Newcastle United 1 - 1 Aston Villa - 02/09/12 - post-match reaction from page 39

[Tiresias]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:21, joeyt said:

How are our centre backs supposed to score 8 goals when we can't get the ball anywhere near them from corners

 

This, our corners were dreadful, would prefer just short corners if none of the players can actually take a good one

[NG32]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:20, Yorkie said:

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Oh, and with all the fullback options injured the vast majority of the players out there today have no competition for places. They know they're in the side next match no matter what.

 

Goalkeeper? Nope.

Fullbacks? Don't make me laugh.

Central defence? Not unless someone gets injured.

Midfield? Cabaye is guaranteed to start and Tiote's competition is now an 18 year old.

Wingers? Depends on the formation. Not much, really.

Strikers? Literally none.

 

The failure to bring in the players we needed has knock-on effects that have already come into play, days later.

 

The lack of competition really worries me. The mentality of some of our attackers is bad enough at the moment.

 

And that mentality is ?

 

Pedestrian. Clearly.

 

People harp on about the s**** delivery from our midfielders and full-backs today (it was terrible like), but the lack of urgency in the box was just as bad. Obviously if the ball's smacking the first defender's forehead every time, you can't really blame the strikers - but it didn't happen every time - and there was no real energy or movement in the box from Ba or Cisse. The Cisse that utterly killed Liverpool with his movement was on another planet today like.

 

In what what?

 

*sorry you already answered.

 

I dont know if its mentality thats the problem, i think Ba and Cisse dont work well together...in a 442 scenario.

 

Its still early days yet tho.

[Newcastle Fan]

Awful performance, we played with no heart and no real conviction, Vila simply wanted the game more than us and were lucky to have a player with Ben Arfa's talent to rescue something for us, our two strikers are  really looking bad at the start of this season, they just don't seem up to it as they were last season, the midfield isn't creating much and our crossing is fucking shit..think this team has a lot more potential than what is showing and its up for Pardew to sort this out.

[Yorkie]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:23, Northerngimp said:

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Oh, and with all the fullback options injured the vast majority of the players out there today have no competition for places. They know they're in the side next match no matter what.

 

Goalkeeper? Nope.

Fullbacks? Don't make me laugh.

Central defence? Not unless someone gets injured.

Midfield? Cabaye is guaranteed to start and Tiote's competition is now an 18 year old.

Wingers? Depends on the formation. Not much, really.

Strikers? Literally none.

 

The failure to bring in the players we needed has knock-on effects that have already come into play, days later.

 

The lack of competition really worries me. The mentality of some of our attackers is bad enough at the moment.

 

And that mentality is ?

 

Pedestrian. Clearly.

 

People harp on about the s**** delivery from our midfielders and full-backs today (it was terrible like), but the lack of urgency in the box was just as bad. Obviously if the ball's smacking the first defender's forehead every time, you can't really blame the strikers - but it didn't happen every time - and there was no real energy or movement in the box from Ba or Cisse. The Cisse that utterly killed Liverpool with his movement was on another planet today like.

 

In what what?

 

 

Eh?

[Wullie]

Ba, Cisse and Cabaye were exactly the same last season at home against Norwich, mackems, Wolves and Villa when we played 4-4-2 and just whacked high balls at them. Fuck all to do with effort or fitness.

[Conjo]

Result was expected. Villa had 0 points going into this game, and worked themselves to victory.

 

Only real negative from this game I can take is the tactic of Krul hoofing the ball up each and every time. The games so far this season he has played it short to build up attacks most of the time, and im not sure why Pardew thought it would be a good idea to do otherwise in this game.

[Mole_Toonfan]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:25, Wullie said:

Ba, Cisse and Cabaye were exactly the same last season at home against Norwich, mackems, Wolves and Villa when we played 4-4-2 and just whacked high balls at them. f*** all to do with effort or fitness.

 

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:14, midds said:

w***.

 

Disjointed, lethargic, unbalanced and disorganised. How many more performances like that is it going to take for Pardew to change things? Why wait for it to fail before changing things around?

 

The team comes first and if that means upsetting Ba by asking him to play wider then so be it. Awful performance and quite lucky to get a point tbph.

 

spot on

[NG32]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:24, Yorkie said:

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Oh, and with all the fullback options injured the vast majority of the players out there today have no competition for places. They know they're in the side next match no matter what.

 

Goalkeeper? Nope.

Fullbacks? Don't make me laugh.

Central defence? Not unless someone gets injured.

Midfield? Cabaye is guaranteed to start and Tiote's competition is now an 18 year old.

Wingers? Depends on the formation. Not much, really.

Strikers? Literally none.

 

The failure to bring in the players we needed has knock-on effects that have already come into play, days later.

 

The lack of competition really worries me. The mentality of some of our attackers is bad enough at the moment.

 

And that mentality is ?

 

Pedestrian. Clearly.

 

People harp on about the s**** delivery from our midfielders and full-backs today (it was terrible like), but the lack of urgency in the box was just as bad. Obviously if the ball's smacking the first defender's forehead every time, you can't really blame the strikers - but it didn't happen every time - and there was no real energy or movement in the box from Ba or Cisse. The Cisse that utterly killed Liverpool with his movement was on another planet today like.

