bolsters our options but I can not figure out why he was signed. Despite the lack of resources we still lack an obvious gameplan even when everyone is fit and the buck stops with Pardew there. I don't think he has been allowed to buy players that fit into his preferred system. If the owner won't back him then he needs to make do. He needs to adopt a system to fit his players, but instead he is trying to make the players fit into his system. He's shoehorning them into unfamiliar roles and as a result has made us lesser than the sum of our parts. Witness things like Ba and Cisse making the same runs in the penalty box, Ben Arfa playing on the half way line and so on, these are things Pardew must be accountable for. I don't really think any manager will be a big success without the backing of the owner. They're not going to get that off Ashley, I think he got his fingers burnt with all Allardyce's crap buys. I hope Pardew will be creative enough to find a system that gets the most out of the players but the cracks have been showing for weeks now and nothing has been done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 http://www.ftbpro.com/xposts/toonbano/75010/we-can-t-sack-pardew-but-we-can-t-back-him-either?ref=fb_post&team=Newcastle Bit ott in the language a few times, but generally sums it all up really well. If it weren't for Ben Arfa and Cisse scoring the two goals of the season, we would have finished the season with just one win in six. That's wrong like. Both of those games we won 2-0, and comfortably beat Stoke at home in the middle. Generally though I find myself agreeing with it. Infuriating stuff being served up at present, and even ignoring the lack of investment in the squad, considering the talent at our disposal it's not good enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Btw we're also rock bottom of the current fair play table (calculated on 9 games). Whilst admittedly most of the categories are highly subjective, the table has us with the: 2nd worst disciplinary record (and this was before Colo's red card) 3rd worst positive play record Joint 2nd worst respect towards opponents Joint 4th worst respect towards referee Joint 2nd worst behaviour of club officials Generally our discipline this season has been abysmal so far, and it isn't helping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 If Pardew can't turn this round (start playing football) there's going to be a few players looking around for a move. Disturbingly I can't see Pardew changing it, hope I'm wrong. If I were Ashley I'd replace him tomorrow if I was SURE I was getting a better man in. Trouble is I don't think Ashley knows much about football and what would constitute a better man. you really are Mr Logic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 our team is too conditioned in the Pardew way. As in cautious football, defend deep and hit on the counter attack. its great when it works to a certain extent, as in terms of giving us a solid foundation and a defense thats hard to break down, we are organized in the back four. the problem is ....that is the only way the team knows how to play, when they are encouraged to attack as in vs Swansea, Bruge etc, the whole defense turns to shyt because they are not accustomed to that form of football, like being coached out of their game, too conditioned, sort of like institutionalized in school of Pardew. the only way our team knows how to flourish is be on the backfoot, and hope to catch teams out on the counter. We haven't got the pace or wide players of quality to play this type of game - you need fast forwards who will frighten defenders into staying back in order to play this type of game successfully. The tactics being used are useless for the players we have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Btw we're also rock bottom of the current fair play table (calculated on 9 games). Whilst admittedly most of the categories are highly subjective, the table has us with the: 2nd worst disciplinary record (and this was before Colo's red card) 3rd worst positive play record Joint 2nd worst respect towards opponents Joint 4th worst respect towards referee Joint 2nd worst behaviour of club officials Generally our discipline this season has been abysmal so far, and it isn't helping. We've been permanently bottom of that table for about 3 consecutive years Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 our team is too conditioned in the Pardew way. As in cautious football, defend deep and hit on the counter attack. its great when it works to a certain extent, as in terms of giving us a solid foundation and a defense thats hard to break down, we are organized in the back four. the problem is ....that is the only way the team knows how to play, when they are encouraged to attack as in vs Swansea, Bruge etc, the whole defense turns to shyt because they are not accustomed to that form of football, like being coached out of their game, too conditioned, sort of like institutionalized in school of Pardew. the only way our team knows how to flourish is be on the backfoot, and hope to catch teams out on the counter. We haven't got the pace or wide players of quality to play this type of game - you need fast forwards who will frighten defenders into staying back in order to play this type of game successfully. The tactics being used are useless for the players we have. cisse and ba are no slouches and ben arfa is pretty good out wide (even though i don't think it gets the best out of him) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I would be gutted if he was sacked now. The possibility is ludicrous anyway, no idea why people are wasting posts on it. Not many are tbf, but how long do you think we can put up with results and performances like this, bearing in mind how many players we're going to need to keep again next summer? full season of this and we'll have a problem like...i think HBA would stay with us as long as he was enjoying his football but very soon he probably won't be in this team, cabaye will want away unless he's able to start playing his game or they sign his best mate...then it'll be a house of cards imo shola will stay though i'm sure, help with the transition, he's good like that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miercoles Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 well, it's fair enough to put pressure on Pardew at this point, the team has been underachieving pretty blatantly. With that said, I have no desire to go back to the "new manager every 6 months" system that got us relegated before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 If Ashley was to sack Pardew, how much would that cost the club? Doesn't the remainder of his contract need to be paid off if he's sacked? 7 years wages? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxfree Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 If Ashley was to sack Pardew, how much would that cost the club? Doesn't the remainder of his contract need to be paid off if he's sacked? 7 years wages? http://www.nufcblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ashleyllambias2.