Mick Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Bet you my grandad could chin your grandad though. I'll be chinning you if you quote me again with you own text then delete you original post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I think you get managers who have an idea of how they want a team set up, formations, etc and then encourage/coach/coerce the players to fit into that system. Other managers look at what they've got and choose a system/style that suits the players at his disposal. Both these attitudes have there merits imo and there have been very successful managers from both schools of thought. I think Pardew is in the former camp. His problem is that the team isn't really performing the way he wants because they're not best suited to that style. His other (and massive) problem is that i don't think he gets to choose (100%) the players that are bought and sold. So, i think he's looking at it and is trying to find a system that suits the players he's got. But he's not getting it right (yet). He'll know this better than anyone but to keep the players believing in him he focuses on the positives of the performances A good post wasted, most of the team we started with yesterday have been here for more than a year. He's had more than long enough to work out who fits where. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 ...and he's also seen what actually works, as well. That's the frustrating thing. He will absolutely not play Ba on the left like. I hate to think that it's as spineless as him doing it not to offend him, but it's starting to look more and more likely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Ba is playing well through the middle and he's happy to start Cisse out wide in a three against Bordeaux, move him there against Man U and even start him on the bench in the last two league games. That being the case, you would have thought we'd have seen the 4-3-3 with Papiss wide or someone like Sammy, Fergie or even Obertan. Instead, we played Shola Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
themanupstairs Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 How many times has he changed things around this season after his starting tactics haven't been working? Don't get me wrong it's good that he can spot this during a match, but it's still concerning that he's had to do this quite a few times. Sick of him already using the Europa League as an excuse as well. Sir Bobby never used Europe as an excuse and some of our post European performances where fantastic. If you give players an excuse then they will use it to mask their performances. Stop talking a good game Alan and let's see some improvements on the pitch. I'm not sure I remember this accurately, but didn't SBR make only minor changes for the European games? IIRC we had quite a consistent starting 11 for all major competitions - injuries/suspensions allowing. The more the same players play together, the better understanding they will develop. At the moment our starting 11 have been chopped and changed for nearly every game we've played (variety of reasons) and imo this is the reason we haven't got going yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 ...and he's also seen what actually works, as well. That's the frustrating thing. He will absolutely not play Ba on the left like. I hate to think that it's as spineless as him doing it not to offend him, but it's starting to look more and more likely. I also find this very, very frustrating. I imagine Pardew does too fwiw and I think Ba will be moved on before too long, as much for his wage demands and general trying to have his cake and eat it with release clauses etc etc as anything else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I've had long standing concerns over Tiote and Cabaye (personally I dont think either would get in a English CL side) whilst time will tell whether Cisse is true quality or just a player who went through a mad purple patch last season. Cabaye wouldn't be a playmaker for a top side but he would get in ahead of Milner, Barry & a few of the Arsenal lads. Woudl be a regular for Everton. Tiote would get into any team outside the top 4/5 imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 My biggest single gripe with Pardew is that there seems to be no over arching plans. Not for selection, formation, playing style, nothing. I'm not sure he has a plan for anything. What formation does he want us to play? How does he want us to play? What youngsters has he identified to break into the first team set-up? Everything seems very ad hoc. Does he have any long-term plans for Marveaux/Anita? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Is Phil Neville first choice for Everton? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbandit Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I think he needs to be brave and drop Jonas for Ferguson. It's a no-brainer for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I think he needs to be brave and drop Jonas for Ferguson. It's a no-brainer for me If we go back to 4-4-2 yeah but we played 4-5-1 last night and later on moved to 4-2-3-1 and against a team who are obsessed with possession and control(Liverpool) it would make sense if we match up again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Is Phil Neville first choice for Everton? He's captain, mate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lush Vlad Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 How many times has he changed things around this season after his starting tactics haven't been working? Don't get me wrong it's good that he can spot this during a match, but it's still concerning that he's had to do this quite a few times. Sure I read someone on here saying pretty much this a while ago. Might have been you in fairness? Basically, if you're Plan B, has to keep becoming your Plan A. Then you have a problem. Story of our season so far isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sugoinufc Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 My biggest single gripe with Pardew is that there seems to be no over arching plans. Not for selection, formation, playing style, nothing. I'm not sure he has a plan for anything. What formation does he want us to play? How does he want us to play? What youngsters has he identified to break into the first team set-up? Everything seems very ad hoc. Does he have any long-term plans for Marveaux/Anita? spot on imo. hard to believe its true though. results is not enough to keep us and especially players happy. our best players cant be happy if this anti-football continues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Let's play some fukin football already!