 

In what what?

 

 

Eh?

 

I went back an edited my post.

 

sorry. 

[QBG]

Poor performance overall. We struggled for much of the game in the midfield and Cisse looked poor again. Worth mentioning that Guzan was brilliant in goal for them, and as many have said they worked very hard and deserved a point from the game.

 

Still some positives we can take from the game, Bigirimana was excellent and we looked a lot better when Anita went to right-back. Ben Arfa can win games by himself and if he can stay fit he's going to have one hell of a year. At the end of the day most of us would have taken 4 points from the first three games and Pardew now has time to sort things out over the international break. Slightly concerning display, but certainly no need to panic just yet.

 

Krul 6

Simpson 5

Taylor 6

Colo 6

Santon 6

Ben Arfa 7

Anita 6.5

Cabaye 5

Jonas 6

Cisse 5

Ba 5

 

Bigi 7

Marveaux 6

Obertan 6

[littlelunchbox]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:13, Dave said:

Oh, and with all the fullback options injured the vast majority of the players out there today have no competition for places. They know they're in the side next match no matter what.

 

Goalkeeper? Nope.

Fullbacks? Don't make me laugh.

Central defence? Not unless someone gets injured.

Midfield? Cabaye is guaranteed to start and Tiote's competion is now an 18 year old.

Wingers? Depends on the formation. Not much, really.

Strikers? Literally none.

 

The failure to bring in the players we needed has knock-on effects that have already come into play, days later.

 

we got plenty of option at fullback,  raylor, perch, simpson, fergie, santon, tavernier, anita, even saylor and jonas can play there.  yeh i know not many of them are world class, but we are nowhere near the finance of a top4 side yet.

 

our midfield is decent enough, with bigi, anita, abeid, marveax, tiote, cabaye , amalfitano, vuckic, hba, jonas, oberdong as a midfield of 5 or 3 combination, these players are decent.

 

upfront is where we lack strength for a 2 man strike force,  because ba and cisse are too similar.  we just need to utilize the players properly.  with the strikers we got it should be one man up top supported by two wide men either side of him.  why pardew does not like this idea i will never know.

 

 

[Parsley]

If we do go in for another striker in January, then it has to be a quick, busy type with a good engine who can run the channels. Ba and Cisse are just too similar and too static in their movement to keep defenders on their toes in this current system.

 

Poor performance and Villa deserved at least a point - by far the more fluid and cohesive of the two sides. Anita and Bigirimana were both excellent though. Marveaux and Obertan had a positive impact when they came on and I'd genuinely consider bringing one of them in for either Ba or Cisse for the Everton game; Marveaux in particular distributes the ball well which can only help from an attacking perspective.

[indi]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:13, Dave said:

Oh, and with all the fullback options injured the vast majority of the players out there today have no competition for places. They know they're in the side next match no matter what.

 

Goalkeeper? Nope.

Fullbacks? Don't make me laugh.

Central defence? Not unless someone gets injured.

Midfield? Cabaye is guaranteed to start and Tiote's competition is now an 18 year old.

Wingers? Depends on the formation. Not much, really.

Strikers? Literally none.

 

The failure to bring in the players we needed has knock-on effects that have already come into play, days later.

 

These are fully grown men we're talking about, if they can't motivate themselves to do better than that simply because there's no-one to replace them then that's a shocking state of affairs. This lot finished 5th last season and played some great football along the way, we know that they can play well, if they want to. I have no competition for my place at work either, but I don't fuck off down the pub and get wasted every day instead of working, they should have more professional pride than that, ffs. I know everyone wants to believe that our transfer dealings - or lack of them - and the evil men responsible are to blame for everything that is wrong in the world, but that should have had nothing whatsoever to do with how poorly we've started the season and if they have then our players have reached a new low for humanity in how pathetic they are being. As I said before, this team - with the exception of Bigi and Anita, who were the best players on the park today anyway - would have given that Villa side a total kicking last season and there's no excuse for them not doing so today.

[David28]

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"I can't say that we deserved to win and you could argue that Villa did," Pardew explained. "We were a bit funny today, we lacked discipline and our set-plays were awful.

 

"It was a nightmare from a coaching point of view. We were better in the second half but they still had chances. Both managers probably walk away and think a point is fair but we won't come across many teams that will work as hard as Villa did."

 

Don't think we were too funny, Alan.

[indi]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:15, Tooj said:

Thought Villa were quite cynical as well.

 

Very.

[Yorkie]

Reasonable quotes really. He never lays into the players but he's not suger-coated anything there.

[Dave]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:28, littlelunchbox said:

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Oh, and with all the fullback options injured the vast majority of the players out there today have no competition for places. They know they're in the side next match no matter what.

 

Goalkeeper? Nope.

Fullbacks? Don't make me laugh.

Central defence? Not unless someone gets injured.

Midfield? Cabaye is guaranteed to start and Tiote's competion is now an 18 year old.

Wingers? Depends on the formation. Not much, really.

Strikers? Literally none.