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 We'd be a laughing stock for sacking Pardew. What if Everton had sacked Moyes during one of their poor seasons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I don't want to sack another manager, but neither do I have any confidence in Pardew to sort this mess out or the club to spend money in January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elliottman Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 We'd be a laughing stock for sacking Pardew. What if Everton had sacked Moyes during one of their poor seasons? I totally agree with you. Things are really poor at the moment but I dont think its the time to throw our toys out of the pram just yet. I'm certain things will improve when/if we get everyone fit and available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 If Ashley was to sack Pardew, how much would that cost the club? Doesn't the remainder of his contract need to be paid off if he's sacked? 7 years wages? http://www.nufcblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/ashleyllambias2.jpg Pardew would get a lot of money then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhaircut Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Re the long ball stuff, I honestly don't care if we play long ball. We beat Man U last season playing it, we played it under Bobby. My main gripe is that we do it really poorly. Other than Shola, none of our strikers can hold it up. We don't get our midfielders around the strikers or in the box when we have it wide. Direct football is fine if done well. You can get your dangerous players into dangerous areas quickly and effectively. We often went long to Shearer who got hold of it or flicked on it to Bellamy. We'd then turned defences and gave Robert and Solano a real platform to work off. At the moment it's just aimless and even if we do win it up top, it ends up just being played backwards with the hope that Hatem will skin everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Re the long ball stuff, I honestly don't care if we play long ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 Theoretically we could still pull the long ball game off, if we actually moved the midfield up a little bit. No centre forward wins every single header (I know we rarely win any), what's really important is to have people following up to pick up the second balls but our central midfielders are always so deep, we always end up surrendering possession. Ironically, Pards played Anita at the tip of a diamond for much of the first half and a bit in the second on the weekend, that's not his position at all and you could tell he wasn't confident enough to collect the ball in such a congested area. However I think Cabaye (or even HBA or Marveaux) could actually do some damage there but he's always played used as defensive cover and I think there lies the key to our problems, the complete mis-use of our main central midfielder. I'm not at all condoning playing long ball as it really doesn't suit our players but if we're going to do it, we might as well do it properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinmk Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 We'd be a laughing stock for sacking Pardew. What if Everton had sacked Moyes during one of their poor seasons? They knew we'd be a laughing stock if we sacked Hughton and they still did it. I hope they have learned from their (many)mistakes this time but who knows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 We should of course be talking about our problems and what the solutions might be, I just think it's insanely premature to talk about changing the manager. I would be very disappointed if it happened, because yet again we would be letting fear of a short term downturn ruin any chance of stability. The way I see it there's 2 ways out of this: 1) Pardew changes his entire footballing philosophy and starts focusing in what WE do with the ball first and foremost. 2) Pardew, Ashley, Llambias and Carr have a bit of a heart to heart, admit we're a keep it tight, direct, long ball team and we will be for the foreseeable future and start buying the players necessary to make the style work. Number 1 seems unlikely, especially mid season, and 2 won't happen successfully, even if that conversation were to take place and the plan put into action it would get derailed every time someone like Marveuax became available on a free, because we always go for the cheaper option when given a choice. My faith in Pardew is at an all time low but I do think if we got some players in to suit his style (specifically a new centre forward, De Jong or Carroll as he tried) that we can still be a solid top 8 team under him, particularly if we phase out the likes of Simpson and replace with quality. The hard part is continuing to con the quality players into coming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 We should of course be talking about our problems and what the solutions might be, I just think it's insanely premature to talk about changing the manager. I would be very disappointed if it happened, because yet again we would be letting fear of a short term downturn ruin any chance of stability. The way I see it there's 2 ways out of this: 1) Pardew changes his entire footballing philosophy and starts focusing in what WE do with the ball first and foremost. 2) Pardew, Ashley, Llambias and Carr have a bit of a heart to heart, admit we're a keep it tight, direct, long ball team and we will be for the foreseeable future and start buying the players necessary to make the style work. Number 1 seems unlikely, especially mid season, and 2 won't happen successfully, even if that conversation were to take place and the plan put into action it would get derailed every time someone like Marveuax became available on a free, because we always go for the cheaper option when given a choice. My faith in Pardew is at an all time low but I do think if we got some players in to suit his style (specifically a new centre forward, De Jong or Carroll as he tried) that we can still be a solid top 8 team under him, particularly if we phase out the likes of Simpson and replace with quality. The hard part is continuing to con the quality players into coming. I wouldn't disagree with much of that but the thought of us bringing in players like Carroll to suit Pardew's playing style depresses the hell out of me. Yes we could be a solid top 8 side but that's all we'll ever be playing that way. If we invested that Carroll money on a full back and a central defender we could be challenging the top 4 if we developed the football instead of the long ball strategy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I don't really believe that 'long ball' is Pardew's philosophy, it's more that he concentrates more on defence than attack in his thinking. If we replaced Simpson and Williamson with some actual footballers we would send it long a lot less. The lack of movement in midfield is also an issue, but maybe it's a vicious circle. The midfielders constantly see the ball flying over their heads, so they stop coming short to receive it, so the defenders have to launch it. The fact that he's so interested in Carroll depresses me as well like, I really don't want him back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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