How highly do you rate... Robert Pires?

[Tiresias]

Iniesta vs Zindane? Tough one. Former is such a brilliant big name player. With Xavi and Messi don't think 3 players as good have ever formed such a partnership in any one team. In all honestly don't feel seen enough Zidane to say.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Iniesta is the closet to Zidane in terms of style from this generation.

 

Iniesta's close control, dribbling, passing and link up play is better than Zidane's.  He's also eclipsed him in terms of domestic and international tournaments.

 

What I loved about Zidane though was his ability to hold off players with such ease whilst playing so gracefully, he did make football look like an art.  The cliche about Zidane having an aura about him is true, but he just didn't do it consistently enough throughout a season.  Although when he did show up in big games he looked a class above anyone else in the world.

 

He only won La Liga once in his 5 years there during a galactico era.  Only won the champions league once aswell.  He didn't carry a great team onto greatness like Xavi, Iniesta or even Ronaldinho have.

 

Zidane never played in a team as good as the Guardiola Barca team.  Put a peak Zidane in that team and who knows.

 

Seems like an excuse to me, Zidane played with a galaxy of great players at Madrid(arguably individually on Guardiola's Barca's level if not superior) because they couldn't come together as a team is no one's fault but their own.

 

Iniesta vs Zindane? Tough one. Former is such a brilliant big name player. With Xavi and Messi don't think 3 players as good have ever formed such a partnership in any one team. In all honestly don't feel seen enough Zidane to say.

 

The one that always comes up in this debate is the Milan trio of Rijkaard, Gullit and Van Basten there's always trios of decades gone by like the 82 Brazil team of Falcao, Zico and Socrates etc etc but they didn't win anything unfortunately so in recent times the Milan trio of Rijkaard, Gullit and Van Basten are probably the closest in comparison.

[Hughesy]

Iniesta is the closet to Zidane in terms of style from this generation.

 

Iniesta's close control, dribbling, passing and link up play is better than Zidane's.  He's also eclipsed him in terms of domestic and international tournaments.

 

What I loved about Zidane though was his ability to hold off players with such ease whilst playing so gracefully, he did make football look like an art.  The cliche about Zidane having an aura about him is true, but he just didn't do it consistently enough throughout a season.  Although when he did show up in big games he looked a class above anyone else in the world.

 

He only won La Liga once in his 5 years there during a galactico era.  Only won the champions league once aswell.  He didn't carry a great team onto greatness like Xavi, Iniesta or even Ronaldinho have.

 

Zidane never played in a team as good as the Guardiola Barca team.  Put a peak Zidane in that team and who knows.

 

Seems like an excuse to me, Zidane played with a galaxy of great players at Madrid(arguably individually on Guardiola's Barca's level if not superior) because they couldn't come together as a team is no one's fault but their own.

 

Not sure what you are getting at - Zidane didn't play in as good a team as Iniesta/Xavi.  The fact that the Madrid team didn't play as a team or weren't as a cohesive unit as the Barca team of today can't be used as a stick to beat Zidane with.  Zidane wasn't responsible for the team spirit at Madrid, in the same way that any one individual isn't responsible for the team spirit at Barca. 

 

[relámpago blanco]

Not sure what you are getting at - Zidane didn't play in as good a team as Iniesta/Xavi.

Yeah that France team was pretty shit tbh.

[Hughesy]

Not sure what you are getting at - Zidane didn't play in as good a team as Iniesta/Xavi.

Yeah that France team was pretty s*** tbh.

 

He did pretty well in that French team I seem to remember...

 

The criticism being levelled at Zidane was that he didn't win enough with Madrid.

[Beren]

Not sure what you are getting at - Zidane didn't play in as good a team as Iniesta/Xavi.

Yeah that France team was pretty s*** tbh.

 

He did pretty well in that French team I seem to remember...

 

The criticism being levelled at Zidane was that he didn't win enough with Madrid.

 

http://i764.photobucket.com/albums/xx284/TheWacoKidd/black_kid_whoa.gif

[The College Dropout]

Kaka threatened but he for me was always the Brazilian Lampard with a bit more flair.

 

 

Another one for the HTT scrapbook.

 

5 years ago Kaka was the best player in the world and single handedly won Milan the champions league.  It's an insult to put him in the same bracket as Lampard.

 

Single handidly with Seedorf, Pirlo, Shevchenko, Maldini etc.

 

He was never a true playmaker more of a forward/goal threat so HTT isn't that wrong. Same with Lampard, being a goal threat was his prime attribute.

[Guest firetotheworks]

People will say that Xavi, Iniesta and Messi play in a great team, but as individuals and together, those three are the most significant reason that the team is great, imo. Zidane played with Figo and Ronaldo ffs, as well as Henry and co in a team that won the World and European cups.