 

The failure to bring in the players we needed has knock-on effects that have already come into play, days later.

 

we got plenty of option at fullback,  raylor, perch, simpson, fergie, santon, tavernier, anita, even saylor and jonas can play there.  yeh i know not many of them are world class, but we are nowhere near the finance of a top4 side yet.

 

our midfield is decent enough, with bigi, anita, abeid, marveax, tiote, cabaye , amalfitano, vuckic, hba, jonas, oberdong as a midfield of 5 or 3 combination, these players are decent.

 

upfront is where we lack strength for a 2 man strike force,  because ba and cisse are too similar.  we just need to utilize the players properly.  with the strikers we got it should be one man up top supported by two wide men either side of him.  why pardew does not like this idea i will never know.

 

 

 

Highlighted the players unavailable for one reason or another (injury or required elsewhere). I'm talking about right now, with only three games played. God knows what it could be like later in the season.

[Beren]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:17, johnnypd said:

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The 4-3-3 argument has been done to death but I'm really not sure how anyone can dispute its necessity. It's easy saying "it's not that simple blah blah blah" but once again we looked a lot better once we made the switch. 

 

We're setting up to not lose games then switching to 4-3-3 as a response if and when it goes tits up. That mentality's not acceptable to me with the players we have, especially at home.

 

 

We play good football the odd game in seven. Our results otherwise are/were achieved by improbable individual skill from Ba, then Cisse.

 

Our defensive discipline is generally good, though we are prone to implode on occasion. Our set pieces are horrific, and I genuinely get worried when we win one because I'm more concerned we'll concede on the break from one of OUR attacking set pieces than in open play.

 

It's Pardew's philosophy to keep things secure at the back, work hard and prepare meticulously for games. Do that and just hope that the stars up front can produce end product. No real work seems to be spent on our fluidity as a team, at least by Pardew - from what was said last season, that's in Carver's remit.

 

Unfortunately with a minimum of 10 extra games this season we don't have enough depth any more to out-work teams. What's more, with the European matches and overseas travel we're basically losing out on a whole week of preparation for plenty of games as well - so that's out the window too. And with extra games comes extra injuries and niggles, as we've already seen, so the chances of having a settled side also get reduced.

 

Having not bolstered ourselves in the window with exciting additions the momentum seems to have been lost and the likes of Cabaye, Jonas, Ba and Cisse need not worry about competition for their places. Never mind full-back or central defence we should've been looking for a couple of strikers, wide forwards, wingers or attacking midfielders to keep pressure on what we already have.

 

As for the formation - is there anyone out there who thinks persisting with 4-4-2 is a good idea when our two strikers can't play together, it restricts our best player (HBA) and our two in midfield get over-ran?

 

 

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Ba, Cisse and Cabaye were exactly the same last season at home against Norwich, mackems, Wolves and Villa when we played 4-4-2 and just whacked high balls at them. Fuck all to do with effort or fitness.

 

Agree. People burying their heads in the sand over a worrying lack of evolution. I don't mind losing (like we did to Wigan at the back end of last season , playing 4-3-3 against them) as long as we're evolving and moving forward. Performances and attitudes towards game like today royally piss me off though.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Just got back. Villa are shit and yet our tactics seemed to be aimed towards helping them. I love the bloke, but Pardew got it all wrong and didn't change it. Customary mention of 442 being a waste of everything.

[Dave]

Fair comments from Pardew btw.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Slow start to the season, not a good performance at all today. Our players are still class though, it will click eventually.

 

Confusing to see us play the ball long from Krul so often, when we've actively been trying to avoid that so far this season. Worrying that we didn't create many chances, but hoping that the sharpness and energy will come soon with competitive matches.

 

I didn't see much to give Villa a lot of credit for, I think other teams get far too much credit on here. They were just about OK, but not a good performance by any means.

 

I would love to see us go back to proper 4-3-3, but it seems Pards is set against it for some reason.

[Yorkie]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:25, Wullie said:

Ba, Cisse and Cabaye were exactly the same last season at home against Norwich, mackems, Wolves and Villa when we played 4-4-2 and just whacked high balls at them. Fuck all to do with effort or fitness.

 

The formation is definitely the main problem - i absolutely hate the 4-4-2 - but those three don't look particularly motivated either. Cabaye just wasn't picking his arse up; he's petulant at the best of times but today he just looked disinterested. Was infuriating to watch. They can be pissed off, but they're not allowed to let boardroom failures effect their performance. Not one bit.

[indi]

I think if we're going to play Ba and Cisse up front then we should play HBA in the hole behind them and try to feed them that way. If Anita continues at right-back both him and Santon can get forward to provide some width whilst the other three in midfield can cover the middle of the pitch. Reckon that's the only way it's ever going to work.

[Yorkie]

..... dafuq?

[Spudil]

  On 02/09/2012 at 17:38, indi said:

I think if we're going to play Ba and Cisse up front then we should play HBA in the hole behind them and try to feed them that way. If Anita continues at right-back both him and Santon can get forward to provide some width whilst the other three in midfield can cover the middle of the pitch. Reckon that's the only way it's ever going to work.

 

Anita is never a fullback man.