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayson Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 My biggest single gripe with Pardew is that there seems to be no over arching plans. Not for selection, formation, playing style, nothing. I'm not sure he has a plan for anything. What formation does he want us to play? How does he want us to play? What youngsters has he identified to break into the first team set-up? Everything seems very ad hoc. Does he have any long-term plans for Marveaux/Anita? spot on imo. hard to believe its true though. results is not enough to keep us and especially players happy. our best players cant be happy if this anti-football continues. Formation & resulting style of play is obviously up in the air, the rest seems pretty clear really. If Ba's out id fully expect us to go back to 4-3-3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legacy Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 One thing that has bugged me is the amount of times our players just stand and watch whoever has the ball, especially when Ben arfa has it, but even when one our cm's has the ball.. the other cm's are either nowhere near him or are just standing watching. West brom passed through our centre midfield yesterday with ease on a number of occasions, especially 2nd half and it wasn't like they were doing anything special, they just showed for the ball, moved and released to another runner.. just why on earth can we not do this? The amount of times we end up just passing to the back 4 because there are no options is incredible.. usually just ends up in us just punting the ball out from krul/defence. Ben arfa and cabaye for Ba's goal against spurs is about the only time i can think of this season where we have passed and moved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sima Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 i think everyone knows what our best XI and formation is. The problem with it is that Ba was out on the left in our most effective formation but as he's in-form at the minute and Cissé isn't, it would be madness to put Cissé up top and I'm unconvinced with him on the left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BooBoo Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Fair point above. Our movement off the ball is shocking, in particular yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 One thing that has bugged me is the amount of times our players just stand and watch whoever has the ball, especially when Ben arfa has it, but even when one our cm's has the ball.. the other cm's are either nowhere near him or are just standing watching. West brom passed through our centre midfield yesterday with ease on a number of occasions, especially 2nd half and it wasn't like they were doing anything special, they just showed for the ball, moved and released to another runner.. just why on earth can we not do this? The amount of times we end up just passing to the back 4 because there are no options is incredible.. usually just ends up in us just punting the ball out from krul/defence. Ben arfa and cabaye for Ba's goal against spurs is about the only time i can think of this season where we have passed and moved. Because it's not in Pardew's nature to play a pass and move game. He's come from low profile teams where the long ball is used effectively to punch above their weight similar to Sam Allardyce. He does try and incorporate some passing, but it's mostly just impressive talk. It doesn't look like we practice it on the pitch at all, and under the slightest bit of pressure it's Shola up front and long balls to the big lads. He doesn't really believe in the passing game IMO, and looks unsure how to implement it. It looks to me that players like Cisse and Marveaux are getting stick on here when more than likely the style of football is more suited to the Sholas and Martin O Neill type of players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 One thing that has bugged me is the amount of times our players just stand and watch whoever has the ball, especially when Ben arfa has it, but even when one our cm's has the ball.. the other cm's are either nowhere near him or are just standing watching. West brom passed through our centre midfield yesterday with ease on a number of occasions, especially 2nd half and it wasn't like they were doing anything special, they just showed for the ball, moved and released to another runner.. just why on earth can we not do this? The amount of times we end up just passing to the back 4 because there are no options is incredible.. usually just ends up in us just punting the ball out from krul/defence. Ben arfa and cabaye for Ba's goal against spurs is about the only time i can think of this season where we have passed and moved. Because it's not in Pardew's nature to play a pass and move game. He's come from low profile teams where the long ball is used effectively to punch above their weight similar to Sam Allardyce. He does try and incorporate some passing, but it's mostly just impressive talk. It doesn't look like we practice it on the pitch at all, and under the slightest bit of pressure it's Shola up front and long balls to the big lads. He doesn't really believe in the passing game IMO, and looks unsure how to implement it. It looks to me that players like Cisse and Marveaux are getting stick on here when more than likely the style of football is more suited to the Sholas and Martin O Neill type of players. Agree with all of that. Pardew sticks to what he knows which is percentages. Players moving around or going forward too much and losing position in a passing movement worries him. Our players try as much as possible to hold thier zone and their core position and then reboot. This keeps the team profile solid and hard to score against (that's the theory anyway -MON - Allardyce and Moyes - but he's changed the last couple of seasons). I suspect he's been pawing at statistics too much which often don't tell the full picture. Often 3/4 touches may lead to a goal (like the kick from Krul goal on Sunday) and nobody has to have deserted their positon (Shola just moved in a bit). He looks at mistakes (goals conceded when there is a corner up the other end and the breakaway). Ironically these kinds of stats are the surface of the game but now with prozone and so on they have become the new gloss. Tbf to Pards he's a bit like an unpolished Mourinho who has had his fair shair of very static and defensive formations (remember how Chelsea used to lob it to Drogba a lot?) Just that a lot of Mou's overfocused research (see all his assistants and their number crunching - Clarke etc) is gilded with teams full of stars. P like Mourinho is only interested in winning football. Even now two sprinters wait on the half way line (Benzema and one other) while the whole team defends. P still really wants Carroll as the focus, that should tell you everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenham Mag Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Fair point above. Our movement off the ball is shocking, in particular yesterday. Indeed, the only one making runs was Ba. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Fair point above. Our movement off the ball is shocking, in particular yesterday. Indeed, the only one making runs was Ba. Maybe they aren't encouraged to move about too much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Carver needs shooting as an attacking coach, like. No clue whatsoever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WashyGeordie Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Carver needs shooting as an attacking coach, like. No clue whatsoever. Sack the board Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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