[Hughesy]

People will say that Xavi, Iniesta and Messi play in a great team, but as individuals and together, those three are the most significant reason that the team is great, imo. Zidane played with Figo and Ronaldo ffs, as well as Henry and co in a team that won the World and European cups.

 

Again - I am not sure exactly what is being argued.  Clearly Zidane played in a great French team (query whether the team was as good on an individual level as the Spain team of today?  They did have Guivarch up front.. ).  And he was incredibly successful in that team and was, indisputedly, the main driver for that French team's success.

 

He played with great individuals at Real Madrid, but they were never a 'team', certainly not in the way the Barca team.  Essentially a team with few egos, schooled from an early age in playing a particular way, a large number of homegrown players etc.  That, I would argue, is why Zidane didn't win as much with Madrid as he perhaps should have.

 

As I said earlier, put Zidane in that Barca team and think about how much he would have won.  Alternatively, put one of Messi, Iniesta and Xavi in the 'galacticos' team.  Would Madrid have won more than with Zidane?  Extremely unlikely.

 

[Disco]

It's probably worth mentioning that Zidane was instrumental in the Juve team during his time there and didn't just play for Real Madrid.

[Guest JS]

It's probably worth mentioning that Zidane was instrumental in the Juve team during his time there and didn't just play for Real Madrid.

[Dave]

Tend to agree with James btw (wat), this thread series needs to throw in some more contentious players. Players from these shores would be interesting as well, there's always a bit more mystique about the ones who've never played on a wet January night in Stoke... There's probably been more chat about Oliver Kahn than Zidane this time.

 

My suggestion, putting aside all the ill-feeling about him as a person and how cack he is now: Michael Owen.

[Flip]

It's probably worth mentioning that Zidane was instrumental in the Juve team during his time there and didn't just play for Real Madrid.

 

I have been thinking this all along. Why didnt anyone mention it earlier? Its not like he was born in '98

[Mole_Toonfan]

I also remember Juventus winning hardly anything while he was there.....

 

Well they won 2 leagues, but they was more dominant without him and he was poor in both CL final's for Juventus.

 

Also another thing the France team in 98 got to the final without him, he was suspended for half the tournament ffs.

 

He was not as important as people claim, sure he was great in the final but other than that he hardly figured in the whole tournament.

 

in 2000 he was great but it was not like he was alone..... Djorkaeff, Henry, Trezeguet, Deschamps, Vieira etc etc and the defence was bonafied World Class he was hardly alone.

 

Yes it's true Zidane is not the only one to blame for a team not coming together, but he's hardly blameless either......

 

If a team cannot come together than that's no one's fault but the players and that includes Zidane, if i remember correctly Raul was very outspoken back then against Zidane, Ronaldo, Figo and others.....

 

It's not like Zidane was the quiet boy in the corner surrounded by bullies he was just as responsible for team spirit as anyone at Real.

 

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

You can analyse who won what and who with but Alan Shearer won jack shit yet is undeniably the best centre-forward the Premier League has seen.

 

My point... Zidane not winning lots of La Ligas and CLs with Real shouldn't even come into it when judging him purely on his footballing ability which alone, marked him out as one of the best.

 

As for nominations....

 

How about Dennis Bergkamp? Roy Keane? Paul Ince? Robert Pires?

 

Or my own personal choice, Paul Scholes?

[Village Idiot]

Paul Scholes could be interesting, indeed.

 

My biggest criticism of Zidane is that he was too much of a big game player, and not consistent throughout a season. One of the things that set Cronaldo or Messi way above him is that they are there for their teams if they are playing Manchester United or UD Levante. I saw Zidane sleepwalk through way too many La Liga games while Raúl or Ronaldo did the business, and then turn it on in the glamour ties.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Zidane had something that few possess, even the likes of Messi and the current Ronaldo. He possessed a natural grace about his game that perhaps only Maradona from the players I've seen, had. Messi is obviously the best player the game has seen since Maradona and some would argue of all-time, and Ronaldo is just a machine, but neither has the grace and finesse if you like of Zidane who was a truly glorious player to watch whenhe wasn't doing anything much. Ronaldo's stepovers and tricks are great and all, but Zidane could beat a man just by dropping his shoulder or by side stepping the ball, all with ease and that grace that made him stand out.

 

By the way, in full flight, Thierry Henry had that same kind of grace and finesse. He too was another beautiful player to watch. Gazza had that way of moving the ball and beating his man like Zidane without the need for stepovers, tricks and flicks etc. ala Ronaldo and Ronaldinho. Messi can do it was well due to his incredible quick feet, speed of thought and movement all in one.

 

Back to Zidane... call me crazy but I'd pick him for my team ahead of Messis and Ronaldo and for me he ranks as the best footballer I've ever seen live. There has been no-one like him in the game since and probably never will be.

 

Kaka threatened but he for me was always the Brazilian Lampard with a bit more flair.

 

That comment has left me incredulous. Nothing against Lampard as he's always done what he's done to the highest standard and you know what you're going to get from him.

 

Technique and natural ability wise Kaka was on a different level to him. He was a fantastic playmaker before injuries took their toll. A completely different player to Lampard as well in all honesty.

 

I just knew you would pipe up.

 

Seriously, your opinion means fuck all when you claim Paul McGrath is the best defender you've seen based on wait for it.... reading his fucking autobiography!

 

I stand by my comment, he threatened to break into that genuine era spanning world-class bracket but didn't quite make it for whatever reasons. The Lampard comparison wasn't a fully serious one, just that both are attacking midfielders who got goals and created goals.

 

I love how mentioning any English player alongside any top foreign player is met with incredulity by the way.

 

For the record, Frank Lampard has been one of the world's best midfielders for a decade now, a genuine world-class player. Not era spanning like Zidane, Messi, Ronaldos et al but easily up there with any of HIS generation, Kaka included.

 

In my own opinion of course...

[nuneaton]

paul mcgrath cant write

[Mole_Toonfan]

Paul Scholes could be interesting, indeed.

 

My biggest criticism of Zidane is that he was too much of a big game player, and not consistent throughout a season. One of the things that set Cronaldo or Messi way above him is that they are there for their teams if they are playing Manchester United or UD Levante. I saw Zidane sleepwalk through way too many La Liga games while Raúl or Ronaldo did the business, and then turn it on in the glamour ties.

 

Yeah that's how i feel, he's as talented as any player in history but talent and ability is nowhere near enough for me to rate him above any random player.

 

Consistency is more important to me than talent ever will be.

 

Which is why i rate Xavi and Pirlo above him, different players sure but they combined god given talents with consistency which i felt Zidane failed to do.

 

I also prefer to rate players on club performances rather than international performances because that shows real consistency against the very best every year rather than turning up against the  2 or 3 really great teams once every 4 years.

 

While we are on the discussion of French AM's i'd like to nominate Michel Platini i never had the opportunity to see him in his prime and would love to see the opinions of people who did..... i know a lot of people who thought he was better than Zidane.

[Incognito]

Zidane had something that few possess, even the likes of Messi and the current Ronaldo. He possessed a natural grace about his game that perhaps only Maradona from the players I've seen, had. Messi is obviously the best player the game has seen since Maradona and some would argue of all-time, and Ronaldo is just a machine, but neither has the grace and finesse if you like of Zidane who was a truly glorious player to watch whenhe wasn't doing anything much. Ronaldo's stepovers and tricks are great and all, but Zidane could beat a man just by dropping his shoulder or by side stepping the ball, all with ease and that grace that made him stand out.

 

By the way, in full flight, Thierry Henry had that same kind of grace and finesse. He too was another beautiful player to watch. Gazza had that way of moving the ball and beating his man like Zidane without the need for stepovers, tricks and flicks etc. ala Ronaldo and Ronaldinho. Messi can do it was well due to his incredible quick feet, speed of thought and movement all in one.

 

Back to Zidane... call me crazy but I'd pick him for my team ahead of Messis and Ronaldo and for me he ranks as the best footballer I've ever seen live. There has been no-one like him in the game since and probably never will be.

 

Kaka threatened but he for me was always the Brazilian Lampard with a bit more flair.

 

That comment has left me incredulous. Nothing against Lampard as he's always done what he's done to the highest standard and you know what you're going to get from him.

 

Technique and natural ability wise Kaka was on a different level to him. He was a fantastic playmaker before injuries took their toll. A completely different player to Lampard as well in all honesty.

 

I just knew you would pipe up.

 

Seriously, your opinion means fuck all when you claim Paul McGrath is the best defender you've seen based on wait for it.... reading his fucking autobiography!

 

I stand by my comment, he threatened to break into that genuine era spanning world-class bracket but didn't quite make it for whatever reasons. The Lampard comparison wasn't a fully serious one, just that both are attacking midfielders who got goals and created goals.

 

I love how mentioning any English player alongside any top foreign player is met with incredulity by the way.

 

For the record, Frank Lampard has been one of the world's best midfielders for a decade now, a genuine world-class player. Not era spanning like Zidane, Messi, Ronaldos et al but easily up there with any of HIS generation, Kaka included.

 

In my own opinion of course...

 

I've been watching football since 1972 and McGrath is the best defender I've seen.

[Tooj]

Zidane had something that few possess, even the likes of Messi and the current Ronaldo. He possessed a natural grace about his game that perhaps only Maradona from the players I've seen, had. Messi is obviously the best player the game has seen since Maradona and some would argue of all-time, and Ronaldo is just a machine, but neither has the grace and finesse if you like of Zidane who was a truly glorious player to watch whenhe wasn't doing anything much. Ronaldo's stepovers and tricks are great and all, but Zidane could beat a man just by dropping his shoulder or by side stepping the ball, all with ease and that grace that made him stand out.

 

By the way, in full flight, Thierry Henry had that same kind of grace and finesse. He too was another beautiful player to watch. Gazza had that way of moving the ball and beating his man like Zidane without the need for stepovers, tricks and flicks etc. ala Ronaldo and Ronaldinho. Messi can do it was well due to his incredible quick feet, speed of thought and movement all in one.

 

Back to Zidane... call me crazy but I'd pick him for my team ahead of Messis and Ronaldo and for me he ranks as the best footballer I've ever seen live. There has been no-one like him in the game since and probably never will be.

 

Kaka threatened but he for me was always the Brazilian Lampard with a bit more flair.

 

That comment has left me incredulous. Nothing against Lampard as he's always done what he's done to the highest standard and you know what you're going to get from him.

 

Technique and natural ability wise Kaka was on a different level to him. He was a fantastic playmaker before injuries took their toll. A completely different player to Lampard as well in all honesty.

 

I just knew you would pipe up.

 

Seriously, your opinion means fuck all when you claim Paul McGrath is the best defender you've seen based on wait for it.... reading his fucking autobiography!

 

I stand by my comment, he threatened to break into that genuine era spanning world-class bracket but didn't quite make it for whatever reasons. The Lampard comparison wasn't a fully serious one, just that both are attacking midfielders who got goals and created goals.

 

I love how mentioning any English player alongside any top foreign player is met with incredulity by the way.

 

For the record, Frank Lampard has been one of the world's best midfielders for a decade now, a genuine world-class player. Not era spanning like Zidane, Messi, Ronaldos et al but easily up there with any of HIS generation, Kaka included.

 

In my own opinion of course...

 

You're talking utter drivel once again.

 

Honestly your limited knowledge and insular view on foreign footballers has been exposed time and time again on here.

 

Mentioning any English player alongside a top foreign player isn't incredulous at all. I'm sure if you asked anybody their opinion on somebody like Ashley Cole they would tell you he has been a world class player and the world's best left-back for the past decade or so.

 

Lampard has never been up there with the best of his era and this is somebody that rates him.

[Guest BooBoo]

Catts for me, like.

[Tooj]

HTT rates Shearer higher than Ronaldo (who apparently I never watched in his prime either), that's all you need to know about his opinion on foreign footballers.

[Flip]

Kaka threatened but he for me was always the Brazilian Lampard with a bit more flair.

 

 

Another one for the HTT scrapbook.

 

5 years ago Kaka was the best player in the world and single handedly won Milan the champions league.  It's an insult to put him in the same bracket as Lampard.

 

Single handidly with Seedorf, Pirlo, Shevchenko, Maldini etc.

 

He was never a true playmaker more of a forward/goal threat so HTT isn't that wrong. Same with Lampard, being a goal threat was his prime attribute.

 

Kaka was the best player in that team by a mile. Maldini was reaching his past, Seedorf had couple good games that season but wasnt a very consistent player anymore. And Kaka was much more than a goalthreat. Kaka was a true playmaker in the sense he had vision few people have. If anything thats the part of his game which he still has and which earns him games for Real. He has that ability to think couple of steps ahead of players and he was instrumental for that Milan side. He was able to not only push forward with his immense speed and technique, but his vision opened up plays for that side. Not saying he won it single handedly, but I dont agree saying he wasn't a true playmaker. He just wasn't the typical number 10 spreading balls around, but he sure was a playmaker.

[ohmelads]

Real Madrid were never going to have the team spirit and understanding under the Galacticos era of mega-bucks signings and a revolving door of managers as Barcelona, whose players have grown up schooled in the Barca way of playing and have known each other for a decade or more. It's ridiculous to blame Zidane for this. Try to imagine Zidane, Figo and Ronaldo had grown up together since they were kids, through all the Real Madrid youth teams and had been playing together for 10 years and then you might have a comparison with the current Barcelona side.

 

It is hardly Zidane's fault that Real Madrid was run the way it was, that no manager ever got any time, that players were bought over the manager's head and that more and more superstars with their own egos were coming in every summer. Zidane ended his club days playing alongside a fading David Beckham for example as well as Thomas Gravesen! Each summer a new manager would change everything around, as well as Gravesen and Beckham he was playing with a load of Brazilians such as Cicinho, Baptista and Robinho. It's no surprise the teamwork wasn't there. Even at the age of 35, in the final days of his career, Zidane dragged a poor France team to the Euro final, outshining every midfielder in the tournament, including against Spain and Brazil. It seems his headbutt in the final seems to have overshadowed his performances in people's memory. He rightly goes down as one of the best midfielders ever.